Radial consistency of the Predator shaft.

[Ballistic Billiards]

You are quite right in no gimmick will help you play better. But that wasn't the topic of this thread. The topic was whether or not a predator was radial consistent more so than a traditional maple shaft. The answer is yes it is. The OB-1 is even more radial consistent. It is true that nothing will make you a better player, but I want the most consistent shaft that feels comfortable to me. The OB-1 is that shaft. So that is what I choose to play with. Everyone can play with whatever they want, but OB-1 and predator are more radial consistent with better deflection properties.

but... but.. but...
you can't play BHE with a low deflection shaft.
rep for u for playing with what you like despite the haters
and for always backing what works for you.
You should send one of your OB1's to KV and see how much
better it plays afterward.
I sold mine too fast but I'm curious.
My ob1 with a looooooooooooooooong pro taper was way too
wild for me, I'm more of a conical taper guy.
Anyway, 2% of difference in consistency isn't enough
for me to spend any time thinking about and any decent shaft
will do.
I really like the characteristics of the predator shafts but found
that I didn't lose any of what I thought I would going back to
a 1 piece shaft.
-cOOp, a stick is a stick is a stick.

 

[breakshot]

Everybody is talking about how much a cue deflects, but nobody is looking at how it feels.

-For the open minded:

Try thinking about how the shaft wood is dried- is it kiln dried and cooked/ burned and yellow or is it dried naturally retaining the natural cellular structure of the wood and white in color--How might this affect how the shaft plays?

or

What is the resonant pitch that a shaft produces when compared to other shafts, when the shaft strikes a hard surface (ex: cue ball...etc.)--Start thinking about how that can affect what a cue feels like when your playing(after all, playing at the highest levels means playing by feel!)--I don't expect everyone to understand this "feeling" concept-we are all at different stages in our pool playing abilities.

or

If you are striving to use the best possible instrument, then why are high end string musical instruments not made from plywood and laminated woods or composites-- from a engineering standpoint the wood is better but the resonant pitch is destroyed with all the glue seams.


imho--
--Just Food For Thought--

Craig

 

[RBLilly]

Everybody is talking about how much a cue deflects, but nobody is looking at how it feels.

-For the open minded:

Try thinking about how the shaft wood is dried- is it kiln dried and cooked/ burned and yellow or is it dried naturally retaining the natural cellular structure of the wood and white in color--How might this affect how the shaft plays?

or

What is the resonant pitch that a shaft produces when compared to other shafts, when the shaft strikes a hard surface (ex: cue ball...etc.)--Start thinking about how that can affect what a cue feels like when your playing(after all, playing at the highest levels means playing by feel!)--I don't expect everyone to understand this "feeling" concept-we are all at different stages in our pool playing abilities.

or

If you are striving to use the best possible instrument, then why are high end string musical instruments not made from plywood and laminated woods or composites-- from a engineering standpoint the wood is better but the resonant pitch is destroyed with all the glue seams.


imho--
--Just Food For Thought--

Craig

You can't compare instruments to cue shafts. When was the last time you seen anyone use a violin or a guitar to hit a cue ball? LMAO

 

[Ballistic Billiards]

Everybody is talking about how much a cue deflects, but nobody is looking at how it feels.

-For the open minded:

Try thinking about how the shaft wood is dried- is it kiln dried and cooked/ burned and yellow or is it dried naturally retaining the natural cellular structure of the wood and white in color--How might this affect how the shaft plays?

the shaft will be more resilient if dried naturally?

or

What is the resonant pitch that a shaft produces when compared to other shafts, when the shaft strikes a hard surface (ex: cue ball...etc.)--Start thinking about how that can affect what a cue feels like when your playing(after all, playing at the highest levels means playing by feel!)--I don't expect everyone to understand this "feeling" concept-we are all at different stages in our pool playing abilities.

The resonant pitch isn't related to the sound of the cue
in the way it is with a string instrument?
I was told once that most people gauge the "hit" of the
cue based on the sound.
I'm really not sure how it's relative and am off to start a post to try to dig up an answer.

or

If you are striving to use the best possible instrument, then why are high end string musical instruments not made from plywood and laminated woods or composites-- from a engineering standpoint the wood is better but the resonant pitch is destroyed with all the glue seams.

the laminate is stronger because of the glue, as it always is
at a wood:wood glued joint.
IIUC.

 

[alstl]

Somebody explain to me what difference it makes if my shaft is radial consistent or whatever it is.

 

[Ballistic Billiards]

baited

Somebody explain to me what difference it makes if my shaft is radial consistent or whatever it is.

