R.I.P. - U.S. Open

Money in Pool

Getting Pool into the Olympics is a first step.
Getting Pool televised nationally on a pay-per-view basis is another step.
Getting Junior leagues established in all medium and large cities is another.
(also would like to see billiards as a sport in High schools).
Establishing scholarship money for college for Junior Players (locally & natnly)
Getting big time sponsors willing to put some money is another.
Establish Semi-Pro leagues that have good paybacks for the people that
aren't Pro level, but play real well, are a devoted Poolplayer, and many
count on the money from Pool to help subsidize their income.

Gaining popularity, more participation, and expanding a fan base, along
with getting more money into major events is what has to be done before
Pool will have enough money in it.

Pool is a good sport, one in which men and women can compete equally,
one that teaches you about the sport, and many lessons that can be used
in everyday life in making decisions about your own life.

I urge everyone that loves the sport to support Billiards all they can in
everyway they can to help establish some of the guidelines mentioned
above for helping Pool. Email to Olympics committees, ESPN or other
channels that show Pool matches and let them know we want more.

And I think this is one sport that wouldn't have to worry about
steroid use .... lol
 
JDB said:
I have to agree with JustPlay here...

The "hacks" paying their entry fees make a hell of a lot more for the "professionals" than the fans do.

I love playing, but I suck... but I would have no problem paying $500 to play in the US Open just to play some of the professionals.

Yes, there should be more money in pool so they don't allow me (or people like me) in; however there's not. Therefore, you should be happy that so many hacks fund the US Open. If they didn't, the US Open would be a much smaller tournament for everyone (fans and professionals).



Poker has such big payout for one reason only- HIGH ENTRY FEES and poker has no "added" money and no added money to any of its tournaments from sponsors. But they still have an extrodinary tournouts. If VAPOOLPLAYER wants "hacks" (VA, I am still waiting for the list of hacks you keep mentioning) out of "pro" pool tournaments, then raise the entry fees to $5000+, I am sure any player who questions their game just a little will not pay that kind of money to play. What do you think.


I find it interesting that their are 5 different cable and local networks showing Poker on tv. And all we get is trick shot magic!

The participants in poker actually provide the BIG DOLLAR PAYOUTS in poker. Maybe the people who host tournaments should consider this.

If and when the US Open starts to have qualifers, like you have mentioned they should, sponsorship better start putting in more money to keep the payouts the same or raise the entry fees like I suggest they do.


Vapoolplayer, I would like to see pool become big on TV and around the country and out of the hundreds of top professional pool players for the past 30 years, only and I mean only have a small handfull of these players (current and retired) have ever promoted the game to the public, potential sponsors and room owners across the country. Unfortunity, professional pool has always suffered from selfishness. This is a fact not a matter of my attitude, DUDE!

When was the last time, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Johnny Archer and a host of other Professional pool players promoted, lobbied, got air time on ESPN or lend their names to professional pool today? Never! They only looked out for themselves ( and I don't blame them to a certain degree either) and what they could get out of the game....
 
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Scott,
You make some great some points, however many of the issues you have addressed have been addressed before and I will explain why.

Getting Pool into the Olympics is a first step.

Let's look at why the game of pool has failed to get into the Olympics. First of all, this goal is not on anybody's "Monday Morning List". We are a sport that is relying on its own resources and we have shut ourselves off from attracting fans and support outside our very small fan base. We haven't sold the Olympics on pool, and until this is made a priority, we never will. I've said it before... we are so busy trying to win battles from within our sport and our industry that we often get overlooked and ignored. When our industry and our sport gets over itself and stops creating internal strife, then we will get somewhere.

Getting Pool televised nationally on a pay-per-view basis is another step.

This is a ridiculous idea. I am a big supporter of pool, and even I wouldnt pay to watch it on PPV - and I am not alone. The problem we will run into with that is low buy rates. Its not cheap to make PPV's happen and it is money that is better spent elsewhere within our industry.

