Rebuttal by Johann Chua re Waxgate

[Island Drive]

Chua is a good person, surrounded by others of the same.
To be great.... the greatest (which he almost is) has no room for this ''wallflower'' dialogue.
The meek don't survive.
They made the wrong bet.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... figure out a way to thwart this from happening in the future ...

Well, one way is to replace the cue ball on request from either player with a cue ball that has been cleaned by a standard process. Then check the cue ball that was just removed. The checking part probably should be done quietly.

Or, rather than clean the cue ball on request as they do now, put in a new one which could be faster. Kind of like all the baseball replacements you see -- basically every time the baseball might be a little scuffed.

 

[Johnny Rosato]

Does the person that 'waxes' a CB shoot with that same ball or does he have a hidden
'unwaxed' CB and uses sleight of hand each inning?

 

[Jerry R]

Does the person that 'waxes' a CB shoot with that same ball or does he have a hidden
'unwaxed' CB and uses sleight of hand each inning?
View attachment 840612

No, but if you know the cue ball is "waxed" and your opponent doesn't, you are at a HUGE advantage. Even if a player like Kaci or Yapp (or anyone else) can "adjust" to the new conditions in a few shots, that three or four mistakes or missed position, at this level,
is likely to be fatal.

 

[KenneyTran]

It’s a simple and normal practice for Philippine players, the humidity there are crazy. If you watch alex or Efren or many other moneys game there, you’ll see that’s how they clean the ball when gets a ball in hand. They also have tons of powder on the table when or after shooting a ball. Those powder often get onto the ball, so rolling the CB against the rail is a normal practice. They doing that since when they know how to play pool, it’s a common practice. I’ve seen Kaci or Gorst or SVB does it once in awhile to clean CB when break.
IMO, they ref need to inspect or clean the ball often. Maybe they need to setup a glove / towel for player to use or player only can use new glove to play with. I can go on and on with suggestions but to be honest, the wax the CB, I don’t see it happening. I feel that WNT this time has lots of flaws, and may be the CB or set of balls we’re over cleaning before the match start.


FYI: here’s Kaci doing the same

156K views · 694 reactions | 📍WAX GATE PORTION?! RUB EM LIKE A NEW BORN BABY⁉️ CryCi Hello Dom Hello FRYER 🤣 #TheHotspotBilliards #EKLENTKACI #followforfollowback #billiards #BilliardsNews #billiardsphilippines | The HotSpot

📍WAX GATE PORTION?! RUB EM LIKE A NEW BORN BABY⁉️ CryCi Hello Dom Hello FRYER 🤣 #TheHotspotBilliards #EKLENTKACI #followforfollowback #billiards #BilliardsNews #billiardsphilippines.

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FYI: and here’s Gorst

10K views · 77 reactions | 📍 WAX ISSUE: FEDOR 🆚 IGNACIO?⁉️ 🎥 SAME MOVE. DIFFERENT REACTIONS? We posted a clip showing 🇺🇸 Fedor Gorst and 🇵🇭 Jeffrey Ignacio doing the same exact motion on the cue ball — yet only one of them is being slammed online fo

📍 WAX ISSUE: FEDOR 🆚 IGNACIO?⁉️ 🎥 SAME MOVE. DIFFERENT REACTIONS? We posted a clip showing 🇺🇸 Fedor Gorst and 🇵🇭 Jeffrey Ignacio doing the same exact motion on the cue ball — yet only one of them is...

www.facebook.com

 

[Jerry R]

I think the logical "fix" for this is to wax/silicone every cue ball before every rack.

 

[straightline]

Could be a ref didn't know any better.

 

[boogieman]

I have a great deal of respect for Michael Panozzo. He is much more knowledgeable than most about a variety of pool subject matters. After listening to the podcast, it is my opinion that he thought posting about lawyers may not be productive for all persons involved. I agree with him.

I noticed about an hour ago, Johann Chua thanked everybody at Matchroom, his sponsors, the Saudi hosts, et cetera for a great tournament and how much he appreciate it. I think he's turned the corner on this topic, which is a good thing for everyone involved.

Does waxing happen in pro events? Well, apparently, it does. It seems to be the latest in pool's dirty little secrets. But there are some players like Johann, Fedor, Shane, and others who are held in high regard by pool fans around the world. I think Matchroom and other pool promoters will figure out a way to thwart this from happening in the future, just like they did when they changed the rules at the WPC in Manila when everybody was doing the bird break.

