R.I.P. - U.S. Open

[Williebetmore]

This is an Open event and all players should be treated equally with the exception of the past champions. ...

JustPlay,
Your position illustrates the dilemma: does the seeding process promote equality (making the path to the finals of comparatively equal difficulty for all players) or does the seeding process promote inequality (by eliminating the blind draw)?

My opinion is that the seeding process HELPS promote equality and is GREAT for the fans; it also helps promote integrity in the game. Do we really want an Open champion who played 7 or 8 hacks to fluke his way to the title?? If players are hoping to sneak into the money by lucking into a couple of easy matches (like I am), then too bad for them (and me). Anyone who realistically is hoping to make money playing in the U.S. Open is probably good enough to be seeded (in which case they will like the seeding). I think it would be great to play Efren in the first round, and many of the thrill-seeking average players may feel the same way.

As you can tell I'm also in favor of allowing hacks like me to pay to play. We aren't damaging the equipment (at least not much), and we add to the pot.

 

[BradyBehrman]

Not To worry, nothing has changed. The Open is Open to all men. The event is Dual Sanctioned with the UPA and the WPA. The UPA is a governing body for pool in the states and WPA is the world. My father expects a full field. We allready have about 24 pool rooms holding qualifiers which is triple what we had last year and we are still early. I have sent out 30-40 Invitations for foreign players so they can attend and have their passport approved, and once again we are still early. We typically have 10 or 12 invites.

Dual sanctioning of this event will only add value to the event, not only in financial numbers but the overall event.

PLAYERS: If you are not a member of the UPA and win the event you will not be recognized by their points unless you pay the member fee which you can pay after the event.

IF You want to play, Sign Up Soon as the event will be limited to 256 and will not exceed. IF You want VIP Seats, Get them while they last.

As far as seeding, my father has always done seeding and recognized organizations such as WPA, UPA, PBT, SENIORS, etc. as well as Past Champions. Once again, nothing has changed other then the event growing and excitement rising. We'll see you here in Chesapeake, Virginia Sept 19-25. My dad is seeding the top 16 of both the UPA and WPA.

U.S.Open web Site: http://www.usopen9ballchampionships.com

Thanks,
Brady Behrman

 

[Ruthless]

It has been and still is open to anyone with the entry fee as far as I know. But I trashed the info soon as UPA and seeding came up.

It would be good if you drew Efren first round if it was fate and done in a democratic draw.

It's not about the players or sport anymore, it's like that movie "It's All About The Benjamins!" and the players are a tool in which to aquire them.

 

[Blackjack]

Atleast there were 29yrs of a true U.S. "Open" in which all players had an equal chance in the event.

They still do.

With the involvement of the U.P.A. and the "seeding of players" the event is now only a commercial farce.

In what way? Please elaborate.

Half of the former winners of this event would not have a title now in their portfolio if it had allways been run under this "make sure the top players get in the $$" format.

All of the former winners of the Open had an equal chance but they also earned the title of US Open Champion. I fail to see where this will not be the case this year.

This is not what the "former" U.S. Open meant to any unranked players wanting a fair chance to compete in an "equal opportunity" event on all levels, including the important fair draw

Very Sad for an event that has allways been known as the crown jewel until now.

This is where I have a problem with your initial post. First of all, a lot of hard work went into bringing the UPA and the US Open back together again. Personal differences were put aside for the good of the game and to promote the most pretigious event in our sport's history. Regardless of your personal feelings towards the format, at least give it time to play itself out before you title your post, R.I.P. US Open. For the past few years, the split between Barry Behrman and The UPA has been a hot topic of conversation, and most everybody wanted the situation to be reconciled in some way. Now that the two have joined forces, there are still people that want to live and wallow in the controversy of the past. Even if you know Charlie Williams, and you have talked with him extensively, Charlie Williams is not "The UPA". He is founder of Dragon Promotions and former President of the UPA. Charlie made a lot of mistakes early on, and has done his best to repair some of the damage. That also meant stepping down for a while.

While I am in no danger of winning the US Open, I will compete in it and support it 100% because it is the greatest event our game has. If the rules should change somewhere down the road and they say you must qualify, I guess I'll have to qualify. I have no problem with seeding past Champions (Legends) such as David Howard, Mike Sigel, Mike LeBron, Buddy Hall, Allen Hopkins, Tommy Kennedy and Earl Strickland, nor do I have a probelm with the seeding UPA Players No matter who you play, or when you play them, you still have to win.

In closing, I would like to say that if you have never been to the Open, you are missing out on something very special. It's a lot of fun to be there as a player and as a spectator. I would ask that everybody support this event to make it a success.

 

[wahcheck]

The New Us Open

They still do.



In what way? Please elaborate.