Getting Junior leagues established in all medium and large cities is another.
(also would like to see billiards as a sport in High schools).

This is a great idea, but we need to follow through on our image campaign. The image campaign is not working at all. Our sport, our game is overrun with people that take, take, and take some more. Very few are willing to give back to the communities or stick their hand in their hand in their pocket or do anything UNLESS they get a return on it. They always look to see what's in it for them. The attitude must be "What's in it for pool?" Until that changes, our sport will have its image and deservedly so. You wont see it taught in high schools because our sports image is linked directly to delinquency because that is all people hear about. I think organizing fuindraisers (like the Basketball fundraiser in Jacksonville next wedensday in Conjunction with the UPA Predator Florida Open) is a step in the right direction. Fund raisers are free positive publicity for sport and our players. IN doing so, we also have to change our appearance. If the media comes to cover our fundraisers and we raise $5000 for charity, yet on the opposite side fo teh room there is a $20,000 stakes game going on, what do you think will make the evening news? If we want respect, we must act and dress like we deserve it.

Establishing scholarship money for college for Junior Players (locally & natnly)

Once again... I cover that above... we will not be marketable to anybody until our images is changed... it won't happen overnight.

Getting big time sponsors willing to put some money is another.

Let me dispell this myth for the one millionth time: THE MONEY IS THERE. The busineses that make up our industry are making money hand over fist. Look at the Asian market for pool right now. It's phenomenal. Theses corporations could care less about professional pool in north america because like it or not, this is not where they make their money. You are asking them to make a big investment with little or no return. There is nothing in it for them and budget it accordingly.

Establish Semi-Pro leagues that have good paybacks for the people that
aren't Pro level, but play real well, are a devoted Poolplayer, and many
count on the money from Pool to help subsidize their income.

Understand that when you do this, you have to cut a piece of the pie (total monies) to finance it. Viking is one of teh only companies that I know f that is supporting the pro and semi pro game at every opportunity. For the most part, the rest of the industry picks and chooses their sponsorship. These corporations are made up of executive boards, and the money invested must show a return. Its business. Their company (pick one) is in business to make money for themselves, not pool players. In return, we must honestly look at what theses players (amateur - semi pro) are doing to support those companies. The point is, vendors are not making money at even some of the better organized and better publicized events that are put on for these players. This is the heart of the problem with that issue. Money is gambled, yet rarely spent at these venues. Until that changes, things will remain teh same.

Gaining popularity, more participation, and expanding a fan base, along
with getting more money into major events is what has to be done before
Pool will have enough money in it.

Like I said, THE MONEY IS THERE. Believe me, its there. The companies making that money have short arms and deep pockets when it comes to promoting professional pool. As far as gaining popularity and a fan base, we can't sell pool to each other, nevermind selling outside our demographic. I have asked everybody I have spoken to within the industry the same question:

"Does golf sell Tiger Woods, or does Tiger Woods sell golf?"

The correct answer is both. Most of Tiger's endorsements have nothing to do with promoting a tournament, or a golf product. They sell the game through his image and his mass appeal, to sell cars, or whatever, and he plays golf while he endorses the products.

As far as participation goes... cobine the APA, BCA, and TAP league systems with the participation on the viking and fury tours and the numbers are staggering. The particpation is there, the support or the motivation to push our game to the next level is not there. Many league players have limited kowledge of professional pool.


Pool is a good sport, one in which men and women can compete equally,
one that teaches you about the sport, and many lessons that can be used
in everyday life in making decisions about your own life.

Yet our image sucks. Who would want to emulate some of our stereotypical knuckleheads that are in our sport for greed and nothing else? This is the major reason we are not taken seriously. We dont take ourselves seriously so why should anybody else?


I urge everyone that loves the sport to support Billiards all they can in
everyway they can to help establish some of the guidelines mentioned
above for helping Pool. Email to Olympics committees, ESPN or other
channels that show Pool matches and let them know we want more.

