Received my Pro 1/CTE DVD today

champ2107

Banned
Monte:

Quick suggestion: bit bucket 'im. No use in trying to defend yourself, as you're one of the most courteous, helpful, and respectful folks on this entire forum. Everyone knows that. Bit bucket 'im (like a lot of us have), and you'll be rid of that obstacle.

Keep up the great work on the blog. It's appreciated by a lot of us out here!
-Sean

right! here is the guy who likes to post like he is "gods gift to az" you had your chance "kid" and you failed! another fallen genius of AZ, go argue with the english guy you like to stalk and troll and for the first time ever i am now placing all the girls on ignore too :) i have 13 total and if i dont respond to you then you are most likely om my ignore list :thumbup:
 
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JC

Coos Cues
Good stuff. When I reached proficiency with manual CTE, I began to see from a standing position which direction the pivot would be, left or right. Then I was able to see the line I would end up post pivot. From there I was able to slide the cue directly into the post-pivot position. Ala, Pro1. Two great things about Pro1: 1) You don't need to manually pivot, and 2) The bridge hand placement makes no difference, put it where it is comfortable.

When Stan was talking about how pros aim in the Pro 1 section of the DVD he theorized that they may be using the CTE system unconciously. How else can you walk straight up on a cut shot and shoot the object ball in the pocket without even moving over to the shot line to find the contact point? Your mind visualizes the shot and you simply stroke it to the correct contact point. And remember that all balls skid a bit on contact so all cut shots will be a little thick if you strictly hit the ghost ball contact point. Yet you can still shoot them right down the middle of the pocket because your mind makes the adjustment just like it does when you use english. Stan says they have learned this skill through hitting so many balls. I am a pretty avid pool player and have been for 40 years so I see no mathematical possibility that a 22 year old pro has hit more balls in his life than I have. Yet he still shoots straighter more consistently. Why is this? I am not a pro level player and never will be but I can also just drop into any cut shot and pocket it with pretty good consitency without moving over and looking at it's path to the pocket. I can visualize the entire shot prior to dropping down and just know where to aim to make it pocket. Am I already using this system and don't even know it just like Stan's theoretical pro?
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... I can visualize the entire shot prior to dropping down and just know where to aim to make it pocket. Am I already using this system and don't even know it just like Stan's theoretical pro?

No. Your prior experience of shooting pool shots, however you have done it, has educated you to "just know" how much to cut the OB (i.e., where to direct the CB) to make the shot. That has nothing to do with CTE/Pro1. However, enough prior use of CTE/Pro1 would also give a player the education to "just know."
 

JC

Coos Cues
No. Your prior experience of shooting pool shots, however you have done it, has educated you to "just know" how much to cut the OB (i.e., where to direct the CB) to make the shot. That has nothing to do with CTE/Pro1. However, enough prior use of CTE/Pro1 would also give a player the education to "just know."

Thank you. I guess I didn't understand what Stan meant when he was talking about that.
 

pablocruz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good stuff. When I reached proficiency with manual CTE, I began to see from a standing position which direction the pivot would be, left or right. Then I was able to see the line I would end up post pivot. From there I was able to slide the cue directly into the post-pivot position. Ala, Pro1. Two great things about Pro1: 1) You don't need to manually pivot, and 2) The bridge hand placement makes no difference, put it where it is comfortable.

That's where you're wrong! The bridge placement must be on the ghostball line! This is the final goal of all aiming systems! If it isn't on the ghostball line, the shot doesn't go!! The cue-tip is deliberately pointed away from center of the cue-ball to help you find this bridge-point!
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's where you're wrong! The bridge placement must be on the ghostball line! This is the final goal of all aiming systems! If it isn't on the ghostball line, the shot doesn't go!! The cue-tip is deliberately pointed away from center of the cue-ball to help you find this bridge-point!

Yup, where else could it be to make the shot?
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
That's where you're wrong! The bridge placement must be on the ghostball line! This is the final goal of all aiming systems! If it isn't on the ghostball line, the shot doesn't go!! The cue-tip is deliberately pointed away from center of the cue-ball to help you find this bridge-point!