View attachment 840567

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a bird break?

 

[muskyed]

A friend of ours has a Ballstar and cleans the balls after every days shooting with their liquid, I have a Diamond home made clone and clean mine every two weeks or so with some Aramith slightly diluted. We play at each others houses and when playing at hers, it's an unbelievable adjustment as to cue ball positioning. any minor draw, becomes a 1/4 table or more. Heck, when pulling them out of the pockets for a new rack, you have to be really careful not to let them fall out of your hand.

 

[skogstokig]

It’s a simple and normal practice for Philippine players, the humidity there are crazy. If you watch alex or Efren or many other moneys game there, you’ll see that’s how they clean the ball when gets a ball in hand. They also have tons of powder on the table when or after shooting a ball. Those powder often get onto the ball, so rolling the CB against the rail is a normal practice. They doing that since when they know how to play pool, it’s a common practice. I’ve seen Kaci or Gorst or SVB does it once in awhile to clean CB when break.
IMO, they ref need to inspect or clean the ball often. Maybe they need to setup a glove / towel for player to use or player only can use new glove to play with. I can go on and on with suggestions but to be honest, the wax the CB, I don’t see it happening. I feel that WNT this time has lots of flaws, and may be the CB or set of balls we’re over cleaning before the match start.


FYI: here’s Kaci doing the same

156K views · 694 reactions | 📍WAX GATE PORTION?! RUB EM LIKE A NEW BORN BABY⁉️ CryCi Hello Dom Hello FRYER 🤣 #TheHotspotBilliards #EKLENTKACI #followforfollowback #billiards #BilliardsNews #billiardsphilippines | The HotSpot

📍WAX GATE PORTION?! RUB EM LIKE A NEW BORN BABY⁉️ CryCi Hello Dom Hello FRYER 🤣 #TheHotspotBilliards #EKLENTKACI #followforfollowback #billiards #BilliardsNews #billiardsphilippines.

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FYI: and here’s Gorst

10K views · 77 reactions | 📍 WAX ISSUE: FEDOR 🆚 IGNACIO?⁉️ 🎥 SAME MOVE. DIFFERENT REACTIONS? We posted a clip showing 🇺🇸 Fedor Gorst and 🇵🇭 Jeffrey Ignacio doing the same exact motion on the cue ball — yet only one of them is being slammed online fo

📍 WAX ISSUE: FEDOR 🆚 IGNACIO?⁉️ 🎥 SAME MOVE. DIFFERENT REACTIONS? We posted a clip showing 🇺🇸 Fedor Gorst and 🇵🇭 Jeffrey Ignacio doing the same exact motion on the cue ball — yet only one of them is...

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everyone has done that manuever in pool rooms, especially in "old" chalk circumstances. for me it's an ingrained habit. what's the alternative? your pockets? your t-shirt?

 

[Sheldon]

He's sounds innocent to me (but what do I know?). But I think threatening legal action (even if it's not just hot air) is a bad idea.
If you've got a case, just make it and keep quiet.

 

[JAM]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a bird break?

Corey Deuel has been credited for creating the "bird break" (soft break), which spread like wildfire at the 2007 World Pool Championship (WPC) in Philippines. Everybody was doing the bird break. Because of a bird-break perfection, the balls spread out like a flower, making it an easy runout.

Incidentally, if you've ever been to a carnival that offers a stuffed animal if you run 3 balls on the small pool table, this is the exact break to use. My pool buddies and I used to go to the Montgomery County Fair in Maryland and win big stuffed animals at the pool table. We used the bird break.

The finals that year was Daryl "Dazzler" Peach v. Roberto "Superman" Gomez. After this 2007 WPC tournament, the three-balls-must-pass-the-side-pocket rule came to the fore. No more bird breaks.

Listen to the commentary here at the match between Daryl Peach and Francisco Bustamante. I think that's Pat Holtz in the commentary booth, but I 'm not sure who the other commentator is. They talk about the soft break is being used.

Break by Francisco Bustamante.

Break by Daryl Peach.

 

[straightline]

The Scot reminds me of Jason Shaw.

 

[8intheside]

The old innocent until proven guilty comes into place here, however why would Kaci make this up?, he has been a pro for a while now and to my knowledge has been Pretty low key and unassuming.

 

[SA96]

Chua's response was garbage.

It was written by a lawyer and the main argument was "you have no evidence".