The rah rah stuff isnt going to work. Its about what we can do for ESPN, or what we can do to make more money for our sport. EVery approach in the past has tried to change our sport from the bottom up. I suggest we start at the top and work our way down. We have to understand that the BCA no longer is the governing body of pool. It hasn't been for a long time. They are an organized group for businesses within our industry. Besides the BCA Tournament every year, they are very rarely involved in professional pool. Professional pool needs its own organization that can work in conjunction with the BCA. The UPA is a great place to start. It is organized and established within the industry, yet there are some that are intent on tearing the UPA to shreds. My suggestion is to take that animosity and the energy that comes with it and join forces to make a difference in our sport. The UPA will grow and become more organized as it grows. As it grows in numbers and support, it will become stronger. If we divide the sport and start a separate tour to compete with the UPA, we will continue to shoot ourselves in the behind.

And I think this is one sport that wouldn't have to worry about
steroid use .... lol

Im glad you brought that up... Vince McMahon has been hedged into steroid controversy for years, yet he perseveres with his product because he is a marketing genius. Im not saying we should market our sport after professional wrestling, but we do have characters and we can have the same appeal to our fan base. I guarantee you that on the Mondys that pool is on ESPN, pool gets its butt kicked to Vince McMahon's WWE in the ratings. There is a reason why we are on at that time... ESPN has conceded the ratings for that time slot. Are we to be proud about that? I'm not. We need to stop repeating what doesn't work. We need to look at entities such as golf, bowling, Pride Fighting, wrestling etc.. and look at how they are marketing themselves to prospective fans outside their conventional demographic. We need to have a plan. Winging it isn't working, folks. We need leadership, organization, and above all else, singleness of purpose - or UNITY.
 
you want a list JUSTPLAY.............look at the 04 list.......make a list of the people you have heard of.........the rest are hacks until they prove themselves.........some will eventually be good.........some won't. every pro player out there was a hack at some point and time.........ever future pool player was or still is a hack..........and they should have to qualify to get to the top.

thats why i like the concept of the NUTS so much..........you have to earn your way to the top.........not just enter a tourney.

i'm not taking anything away from anyone that plays in the open, or may go on to win it...........but you should have to qualify to get there.

i think eventually this will happen, and it will only add the prestige of the US OPEN.

will this happen now? hell no, i do agree with you, there is no money yet, but it will be i think, and i think that things are already in motion to turn the sport upside down in the next 10 years.

thanks

VAP
 
Points you made ...

Blackjack ... You made some great points that I agree with.

But administrative organizations have to be supported and the administrators have to be paid for their time and effort.
They also have to have a sharp competent knowledgeable person running it.

Every sport has it knuckleheads, baseball, football, tennis, poker players, etc.
Yes, Pool is known sort of for gambling, but let me tell you, there is a lot
of gambling going on in other sports you never hear about - I personally knew a guy in Houston who made $3,000 to $10,000 a week off of playing doctors, lawyers, and wealthy people in Golf every week. There is lots of hustling going on in every sport..... Some people might just call it American Ingenuity ... lol

Our sport has been fighting the same battles for over 40 years, that I know of
(been playing 43 years myself). We do not have time for an organization
to go from diapers to adult over 15-20 years as most do. You don't need someone like Charlie Williams running the administration, you need a good
manager or executive type running it, and a poolplayer 2nd ... lol

I would do it if they would consider me ... I have 3 degrees, widespread
business experience (24+ years), and a good knowledge of Billiards, and my brother is an attorney (comes in handy at various times ... lol).

As it is though, I am almost (signed contract, just have to have Kay sign it)
the newest tournament director for the new KBP Fury Wheatland Tour,
which will follow tornado alley, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and maybe a couple of more states with an Amateur 9 ball tour, and plan to offer 1 Pocket events if desired.
 