All of the former winners of the Open had an equal chance but they also earned the title of US Open Champion. I fail to see where this will not be the case this year.




This is where I have a problem with your initial post. First of all, a lot of hard work went into bringing the UPA and the US Open back together again. Personal differences were put aside for the good of the game and to promote the most pretigious event in our sport's history. Regardless of your personal feelings towards the format, at least give it time to play itself out before you title your post, R.I.P. US Open. For the past few years, the split between Barry Behrman and The UPA has been a hot topic of conversation, and most everybody wanted the situation to be reconciled in some way. Now that the two have joined forces, there are still people that want to live and wallow in the controversy of the past. Even if you know Charlie Williams, and you have talked with him extensively, Charlie Williams is not "The UPA". He is founder of Dragon Promotions and former President of the UPA. Charlie made a lot of mistakes early on, and has done his best to repair some of the damage. That also meant stepping down for a while.

While I am in no danger of winning the US Open, I will compete in it and support it 100% because it is the greatest event our game has. If the rules should change somewhere down the road and they say you must qualify, I guess I'll have to qualify. I have no problem with seeding past Champions (Legends) such as David Howard, Mike Sigel, Mike LeBron, Buddy Hall, Allen Hopkins, Tommy Kennedy and Earl Strickland, nor do I have a probelm with the seeding UPA Players No matter who you play, or when you play them, you still have to win.

In closing, I would like to say that if you have never been to the Open, you are missing out on something very special. It's a lot of fun to be there as a player and as a spectator. I would ask that everybody support this event to make it a success.

As usual, Blackjack, your voice of reason is welcome in another post....I asked earlier whether a player HAD to join the UPA prior to playing in this year's US OPEN and was led to believe (YES)....but after reading Mr.Behrman's post....it seems not ......

 

[BradyBehrman]

As usual, Blackjack, your voice of reason is welcome in another post....I asked earlier whether a player HAD to join the UPA prior to playing in this year's US OPEN and was led to believe (YES)....but after reading Mr.Behrman's post....it seems not ......

Correct, YOU DON'T HAVE to be a member of ANY organization to play in the U.S.Open 9-Ball Championships.

Thanks,
Brady

 

[JustPlay]

JustPlay,
Your position illustrates the dilemma: does the seeding process promote equality (making the path to the finals of comparatively equal difficulty for all players) or does the seeding process promote inequality (by eliminating the blind draw)?

My opinion is that the seeding process HELPS promote equality and is GREAT for the fans; it also helps promote integrity in the game. Do we really want an Open champion who played 7 or 8 hacks to fluke his way to the title?? If players are hoping to sneak into the money by lucking into a couple of easy matches (like I am), then too bad for them (and me). Anyone who realistically is hoping to make money playing in the U.S. Open is probably good enough to be seeded (in which case they will like the seeding). I think it would be great to play Efren in the first round, and many of the thrill-seeking average players may feel the same way.

As you can tell I'm also in favor of allowing hacks like me to pay to play. We aren't damaging the equipment (at least not much), and we add to the pot.

The whole entire point of "seeding" players is that the "pro" players play the "hacks" in the early rounds. Like I said before, someone, please make a list of those players who pay the $500 entry fee, about $300+ for their hotel stay, $100+ in gas and $100 in food for a total of about $1000 just to play in the US Open and who are the "hacks" as it has been stated so often, so we can weed these wannabe players out, so every rack and every shot is nothing but the upmost quality! I figure we can weed out about 200 of the potential 256 slated to play in the open, thats about $200,000 not spent participating in the US Open....(at mimium, please make a list of 50...)

 

[Ruthless]

Blackjack - My first open was in the 80's and have played several since. I never expected to win either, but had a good time at all. In my memory the UPA mistakes that I was personally involved in will never go away and the bad taste will allways be associated with that name.

If it all wasn't financial the UPA would still be in right field (period).

All those other questions were answered in later posts.

I do wish you well

 

[BradyBehrman]

The whole entire point of "seeding" players is that the "pro" players play the "hacks" in the early rounds. Like I said before, someone, please make a list of those players who pay the $500 entry fee, about $300+ for their hotel stay, $100+ in gas and $100 in food for a total of about $1000 just to play in the US Open and who are the "hacks" as it has been stated so often, so we can weed these wannabe players out, so every rack and every shot is nothing but the upmost quality! I figure we can weed out about 200 of the potential 256 slated to play in the open, thats about $200,000 not spent participating in the US Open....(at mimium, please make a list of 50...)

The U.S.Open breeds Champions. I would venture to say that there are probally be 100+ Players that can WIN this event. It's amazing, about half of the invites I have drawn up for foreign players were players that I have never heard of but i bet they "Got Game".

 

[Coop1701]

Grid position based on qualifying is a form of seeding. Also, the new end of season points system uses seeding based on points accumulated.