I may have not been clear. What I mean is the bridge length doesn't matter since there is no manual pivoting involved. Of course the bridge needs to be in a position so the cue is on the shot line. Exactly where on the shot line is not so delicate as it is with manual CTE. The shot itself may dictate a certain bridge distance such as up against a rail or very short shots, but that doesn't have to do with the aiming system.
 
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Okie

Seeker
Silver Member
I may have not been clear. What I mean is the bridge length doesn't matter since there is no manual pivoting involved. Of course the bridge needs to be in a position so the cue is on the shot line. Exactly where on the shot line is not so delicate as it is with manual CTE. The shot itself may dictate a certain bridge distance such as up against a rail or very short shots, but that doesn't have to do with the aiming system.

If I must place my bridge hand on the shot line then I must know the shot line. How does this system show me the shot line?
 

JC

Coos Cues
If I must place my bridge hand on the shot line then I must know the shot line. How does this system show me the shot line?

That's my sticking point. There is exactly one spot the cue ball can contact the object ball with no english to have it split the pocket. If the final resting point of your bridge doesn't find this spot after the pivot you will miss the shot. So at some point you are aiming from something other than those two lines. The same way you aim a 15 degree cut you've shot a thousand times. Your instinct and experience tells you where to aim.

BTW I have spent considerable time yesterday and today and I find no way to arrive at this point without placing my bridge hand in exactly the correct spot and cannot find any specific information in the DVD as to how to determine that spot. The longer the shot, the more miserable the results.

I can't help but wonder how many proponents of this system actually shoot straighter than I do already. And if this system advanced them to that level or if they were already there, like Stevie and Landon.
 

Okie

Seeker
Silver Member
If I must place my bridge hand on the shot line then I must know the shot line. How does this system show me the shot line?

For the record...

I laid it out there in hopes of an answer. I was not trying to attack the system. I want the confidence this system breeds!
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's my sticking point. There is exactly one spot the cue ball can contact the object ball with no english to have it split the pocket. If the final resting point of your bridge doesn't find this spot after the pivot you will miss the shot. So at some point you are aiming from something other than those two lines. The same way you aim a 15 degree cut you've shot a thousand times. Your instinct and experience tells you where to aim.

BTW I have spent considerable time yesterday and today and I find no way to arrive at this point without placing my bridge hand in exactly the correct spot and cannot find any specific information in the DVD as to how to determine that spot. The longer the shot, the more miserable the results.

I can't help but wonder how many proponents of this system actually shoot straighter than I do already. And if this system advanced them to that level or if they were already there, like Stevie and Landon.

Awhile back, a poster recommended reverse engineering the system:

If you already aim using the GB, double distance or 90/90... or use the arrow.

- Get on the shot line with your tip at center CB.
- Pivot away from the center by one tip, or so, and memorize that visual.
- Do this for every cut angle.

I'm just the messenger.:smile:
 

JC

Coos Cues
do you not see whats going to happen soon here with him, its pretty obvious, he does not want it to work, he owns a table too.

If I didn't want it to work I wouldn't be working on it. I just can't see the ****ing spot to put my hand down in order to make it work without somehow aiming. I've shot hundreds of shots trying it. Some go in and some do not. You see now why I didn't ask for or want your help? This thread has already gotten ugly due to your "help". Thanks Neil, Mohrt, Scott for trying to help me. I'll figure it out or not. Can't take this shit any more.
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
That's my sticking point. There is exactly one spot the cue ball can contact the object ball with no english to have it split the pocket. If the final resting point of your bridge doesn't find this spot after the pivot you will miss the shot. So at some point you are aiming from something other than those two lines. The same way you aim a 15 degree cut you've shot a thousand times. Your instinct and experience tells you where to aim.

BTW I have spent considerable time yesterday and today and I find no way to arrive at this point without placing my bridge hand in exactly the correct spot and cannot find any specific information in the DVD as to how to determine that spot. The longer the shot, the more miserable the results.