]

Snapshot9 said:
Our sport has been fighting the same battles for over 40 years, that I know of
(been playing 43 years myself). We do not have time for an organization
to go from diapers to adult over 15-20 years as most do. You don't need someone like Charlie Williams running the administration, you need a good
manager or executive type running it, and a poolplayer 2nd ... lol

I would do it if they would consider me ... I have 3 degrees, widespread
business experience (24+ years), and a good knowledge of Billiards, and my brother is an attorney (comes in handy at various times ... lol).

.


well, just take the initiative like charlie did........no one else was doing anything.........so he tried to step up.......i don't mean this as an insult......but seriously, if you think you have what it takes...........step up.

side note: charlie williams isn't running things anymore........the UPA and dragon promotions are both run by people inside and outside the pool world.

thanks

VAP
 
Blackjack ... You made some great points that I agree with.

But administrative organizations have to be supported and the administrators have to be paid for their time and effort.
They also have to have a sharp competent knowledgeable person running it.

To be able to pay them, there must be money, time and energy invested. Our sport is a mess right now. Where do you think this money would come from? I know where it should come from, and it will be a very unpopular thing for me to say, but I'll say it anyway. We can't keep inventing new tours. The money is going in 99 different directions and that is why we are getting nowhere. Having another pro tour like N.U.T.S. will only force the pros to choose sides. In the end, the sport still loses.

Every sport has it knuckleheads, baseball, football, tennis, poker players, etc.
Yes, Pool is known sort of for gambling, but let me tell you, there is a lot
of gambling going on in other sports you never hear about - I personally knew a guy in Houston who made $3,000 to $10,000 a week off of playing doctors, lawyers, and wealthy people in Golf every week. There is lots of hustling going on in every sport..... Some people might just call it American Ingenuity ... lol

lol??? I don't find anything funny about that. Sort of known for gambling? Come on Scott, you know better than that. It's all we're known for. It has its purpose and it has its appeal, but it shouldn't be the main focus.


Our sport has been fighting the same battles for over 40 years, that I know of
(been playing 43 years myself). We do not have time for an organization
to go from diapers to adult over 15-20 years as most do. You don't need someone like Charlie Williams running the administration, you need a good
manager or executive type running it, and a poolplayer 2nd ... lol

First of all, Charlie Williams stepped down as UPA president. Charlie had the courage to start the UPA when nobody else did. He had the vision, the heart, and the determination to make the UPA a respected organization. Did he make mistakes? Of course he did. Will he make more mistakes? You're darn right he will. BUt he got the UPA off the ground. I agree we should get a good manager... Robert Lipson is very well educated, and he is a very well respected business man. I choose him over Don Mackey any day. (BTW... anyone that knows the whereabouts of Donald Mackey.. tell him Blackjack says hi...and that I thank him for proving me right). If I were you Scott, make a few phone calls to people within and around the industry and listen to what they are saying. Nobody is happy, and nobody feels as if they are exceeding their earning potential. Yet... there is a lot of money pouring into our industry. Believe me, the money IS there. We need to quit crying poor. The problem is, the money is going back into individual companies, and nothing is coming the way of professional pool. Thats why I said lets start from the top and work our way down. The money is at the top... not the bottom. Also, the N.U.T.S. is in diapers. They have no established pro tour to speak of at this time. They have no track record. They will be starting out from scratch with their system. You just said we dont have time for that. I agree.



I would do it if they would consider me ... I have 3 degrees, widespread
business experience (24+ years), and a good knowledge of Billiards, and my brother is an attorney (comes in handy at various times ... lol).

Which brings us to another issue. This shouldn't hinge on the decisions or leadership of one man or one entity within our industry. We need to make decisions as "an industry", as "a sport". If something works, we all take credit for. If it fails, we all take responsibility. The main problem I am having with several industry leaders is that noone is willing to take responsibility the mess we have today. The blame belongs to all of us. Players and fans included. Just read some of the nasty posts that have been directed at the US Open in this thread. People saying they won't support for one reason or another. We are infamous for having spats like that within our game. That is why we are always on the outside looking in. Think about it. We don't support ourselves, yet we want others to throw money at our sport when we are at war with each other constantly. These issues keep our sport in relative obscurity to the mass media. Also, I have yet to have to pull out a degree to validate my knowledge or experience in this industry. I care about the game of pool and I am passionate to see it meet its true potential. I don't want to be in charge of anything, but I would consider being an unpaid advisor. If I am involved in nothing more than getting the ball rolling, then then I could live with that being my role in this situation.