2%


in other words, pool myth #547

 

[Fatboy]

This radial consistency argument is the stuff of marketing, not pool playing.

QUOTE]

from your lips to Gods ears.

 

[Rod]

I agree more marketing. Well some actually believe this stuff so why not sell them a load.

Rod

 

[John Barton]

Eddie Laube thought of in in the 1960's. He was one of the early ones to put a dot on the shaft. The idea was to always put the dot up when you played - so the shaft would always bend the same. Coincidentally, Meucci came up with the "idea" and so did a few others much later.

Chris

And some players use Sharpies. I have purchased a few cues from old timer's that simply dotted their shafts with a marker so that they could always be turned in the "right" direction.

One famous player, whose cue I acquired, had marked his at the base of the ferrule on both shafts.

John

 

[crawfish]

Everybody is talking about how much a cue deflects, but nobody is looking at how it feels.

-For the open minded:

Try thinking about how the shaft wood is dried- is it kiln dried and cooked/ burned and yellow or is it dried naturally retaining the natural cellular structure of the wood and white in color--How might this affect how the shaft plays?

or

What is the resonant pitch that a shaft produces when compared to other shafts, when the shaft strikes a hard surface (ex: cue ball...etc.)--Start thinking about how that can affect what a cue feels like when your playing(after all, playing at the highest levels means playing by feel!)--I don't expect everyone to understand this "feeling" concept-we are all at different stages in our pool playing abilities.

or

If you are striving to use the best possible instrument, then why are high end string musical instruments not made from plywood and laminated woods or composites-- from a engineering standpoint the wood is better but the resonant pitch is destroyed with all the glue seams.


imho--
--Just Food For Thought--

Craig

Yeah, baby. Now we're talking. In your new million dollar home would like 3/4 wood subfloors, or particle board? Flakeboard? OSB? Feel, resonance, response, and that good tip are all I need. Like this BB said, why are the best instruments made of all solid wood?

 

[pulzcul]

I'm pretty sure the circumference of a cue shaft is finite. Just my opinion, but I think that 100% radial consistency is measureable. If you rotate the cue every 5 degrees and test it, you should get an answer.

BTW, I've measured infinity...............I'm still measuring

Measurable? Yes, but not attainable!

 

[RBLilly]

Yeah, baby. Now we're talking. In your new million dollar home would like 3/4 wood subfloors, or particle board? Flakeboard? OSB? Feel, resonance, response, and that good tip are all I need. Like this BB said, why are the best instruments made of all solid wood?

When was the last time you seen a musical instrument shooting a cue ball?

Different projects require different types of material.

Why do most of the Car stereo enthusiast use MDF board to build subwoofer boxes? Why not use 3/4" plywood? The answer is because the subwoofer can rattle plywood apart! I have seen it with my own eyes. So it is better to use the MDF which is glued together.

You all can keep saying that the laminated shafts aren't as good as the maple shafts, but comparing them to musical instruments isn't the same thing.

Different strokes for different folks. I will stick with my OB-1, and BB also said how does it feel? Well the OB-1 feels great!

 

[alstl]

2%


in other words, pool myth #547

I'm always open to ideas that will improve my game but even if this information is correct I'm not sure how to apply it.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Yeah, baby. Now we're talking. In your new million dollar home would like 3/4 wood subfloors, or particle board? Flakeboard? OSB? Feel, resonance, response, and that good tip are all I need. Like this BB said, why are the best instruments made of all solid wood?

You know what Mosconi said after missing that 537th ball?
" Damn, radial inconsistency!"

 

[Ballistic Billiards]

You know what Mosconi said after missing that 537th ball?
" Damn, radial inconsistency!"

Following this session, Willie began research on what has become known
as the radial laminate shaft.

 

[Ballistic Billiards]

I'm always open to ideas that will improve my game but even if this information is correct I'm not sure how to apply it.

don't waste your time

 

[ribdoner]

Voted "I don't know" or do I care.

What I do know is I play at least the 8 worse when I use one. Gave it a whirl (1 to 2 wk trial) on a couple of occasions and the game stopped being fun.

I'm happy for those whose game has improved...

 

[poolpro]

You know what Mosconi said after missing that 537th ball?
" Damn, radial inconsistency!"

Mosconi's record run was 526, not 536 as you are implying. Just as predator shafts are made of ten ( not 8) pie wedges. You should really look a little more into things before you jump to passing judgement. If you are more well informed , you will be taken a bit more seriously.