-djb

That's a stretch, but I'll give you that one.

 

[wahcheck]

The whole entire point of "seeding" players is that the "pro" players play the "hacks" in the early rounds. Like I said before, someone, please make a list of those players who pay the $500 entry fee, about $300+ for their hotel stay, $100+ in gas and $100 in food for a total of about $1000 just to play in the US Open and who are the "hacks" as it has been stated so often, so we can weed these wannabe players out, so every rack and every shot is nothing but the upmost quality! I figure we can weed out about 200 of the potential 256 slated to play in the open, thats about $200,000 not spent participating in the US Open....(at mimium, please make a list of 50...)

I believe this is a really good point...with the admitted demise of the sport of Pool (not measuring up to other pro sports in prominence and money) the prospect for "hacks" or fans or just ordinary pool players to enter a tournament and play with professional level name players has got to be such a positive and attractive opportunity that is unseen and unavailable in other sports...as well as supporting a great event and ensuring a decent-sized prize at the end of the tournament to the winner....It also gives everyman the dream of being a US OPEN CHAMPION by just entering and participating..

 

[JAM]

Seeding!

First and foremost, I agree that it is a good thing that the U.S. Open promoter(s) and the "governing body of men's professional pool" have buried the hatchet!

As far as the seeding, the irony is that, in fact, the last two U.S. Opens, 2003 and 2004, utilized the UPA ranking for its seeding both years, even though it was whispered in the rumor mill that a few UPA members, but not all, did not attend because they were boycotting this event. As is the tradition of every single U.S. Open, the past U.S. Open winners are granted a free entry fee and a seed.

Where I do have a problem with the seeding is the seniors tour. What seniors tour? How many events are on the seniors tour? The only seniors tournament I am aware of is the one which occurred in Florida, a one-time event. When the U.S. Open seeds players like white-haired Charlie from North Carolina -- and I do like Charlie a bunch -- this doesn't make one bit of sense. Of course, David Bollman, the house pro at Q-Masters, the pool room owned by the U.S. Open promoter, will be seeded. I'm at a loss as to why any player over the age of 50 who competed in one event a year should be entitled to a seed at the U.S. Open. I'm open to hear the reasoning, though, as it may be something that I am not familiar with.

As far as attendance goes at the U.S. Open, this is the premier event of the year for most pool players, pool enthusiasts, fans, and railbirds like me. The venue is superb, and each year the Chesapeake Conference Center gets better and better. I personally like the way they had the seats set up last year, and I cannot leave without buying a few U.S. Open items, like a baseball cap, a T-shirt, and a polo shirt with the U.S. Open logo on it.

Whether the U.S. Open is sanctioned by the UPA or not, it ain't going to change the way it has been run in previous years (IMO). It will still be pool at its finest, and the championship title is up for grabs. If it's going to be anything like the BCA Open which is in progress at this time, it is anybody's guess as to who will win.

JAM

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Not To worry, nothing has changed. The Open is Open to all men. The event is Dual Sanctioned with the UPA and the WPA. The UPA is a governing body for pool in the states and WPA is the world. My father expects a full field. We allready have about 24 pool rooms holding qualifiers which is triple what we had last year and we are still early. I have sent out 30-40 Invitations for foreign players so they can attend and have their passport approved, and once again we are still early. We typically have 10 or 12 invites.

Dual sanctioning of this event will only add value to the event, not only in financial numbers but the overall event.

PLAYERS: If you are not a member of the UPA and win the event you will not be recognized by their points unless you pay the member fee which you can pay after the event.

IF You want to play, Sign Up Soon as the event will be limited to 256 and will not exceed. IF You want VIP Seats, Get them while they last.

As far as seeding, my father has always done seeding and recognized organizations such as WPA, UPA, PBT, SENIORS, etc. as well as Past Champions. Once again, nothing has changed other then the event growing and excitement rising. We'll see you here in Chesapeake, Virginia Sept 19-25. My dad is seeding the top 16 of both the UPA and WPA.

U.S.Open web Site: http://www.usopen9ballchampionships.com

Thanks,
Brady Behrman

Mr. Behrman, thanks for providing the details in this thread. It really is much appreciated.

I would like to mention to others that the US Open has always been a HUGE event. No matter what seeding is done, there are always plenty of unseeded great players in the field. Yes, you're not going to have Reyes v. Parica early in the tournament but there's always a chance for MANY other great first round match-ups. We needn't forget, the men's field is stacked!

As for the "Post and Play" policy, I think it's great. For starters, it generates revenue and gives those who have no desire to tour the country a chance to play in one of the most prestigious events of the year. Yes, you're always going to have a handful of players that aren't representative of the quality of men's professional pool but I assure you, expect to draw one of those players and you'll find them few and far between. Even the seeded players run the risk of drawing a great player who happens to fall under the radar.