As it is though, I am almost (signed contract, just have to have Kay sign it)
the newest tournament director for the new KBP Fury Wheatland Tour,
which will follow tornado alley, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and maybe a couple of more states with an Amateur 9 ball tour, and plan to offer 1 Pocket events if desired.

And just what we need... another tour. All this does is water down the industry. All I ask is that you think about what I am saying and how I am presnting it. This isn't about me. I will do all I can while I am still able to do so. Think long and hard about what another tour is going to do for the industry, and then think about what its going to do for you. These days, everybody wants their own tour. Why? Is it a power trip? I can't figure it out. Also remember that N.U.T.S. and Mike Janis are going to go through the same growing pains that the UPA expereinced over the past 5 years. I spoke with Mike Janis and at that time he had no intention of uniting with the UPA. It might be brave and honorable for him to go head to head with the UPA, but all it will do is divide our sport even more than it is now. When necesaary I have taken the kid gloves off when talking about the UPA when they have made blunders. I believe that the N.U.T.S. would be a great semi pro tour, and the players can use the N.U.T.S. to attain UPA Touring Pro Status. That would make more sense then what is currently in the works. As adults, we should at least be willing to sit down and talk about it, but you'd be surprised at the size of some of the egos involved. The hardest part is that many people (some that you are going to indirectly be dealing with) really don't care about how things are. Hopefully you will realize that before its too late. .
 
Base it on talent not $

Bad idea about raising the entry fees, the only difference then would be wealthier pool players, better I think to stick with qualifiers and maybe even some junior " " so we could see more of the young talent. I remember one year in Florida I finished 1st in the Florida Pro Tour Championships and also won their state championship all in the same year. But the next upa event in florida they had a ring game with a $3000.00 dollar entry fee I remember alot of fans asking me why I did not compete in this event. Well at the time I had'nt any sponsorship, the financial favortism tournaments need to be a thing of the past if we ever want pocket billiards to be a prestigious game that it should be. STRUCTURE is what I suggest, for crying out loud in the Derby City Classic the refferee is booking matches, we cannot mix tournaments and gambling that is pityful. I'm all for their being more $ in pool but we should never deny the top players a chance to compete based on their pocket book, that day in Florida people realized that by me not being in that 'ring game' that pool still was in the gutter. I told Charlie Williams the promoter of this event to warn me in the future when he decided to have these phony rich kid invitationals so I will no not to attend or at least untill I get a sponsor which in most cases means a backer.
 
JustPlay said:
Poker has such big payout for one reason only- HIGH ENTRY FEES and poker has no "added" money and no added money to any of its tournaments from sponsors. But they still have an extrodinary tournouts. If VAPOOLPLAYER wants "hacks" (VA, I am still waiting for the list of hacks you keep mentioning) out of "pro" pool tournaments, then raise the entry fees to $5000+, I am sure any player who questions their game just a little will not pay that kind of money to play. What do you think.


I find it interesting that their are 5 different cable and local networks showing Poker on tv. And all we get is trick shot magic!

The participants in poker actually provide the BIG DOLLAR PAYOUTS in poker. Maybe the people who host tournaments should consider this.

If and when the US Open starts to have qualifers, like you have mentioned they should, sponsorship better start putting in more money to keep the payouts the same or raise the entry fees like I suggest they do.