 

[skogstokig]

Corey Deuel has been credited for creating the "bird break" (soft break), which spread like wildfire at the 2007 World Pool Championship (WPC) in Philippines. Everybody was doing the bird break. Because of a bird-break perfection, the balls spread out like a flower, making it an easy runout.

Incidentally, if you've ever been to a carnival that offers a stuffed animal if you run 3 balls on the small pool table, this is the exact break to use. My pool buddies and I used to go to the Montgomery County Fair in Maryland and win big stuffed animals at the pool table. We used the bird break.

The finals that year was Daryl "Dazzler" Peach v. Roberto "Superman" Gomez. After this 2007 WPC tournament, the three-balls-must-pass-the-side-pocket rule came to the fore. No more bird breaks.

Listen to the commentary here at the match between Daryl Peach and Francisco Bustamante. I think that's Pat Holtz in the commentary booth, but I 'm not sure who the other commentator is. They talk about the soft break is being used.

Break by Francisco Bustamante.

Break by Daryl Peach.

it's hilarious to see bustie loading up and producing that break

 

[skogstokig]

The Scot reminds me of Jason Shaw.

no it's probably pat. glaswegian is rough but this sounds even more inland and unintelligible (i'm conditioned by scottish work contacts so i understand it fine). quoting p.j. o'rourke from the national lampoon magazine "foreigners around the world":

scots:

their fumbled attempt at speaking the english language has been a source of amusement for five centuries, and their idiot music has been dreaded by those not blessed with deafness for at least as long

there's worse stuff in there so i can't post the full article, probably not in NPR even lol.

 

[boogieman]

Corey Deuel has been credited for creating the "bird break" (soft break), which spread like wildfire at the 2007 World Pool Championship (WPC) in Philippines. Everybody was doing the bird break. Because of a bird-break perfection, the balls spread out like a flower, making it an easy runout.

Incidentally, if you've ever been to a carnival that offers a stuffed animal if you run 3 balls on the small pool table, this is the exact break to use. My pool buddies and I used to go to the Montgomery County Fair in Maryland and win big stuffed animals at the pool table. We used the bird break.

The finals that year was Daryl "Dazzler" Peach v. Roberto "Superman" Gomez. After this 2007 WPC tournament, the three-balls-must-pass-the-side-pocket rule came to the fore. No more bird breaks.

Listen to the commentary here at the match between Daryl Peach and Francisco Bustamante. I think that's Pat Holtz in the commentary booth, but I 'm not sure who the other commentator is. They talk about the soft break is being used.

Break by Francisco Bustamante.

Break by Daryl Peach.

Ah, I gotcha. I had never heard it called that, thanks!

 

[KenneyTran]

Ah, I gotcha. I had never heard it called that, thanks!

To be honest they not call cheat. It just another way people found an easier way to do things. Eventually, it’s gave them such an advantage over the other, so new rules and new regulations will have to apply. Example, in car racing or bike racing, you see them racer heat up their tires and wheels to get a better traction before the race. It still allowed and with no issues.

If rolling the CB at the rail create a better heat or kinetic energy toward the CB, by all means the ref can ask them to stop. I do not see these things are cheating. They are simply a way of people finding out and made the game easier for themselves. Another example, player that break and used to jump off the table, they used overly powerful hit, will that consider a foul, no. So what made a soft break illegal, they still have to practice thousands of hours to get it right and able to make a run out. Just in my opinion, when things are getting tooooooo easy, then the rule will apply to slow it down to create a harder environment. That’s how pro vs amateur like me, adjusting to the situation. Pro practice more and their reactions and adaptations are much faster. These aren’t necessarily a cheat but more of ways get the job done faster.

Hence, we advanced and become what we are. AI, ChatGPT, automated system, and many other things. Back then, people banking and kickshot, but now people are getting used to jump cue. It is cheating? No, it’s just another way doing something simpler. That’s why there are tournaments where jump cue aren’t allowed.

 

[FastManners]

Chua really has been a much needed breath of fresh air to pool over the last year or two.
Fun to watch, expresses passion and seems like an all round good egg.

The cue ball was definitely not reacting normally in the videos I saw. That being said, surely if there was a substance applied to the ball it would likely be there for subsequent matches either on the balls or transferred to the tables. So although it does look like something has nefarious occurred it does seem a little unfair to point fingers without direct proof of someone applying the substance.