I've never been there and hopefully, assuming the time off work is available and life throws me no curveballs, I'll be there this time around. No matter what a single person may think of this event, the parameters are similar to the way it has always been. Its these same parameters that make the US Open so popular and prestigious.

 

[Ruthless]

Brady - Don't take me wrong about this.

I think your dad's a great guy and I even stuck up for him in some of the hardest times. I also heard him say that this would never happen.

But the saying of never say never rings true again.

 

[BradyBehrman]

Brady - Don't take me wrong about this.

I think your dad's a great guy and I even stuck up for him in some of the hardest times. I also heard him say that this would never happen.

But the saying of never say never rings true again.

What does his past have to do with the seeding of players?

Nothing Changed

HE RUNS THE SHOW, NO OTHER GROUP OR INDIVIDUALS.

Brady

 

[Ruthless]

The rules of play and rules of who is seeded have changed the way things read with the UPA involvement.

I can't even guess how many contract changes were involved if the UPA contract for that was written anything like their one sided player agreement.

I wish you well.

 

[bruin70]

Atleast there were 29yrs of a true U.S. "Open" in which all players had an equal chance in the event.

With the involvement of the U.P.A. and the "seeding of players" the event is now only a commercial farce.

Half of the former winners of this event would not have a title now in their portfolio if it had allways been run under this "make sure the top players get in the $$" format.

This is not what the "former" U.S. Open meant to any unranked players wanting a fair chance to compete in an "equal opportunity" event on all levels, including the important fair draw.

Very Sad for an event that has allways been known as the crown jewel until now.

rip and GOOD RIDDENCE. the problem with pool is that it's always been unstructured. i wouldn't pay to see 100 no names(i don't care how good they are. which is another issue altogether because pool should have a tougher entry level than the possibility of some shmoe upsetting a top ranked player). you should have to earn your way into the event rather than only having to pay entry fee.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Where I do have a problem with the seeding is the seniors tour. What seniors tour? How many events are on the seniors tour? The only seniors tournament I am aware of is the one which occurred in Florida, a one-time event. When the U.S. Open seeds players like white-haired Charlie from North Carolina -- and I do like Charlie a bunch -- this doesn't make one bit of sense. Of course, David Bollman, the house pro at Q-Masters, the pool room owned by the U.S. Open promoter, will be seeded. I'm at a loss as to why any player over the age of 50 who competed in one event a year should be entitled to a seed at the U.S. Open. I'm open to hear the reasoning, though, as it may be something that I am not familiar with.

JAM

I agree about the 'senirors' tour comments and their seeding.
Maybe if they were labeled 'Legends' rather than 'seniors' and that they've earned the respect to warrent a 'seed' would be easier to understand.

IMO.. first on the list would be Keith. He should have been included last year and the year befor on the players that recieved a 'seed'.

If there is a full field..(256 players)the only seeds being handed out will be making sure the top 64 players are in different 1st round brackets. That's not that much of seed IMO.

 

[jjinfla]

It seems to me that the US Open has a very good chance of filling up this year - having 256 players. How often has that happened in the past? If that becomes the norm in the future then they would have to come up with some kind of qualifying system. Or invitational system. But until that happens it is Open to everyone.

But it is a Behrman enterprise and as such he gets to set the rules.

It is a financial enterprise too, and to ensure its financial success, seeding is necessary. Both to entice the top players to play and to have them around at the end for the paying customers. And for TV if the finals are televised.

Check the BCA brackets and you will see that both the men and the women were seeded.

Like the UPA or not, they do have a strong contingent of players that will now be playing in the US Open again and I believe that that will be good for professional pool.

I think it is time to give Robert Lipson and the UPA a chance. This year can very well be the turning point for Professional pool. If enough fans show up then maybe next year the pros will receive a percentage of the gate and will actually be paid to appear. Now that is the true definition of a professional - one who is paid to perform. And actually Barry does pay some players to appear. The past winners have their entry fees waived which is like paying them $500.

And yes, it is all about money, but then isn't everything?

I really hope Barry makes a ton of money this year.

Jake

 

[JAM]

I agree about the 'seniors' tour comments and their seeding. Maybe if they were labeled 'Legends' rather than 'seniors' and that they've earned the respect to warrent a 'seed' would be easier to understand...

The first time I had EVER learned of the seniors tour seeding at the U.S. Open was last year.

If seeds are granted to a person of legendary status, like One-Pocket Phenom Marshall "The Squirrel" Tucker as an example, then I would think they would refer to these kind of seeds a "U.S. Open Promoter wild card" seeds.

One of Carolina's finest, Charlie a really nice person. I'm not sure he's a legend, but he's one of my favorite people, seeded or not seeded at the U.S. Open.

JAM