Vapoolplayer, I would like to see pool become big on TV and around the country and out of the hundreds of top professional pool players for the past 30 years, only and I mean only have a small handfull of these players (current and retired) have ever promoted the game to the public, potential sponsors and room owners across the country. Unfortunity, professional pool has always suffered from selfishness. This is a fact not a matter of my attitude, DUDE!

When was the last time, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Johnny Archer and a host of other Professional pool players promoted, lobbied, got air time on ESPN or lend their names to professional pool today? Never! They only looked out for themselves ( and I don't blame them to a certain degree either) and what they could get out of the game....

You must not play much poker. I have seen many poker tournaments that have added-money to the event.
 
AceHigh said:
You must not play much poker. I have seen many poker tournaments that have added-money to the event.


I do play alot of poker when I am in those states that have casinos. Yes you are correct I have played in many tournaments that have added prize monies.

My point is that the majority of these large prize funds come from the players themselves. And it amazes me that so many people are willing to pay 5K -40K to play in poker tournament. The WSOP and the WPT events have 300-500+/- player fields and most of the entry fees are $2000+ to enter.

If you can pick up a CardPlayer magazine and goto the back of the mag, they list about 50 tournaments from CA to Miss to LV and the entry fees are 500+ up 3000+ for these tournaments and are on a monthly basis and see the payouts for these large fields. I wish pool had some of that kind of money and player tournout. You can also goto www.cardplayer.com .

......
 
vapoolplayer said:
you want a list JUSTPLAY.............look at the 04 list.......make a list of the people you have heard of.........the rest are hacks until they prove themselves.........some will eventually be good.........some won't. every pro player out there was a hack at some point and time.........ever future pool player was or still is a hack..........and they should have to qualify to get to the top.

thats why i like the concept of the NUTS so much..........you have to earn your way to the top.........not just enter a tourney.

i'm not taking anything away from anyone that plays in the open, or may go on to win it...........but you should have to qualify to get there.

i think eventually this will happen, and it will only add the prestige of the US OPEN.

will this happen now? hell no, i do agree with you, there is no money yet, but it will be i think, and i think that things are already in motion to turn the sport upside down in the next 10 years.

thanks

VAP


Va,

The NUTS is a real good concept and I look forward to seeing its success. But that is why winning the US Open is so unique, because it is an OPEN event. Who did Earl Strickland lose to on the winners side bracket to get knocked to the one loss side? Yea, I don't remember either, I just remember it was some guy from Canada. Like Brady has said, the US Open creates champions. If this nobody can knock of Strickland, he can knock off anyone (at least you would think so). If the US open was a tournament inwhich a player had to qualify for you better have at least 50 qualifing tournaments per year and the top 4 finishers qualify so at least 200 players qualify to play in the US OPen and you would have to bank on the notion that all 200 of those players want to spend a week playing in the US Open.

I will try go to though the list of 2004 US Open players and post it here at your request. I think we both stumbled on a new thread that will sure be very interesting to this forum.
 
JustPlay said:
Va,

The NUTS is a real good concept and I look forward to seeing its success. But that is why winning the US Open is so unique, because it is an OPEN event. Who did Earl Strickland lose to on the winners side bracket to get knocked to the one loss side? Yea, I don't remember either, I just remember it was some guy from Canada. Like Brady has said, the US Open creates champions. If this nobody can knock of Strickland, he can knock off anyone (at least you would think so). If the US open was a tournament inwhich a player had to qualify for you better have at least 50 qualifing tournaments per year and the top 4 finishers qualify so at least 200 players qualify to play in the US OPen and you would have to bank on the notion that all 200 of those players want to spend a week playing in the US Open.

I will try go to though the list of 2004 US Open players and post it here at your request. I think we both stumbled on a new thread that will sure be very interesting to this forum.


Earl lost to Tyler Eady (of Calgary, Alberta Canada) to get knocked to the one loss side at last years Open.
 
Blackjack said:
Earl lost to Tyler Eady (of Calgary, Alberta Canada) to get knocked to the one loss side at last years Open.