This thread has gotten way off topic. It is not about how important raial consistanncy is, it was about wheter or not the owners of these shafts believed them to be or not.

I think anything you can do to reduce or eliminate a variable , the better off you are. I would rather miss because of an error in MY judgement as opposed to inconsistant equipment. Pool has been around before the vulcanization of rubber for cushions. People would play bank shots off of non rubber and very inconsistant rails. So even if they shot two shots EXACTLY the same one would go, the other would not. It was just part of the game, there was no other option. Would this be acceptable to anyone on here? Would you accept a miss due to terrible cushions, if you had a choice? No doubt there were great players back then in spite of these conditions. This does not mean you would choose it if you had the option.


I think it is ironic that alot of the people on here think that radial consistancy is BS and a myth, and so unimportant chose to read and comment about how insignificant it is. Why not move on to something more worthwhile of your attention then?

If it is up to me, I am going to play on the most consistant equipment available to me at any given time. I will get that out of the way so I can spend more time on all the other reasons that I play less than perfect pool.

 

[Poke N Hope]

I never said Arnot's were radial consistent, they are as about radial consistent as a muecci black dot. Hold it with the flat panels vertical it will be different than holding it with the flat panels horizontal. But his shafts are more consistent between each of his shafts. Meaning if you buy his cue it will hit pretty much like the cue I buy. However if you buy another custom cue makers cue and I buy from the same cue maker they may have totally different hits due to the difference in the shafts.

A laminated shaft won't be any better if they use better wood. They are taking the spine out of the wood which makes the quality of wood a mute point. The way they engineered and designed them the wood has little effect because they get rid of the spine. By the way, how do you know they don't use quality wood? If they take a piece of wood that has more growth rings in it and do what they are doing with the wood they currently have it isn't going to play any better. The only reason that the custom cue makers look for more growth rings is like you said to make it stiffer, and it shouldn't have as much of a spine. However, the way OB-1's are designed you would just be wasting your money to use a more expensive wood. Since they chop it up anyway, and reconstruct it.

As far as me switching butts that has nothing to do with it. However if I ever mess up my shaft I can get a replacement. You won't find a replacement for that custom cue shaft that will play the exact same or close to it. It will be like having a new cue all over again. It might play close to the same, but it won't play the same. I can order another shaft today, and have it play the same as the shaft I currently have. Again it is more consistent so therefore to me consistency is a key point.

Yes tips, and tapers are just as important as deflection, and consistency. So if you look for the best tip, and the best taper, why not look for the most radial consistent, with less deflection?

You will always have deflection, squirt, radial consistency. You are right about that. However, I have a shaft that I can replace and not change my deflection, squirt, and radial consistency. Therefore I don't have to learn how a new shaft reacts if I mess this one up. In other words I get rid of a learning curve. Or in a since I have more consistent equipment.

OB-1 by far has the better design as far as laminated shafts go. However, The predator shafts can be alot better if they used better wood. I have seen cut-section of several predator shafts and the quality of the wood is lower and the quality of the wood in one shaft varies between the 10 pie sections. This was done by a custom cue maker (Who has been making cues for 30 years) and these were his findings and not my opinion.

The shafts that I am talking about are from elite custom cue makers such as Black Boar and Southwest. At Black Boar, only 3-5 shafts make it to a end product out of every 100 shaft blanks. I like to see Dan Janes from JOSS cues make this claim. These are the words of Tony himself, who makes the cues. I have 5 Black Boar shafts. They have the same diameter and taper and I can tell you they all play the same. I do not need to adjust between shafts. Also, these shafts are almost 20 years old and they play just as good today as they did when i bought them.

The wood that is used in Fury, Joss, Players cues for shafts is not the same wood that is used in a Black Boar. It ain't even in the same class. That would be laike saying a BMW AMG is just another import like Honda.

Heres the bottom line, I like high end Custom Shafts, You like your OB-1. Fine, I could care less. There have been only two points I have been trying to make. One, All wood is not the same. Secondly, Why want laminated shaft makers like Predator, OB-1 and Meucci back up there claims by testing there products againist High Quality wood shafts like Black Boar?


If they don't want to, MAybe all of us AZer's should bann together and get the TV show "MythBusters" to do it so that we can put this issue to rest!

 

[seymore15074]

Anyway, 2% of difference in consistency isn't enough
for me to spend any time thinking about and any decent shaft
will do.

I would consider "changing my ways" if there was a 2% difference in consistency, but there aren't even remotely that kind of result!

-cOOp, a stick is a stick is a stick.

Say it again! LOUDER!