Rail calibrations
- Thread starter perfectpocketz
- Start date
I'll take a stab at answering some of your questions, but without giving up to many details. There's a certain consistency that gives a repeated response, meaning a sub-rail thickness of (X) along with a bevel of (Y) gives you (Z), a repeatable nose height. Just because a cushion is at say a 1 7/16" nose height, that don't mean that all pool tables with a nose height of 1 /7/16" are going to play the same. What's been lost over time through manufacturing is where the back of the cushion starts out at, as that has a major factor in how the nose of the cushion is going to react, meaning just exactly how the rails are going to respond on a pool table using say a K55 profile cushion. What Mark and I do, is set the sub-rail thickness to a known (X) thickness, and with that thickness sub-rail, only a bevel of (Y) will set the nose height to our desired nose height for the playability we're looking for, and regardless of what set of rails we're working on, the process is repeatable, as well as the overall outcome of the rails. We've done a lot of R&R in this area over the last several years, which has lead to the development of tooling to repeat the process of rebuilding the sub-rails with more and more accuracy.
You mentioned the GC5's, and you're right about the rails on them being inconsistent, but that inconsistency started way back when Brunswick started using a laminate for the finish of the rails, as that added a little more thickness to the rails, thereby changing the placement of the back of the cushions and its relationship to the nose of the cushions, meaning the body alignment of the cushions. Then to top it off, Brunswick changed their cushions from the Monarch cushions to the Superspeed's, which are not directly interchangeable with one-another, though most table mechanic's wouldn't know the difference anyway, which is why so many GC's in pool rooms today play so bad. Then, to top it off, Brunswick changed the Superspeed cushions again along about I think around 1978'-80' or so. The width of the cushions have changed from the Monarch K55 Profile having a top width of 1 1/8" wide to the first Superspeeds being 1 1/8" wide, then the Superspeeds changed to 1 3/16" wide, then changed again to 1 1/4" wide, which is why today they're not a straight change over on any Brunswick built before the second edition GC3's, because the nose height in relation to the sub-rails are off, the width is wider than what's being replaced, and you can't use a K66 cushion which is 1 1/8" wide to replace a set of Monarch cushions that are 1 1/8" wide because they don't share the same sub-rail bevel to set the nose height correctly.
This is where Diamond made the change to their rails, which is what created the Blue label rails, they're the same rails that Diamond has always been building, but what I showed Diamond how to do was to re-align the cushions on their rails to play more smooth so to speak, a little less speed, more truer banks and so on.
I know I haven't answered the questions in a way that you would have liked, but Mark and I have a lot of time...."years" invested in what we know between us, and I'm guilty of teaching other table mechanics some of these tricks of the trade, but never-the-less...I've never taught anyone everything I DO know, and the only person that does know everything I know about working on rails and tables.....is Mark, as we share all our thoughts back and forth about working on rails, new ideas...and old ones as well.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is....there's a few things Mark and I are going to keep private, not meaning to offend anyone...but, that's they way it is:sorry:
Glen
Thank you Glen. So basically, you guys are modifying the rail thickness and cushion attachment angle to work with different cushions, is that right?
For example:
Cushion A works best with ABC rail dimensions.
Cushion B works best with DEF rail dimensions.
Cushion C works best with IJK rail dimensions.
And depending on the brand and vintage of the table, the wood rail has to be modified differently to work with the above 3 cushions, because each table manufacturer has a different rail profile.
The "secret" info you guys have is what dimensions of rail profile work best with Cushion A, Cushion B, and Cushion C?
For example:
Cushion A works best with ABC rail dimensions.
Cushion B works best with DEF rail dimensions.
Cushion C works best with IJK rail dimensions.
And depending on the brand and vintage of the table, the wood rail has to be modified differently to work with the above 3 cushions, because each table manufacturer has a different rail profile.
The "secret" info you guys have is what dimensions of rail profile work best with Cushion A, Cushion B, and Cushion C?
And one more question, if a consumer had a modern GC, lets say a 4 or 5, that he loved the way the rails play, but maybe in 20 years he wanted the cushions start to change and he wants them replaced.... Would there be any need to modify the wood? Or would you just recommend the same Super Speed cushion to be installed.
That would depend on what cushions are the flavor of the day in 20 years...LOL, but either way, yes the rails could be modified to fit any cushions of the day, and trust me, even the way a stock GC4 or 5 today can be made to play noticeably better than stock
Glen
perfectpocketz
Banned
That would depend on what cushions are the flavor of the day in 20 years...LOL, but either way, yes the rails could be modified to fit any cushions of the day, and trust me, even the way a stock GC4 or 5 today can be made to play noticeably better than stock
Glen
I changed Johnny Archer's gold crown 5........ Brunswick gave him a new 5 and light for his home.....I modified his rails and pockets....put a new set of super speed back on with 4 1/8th corner pockets and 4 5/8th side pockets.
If Johnny would have wanted different cushions other than super speed.....I would have had to modify the sub rails.........more than anything it's time doing the rails right.....and the height and thickness of the rail and sub rails.
Sounds easy now.....that I've spent about 15 years figuring out what numbers go with the right cushions..........but that's not all......your numbers change all the time trying to get everything playing its best.
All in all.....guys like Glen and myself...throw most of the numbers out.....and match up everything according to the rail we're working on at the time.
That's way I always say.....it help to play the game well....then you know just where everything need to be on the rails.
Mark Gregory
Mark is kind of like a mad scientist, he's always looking to change something to try and make it better, and if the tools he has won't do what he wants them to do, then he works on changing his tools....just so he can do that one more thing he wanted to do....only at the time, the tool didn't exist, same thing it seems like I have to go through every time I turn around:just to do one more thing differently:thumbup:
Glen
perfectpocketz
Banned
Glen...your absolutely right....but what's most important is....the knowledge of understanding that the rail needs something more than what we've been doing to them.
Like I said before......everyone's just calibrating the sub rail to the cushions.
That's just half the battle....to really calibrate the rail ....your have to do the whole rail.
Things get better all the time....if you play on what you've worked on.....that's why I keep making changes for the better.
I know my rails play just fine......I'm just try to better the cosmetics look of the rail.....along with really hitting the mark on my calibration of the rail.
Machine works awesome.....but I still have a lot to understand about it.
Mark Gregory
Looks like a great tool.... Thanks for sharing the pix!
P.S. I'm travelling through Atl this weekend...hmmmmmmmm. lol
P.S. I'm travelling through Atl this weekend...hmmmmmmmm. lol
perfectpocketz
Banned
Jack.....your more than welcome to stop by for a little if you like......I'm really busy in the shop.....but I should be home all weekend working. In the shop.
Have no problem showing you some things.......trust me I can't do all the rails in the country.....nor would I ever want to.
I do a lot of different things on rails then the rest of the guys doing this work.....if you stop by you will want to change a lot of ways doing rail work.
Call me if you want to come by
770-548-4292
Mark Gregory
Bump b/c it's way too cool.