A slight correction - that'd be 'Edey' and he had the misfourtune to face Earl again on the B side.
 
> After reading every post in this thread,concerning "hacks",or players that don't "belong" in a tournament like this,let me give you the perspective of a player that perhaps didn't belong,but played anyway. In August 2000,I finished 3rd in a 61 player qualifier,and went home mad as hell because I didn't get there. My wife at the time asked me if I thought I could put up a decent fight with the big guns,my answer was that I have to know,and there is only one way to find out. Three days later,she went and took out a loan to get me the chance,and I took it. I lost my first 2 matches,but hung tough with Jose Parica and Hideaki Sakamura from Japan,a roll or 2 my way could have easily won me both matches. Was this the result I expected? Hell no,despite what some players tell you,my opponents NAME has no impact on my effort to win a match,these were simply 2 guys trying to eliminate me from a tournament,same thing I was doing. I was there to try and win,not just be there to be there,or be able to say I played in the U.S. Open,some may say it was unrealistic to expect to win it,the same thing was said to Reed Pierce too. Just because only 7-8 players there actually knew my name,was my effort diminished because my last name isn't Strickland? I hardly think so. I suspect a LOT of the so-called "hacks" have done so in the past,and will continue to do so for the very same reason I did,an accurate assessment of their game in competition with strong,talented opposition they aren't familiar with. Who really cares if some loudmouth,self-serving pro (could be any of several) proclaims that these events should only be open to players if they are "in" with a particular group,or play at a certain level? When this scenario plays out the opposite of what is expected,and a so-called "hack" plays with determination and heart and beats a seeded player,it makes it easier to laugh at them,LOL. Before labeling someone a "hack",try and put yourself in their shoes,even if you play better than them,if they played better,would you want to be referred to as a "hack"? Tommy D.
 
Tommy-D said:
> ,even if you play better than them,if they played better,would you want to be referred to as a "hack"? Tommy D.

i am in "their shoes" and until i measure up........i'll admit i'm a hack compared to pro level players. and once i do measure up(meaning being a top finisher is tough regional events), i'll play in pro events, until then, i'm a hack.

my point is that you should have to qualify to play in this event.

i've already had the convo with just play, and i agree that right now pool isn't in the state it needs to be for this to happen, as the 500 from each player makes up a large portion of the money.

like i've said......what sport that has any reputation at all, lets any and all comers play in there most prestigious event?

thanks

VAP
 
vapoolplayer said:
my point is that you should have to qualify to play in this event.

VA,

I'd agree with you except for one minor problem. Who is going to create a minor league system that allows one to qualify for the "Tour" or the US Open? The UPA? They can't get their own house in order. The Old BCA"? They've had years to make it right. Can't get their own event in order. The regional tours? Each of the operators is working like hell just to keep their own events going. I'm watching the NUTS thing. Only problem I see so far is drawing names at large to qualify at each event. What does that prove? They didn't win!

Many years ago during the too short life of the MPBA, anyone who wanted to play in one of their events and wasn't a recognized "Pro" had to earn a spot through regional qualifier events. After all these years, I still have my card as a reminder of that format.

Right now, if YOU want to play in a UPA event, all you have to do is send in your $100 membership and become a "Touring Pro". I and many other players my speed did it years ago. That doesn't prove anything either.
 
cardiac kid said:
VA,

I'd agree with you except for one minor problem. Who is going to create a minor league system that allows one to qualify for the "Tour" or the US Open? The UPA? They can't get their own house in order. The Old BCA"? They've had years to make it right. Can't get their own event in order. The regional tours? Each of the operators is working like hell just to keep their own events going. I'm watching the NUTS thing. Only problem I see so far is drawing names at large to qualify at each event. What does that prove? They didn't win!

Many years ago during the too short life of the MPBA, anyone who wanted to play in one of their events and wasn't a recognized "Pro" had to earn a spot through regional qualifier events. After all these years, I still have my card as a reminder of that format.

Hear, hear! And a resounding TAP, TAP, TAP!