I can't help but wonder how many proponents of this system actually shoot straighter than I do already. And if this system advanced them to that level or if they were already there, like Stevie and Landon.

My experience is not focusing on where to place the bridge hand. I instead focus on the execution exactly as described. I don't know how else to explain it except to take this to the table and go through the motions until the concept unlocks itself. I think "unlocks" is a good way to put it, because this is sort of the feeling once it starts to work.

I always like to use the concept of riding a bike. I can read a manual and be explained how to balance a bike, but the first time I try I'll just fall off. Over and over. The concept is foreign to the mind. But at some point, I will get a few feet, then a few more feet, then eventually I can just ride the darn thing. This is similar to how CTE starts working. It is not like anything else I've done in pool before, and it takes some puppeteering before the mind takes control and "gets it."

The important thing in the beginning is to focus on being EXACT. See both lines, lock them in, move straight into the cueball from that position with the half tip offset, and pivot to center cue ball. Don't worry about shot recognition at first, just follow through the demonstration shots. Shoot them over and over. When you miss, try to figure out why. If you make it, try to repeat that process. I WILL COME TO YOU. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but it will.

When I started on CTE, it was very similar. Confusing. Frustrating. But I just persevered and went through the motions. I pretty quickly (within days) got to where I could set up the shots and pocket them fairly consistently. Then I started trying to implement the system just by breaking and shooting random balls... so this starts the work on shot recognition. After some time (weeks) the "aha" moment began, and the strength of the entire system VERY quickly came up to speed. It's like a bell curve, it may take weeks to get to 15%, then "aha" and several days to reach 90%, then slowly creep your way to 99% and then the rest of your life refining it as close to 100% as you can :)

You have just started CTE, you are only days into it and taken it to the table a handful of times. You are very early to the system, there is no way around it but to put in the time to get there. I've played trumpet for 30+ years and I can make a very pure tone. But I can't take a person new to the concept of wind instruments and get that tone without them putting in weeks to months of practice. NO amount of explaining will make it happen! Put your lips here, take a breath, blow. Not a chance. You have to just keep playing until it happens. CTE isn't all that different IMHO (but on a MUCH smaller scale, trumpets are extremely difficult to become proficient ;)

Just to add, Stan is always very helpful via email. He will answer your CTE/Pro1 specific questions.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Awhile back, a poster recommended reverse engineering the system:

If you already aim using the GB, double distance or 90/90... or use the arrow.

- Get on the shot line with your tip at center CB.
- Pivot away from the center by one tip, or so, and memorize that visual.
- Do this for every cut angle.

I'm just the messenger.:smile:

Thank you, that makes real sense.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Okie:
If I must place my bridge hand on the shot line then I must know the shot line. How does this system show me the shot line?
mohrt:... Your instinct and experience tells you where to aim.
This is the obvious answer. The obvious question is how does CTE assist your instinct and experience?

...I have spent considerable time yesterday and today and I find no way to arrive at this point without placing my bridge hand in exactly the correct spot and cannot find any specific information in the DVD as to how to determine that spot.
It's pretty clear that you determine that spot using your instinct and experience, assisted by the preshot discipline of using the system alignments. If we could get the system users to stop self-detonating whenever "instinct and experience" is mentioned, we might (some day) have a conversation about how that assistance works.

pj
chgo
 

champ2107

Banned
If I didn't want it to work I wouldn't be working on it. I just can't see the ****ing spot to put my hand down in order to make it work without somehow aiming. I've shot hundreds of shots trying it. Some go in and some do not. You see now why I didn't ask for or want your help? This thread has already gotten ugly due to your "help". Thanks Neil, Mohrt, Scott for trying to help me. I'll figure it out or not. Can't take this shit any more.

i have sent you pictures,videos in pm that i will not put public in detal and tell you to get back to me and you don't? if your under the illusion that you never miss with a cte system your mistaken, your in the learning process right now, you will miss a lot. All these inexperienced cte user that think they know it all with there misinformation has made a mess of this all.
 
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