Words of WISDOM spoken from a true veteran player of the sport!

Yes, the Open should be restricted to those who qualify, but in the real world of pocket billiards here in the States, the aspiring players who desire to play pool professionally will be swept by the wayside, while the good old boys who ride the organizational train of inequities continue to enjoy a free ride, to include a faulty ranking system which keeps them ahead of the rest by design.

JAM
 
cardiac kid said:
VA,

I'd agree with you except for one minor problem. Who is going to create a minor league system that allows one to qualify for the "Tour" or the US Open? The UPA? They can't get their own house in order. The Old BCA"? They've had years to make it right. Can't get their own event in order. The regional tours? Each of the operators is working like hell just to keep their own events going. I'm watching the NUTS thing. Only problem I see so far is drawing names at large to qualify at each event. What does that prove? They didn't win!

Many years ago during the too short life of the MPBA, anyone who wanted to play in one of their events and wasn't a recognized "Pro" had to earn a spot through regional qualifier events. After all these years, I still have my card as a reminder of that format.

Right now, if YOU want to play in a UPA event, all you have to do is send in your $100 membership and become a "Touring Pro". I and many other players my speed did it years ago. That doesn't prove anything either.

i think people are getting me wrong here.............i know that it can't be done at this very moment. i'm just stating an opinion as to the fact i think one should have to qualify to enter the most prestigious even on american soil.

i really do think that all the blocks are in the billiard world......someone just needs to put them together.

i agree with blackjack, that even though the NUTS is a great idea, its working against itself.

the NUTS should be a qualifying system to get recognized as UPA tourning pro, and not just its own seperate entity trying to start from scratch like the UPA did some time ago.

thanks

VAP
 
vapoolplayer said:
i am in "their shoes" and until i measure up........i'll admit i'm a hack compared to pro level players. and once i do measure up(meaning being a top finisher is tough regional events), i'll play in pro events, until then, i'm a hack.

my point is that you should have to qualify to play in this event.

i've already had the convo with just play, and i agree that right now pool isn't in the state it needs to be for this to happen, as the 500 from each player makes up a large portion of the money.

like i've said......what sport that has any reputation at all, lets any and all comers play in there most prestigious event?

thanks

VAP



VAP,

What would be the point of qualifing for the US Open? Mens "pro" pool is at its all time low in the US (or just at a level that is always was at, I guess, that is debatible..) How many strick money players and part time players would want to start playing in tournaments just to "qualify" for a tournament? Who's really got the time to travel to qualifers across the country, espcially if they only play in the US Open once a year and really don't play much the rest.

I can understand if the US Open was drawing every champion from around the world on a yearly basis, 300+ players in attendence and was formatted like the WPC, I could see it having to go to qualifying accomplishments from its participants and cutting the field down to 64 or 128 players max like the WPC..

Professional Bowling is like pool with the exception, that to play in any of their events, qualifying events are held and the bowlers that finish in the top few spots get to play in that particular event (I attend a pro bowling tournament in Fairlawn, Ohio a few months back and a few local bowlers made the cut and a few came close) and all that have qualified (top 64) even the pro's got a minimum of $1000 even if they finished in last place! I could see mens pro pool in the US need or should go in this direction.

In Poker, all are welcomed with open arms to play. the World Series of Poker cost $1000 to $10,000 to play in its events and the World Poker Tour cost $25,000 to $40,000 to play in its events they love all the amaturs and wannabe pro players in their events. if they didn't, they wouldn't be paid a $1,000,000 for first place each month...Pool should be no exception when it comes to tournaments in the US. The state of mens pro pool is really a mess when you really think about it...Danny Harriman's situation with "pro" pool is just one of many problems...

That is why I give so much credit to the Joss Tour, Viking tour, the tours on the westcoast and the Florida tours for putting on really good quality events and no seeding, year in an year out. I think this is a good as it for mens pro pool in the US.. with the exception of a few major events...
 
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