Red Circle CB

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know there's been several threads about various cue balls and their supposed properties, but I wanted to share my recent experiences and get some new opinions.

I never thought much about cue balls until I finally got my own table four years ago. After all, at the places I've played most of my life, you didn't have much choice but to use the big ball. Since then I've gotten a measles ball, a Rempe training ball, a blue circle ball that came with my Centennials, and the Aramith ball I got with the Premier set that came with my table.

I've read a lot here about the red circle ball being the choice of rotation players because it is "zingier", but I took that talk with a grain of salt. Last month I started league at the local pool room, and they use the red circle ball. The ball definitely seemed easier to draw for me, so I bought one about a month ago and have been using it exclusively ever since.

Now, what has got me really intrigued about the ball is not so much how I can move it, but how clean it stays. I just realized the other day that I haven't cleaned it once since I got it a month ago. Chalk doesn't seem to stick to it at all. Masters, Black Diamond, Magic Chalk, Cuel... even Kamui barely adheres to it.

I just went down to the table and smeared as much Kamui lipstick on my tip as I could get to stick to it, hit the ball square in the middle of the red circle, and took a look at it. There were a few tiny specks of chalk stuck to the surface, but they wiped away so easily it was ridiculous.

BTW the chalk grabs the ball fine. I can get all the spin I want, just no chalk stays on the ball after the hit.

Thoughts? Are all red circles like this, or did just I end up with a magic CB?
 

Mark Griffin

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Years ago, I decided to use red circle Cue Balls when I opened the Anchorage Billiard Palace. We were using Simonis 760 - which is faster than the 860. (860 came out a couple years later).

The main reason was the hardness of the finish. The red circle was the only ball that would not scar from use with the Simonis. I have heard that the temperature at the point of friction between cloth and cue ball can approach 600 degrees (breaking, masse etc.) and I'm convinced the other balls would actually 'melt' a little from the use. not noticeable in 14.1 or one pocket. But any power game and it became very noticeable.

Over the years, I pretty sure they have changed the formula of the balls - because they are known to have a different color or exhibit different behavior.

I'm still a fan of the red circle - and it plays quite differently than the measle ball.

Just a trip down memory lane...........

Markg
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know there's been several threads about various cue balls and their supposed properties, but I wanted to share my recent experiences and get some new opinions.

I never thought much about cue balls until I finally got my own table four years ago. After all, at the places I've played most of my life, you didn't have much choice but to use the big ball. Since then I've gotten a measles ball, a Rempe training ball, a blue circle ball that came with my Centennials, and the Aramith ball I got with the Premier set that came with my table.

I've read a lot here about the red circle ball being the choice of rotation players because it is "zingier", but I took that talk with a grain of salt. Last month I started league at the local pool room, and they use the red circle ball. The ball definitely seemed easier to draw for me, so I bought one about a month ago and have been using it exclusively ever since.

Now, what has got me really intrigued about the ball is not so much how I can move it, but how clean it stays. I just realized the other day that I haven't cleaned it once since I got it a month ago. Chalk doesn't seem to stick to it at all. Masters, Black Diamond, Magic Chalk, Cuel... even Kamui barely adheres to it.

I just went down to the table and smeared as much Kamui lipstick on my tip as I could get to stick to it, hit the ball square in the middle of the red circle, and took a look at it. There were a few tiny specks of chalk stuck to the surface, but they wiped away so easily it was ridiculous.

BTW the chalk grabs the ball fine. I can get all the spin I want, just no chalk stays on the ball after the hit.

Thoughts? Are all red circles like this, or did just I end up with a magic CB?

Easier to draw and harder to follow. That's my finding. It plays like a lighter ball. It just doesn't seem to match any set. But if you use it with Brunswick Centennials, you will really notice the draw and follow factor in a big way.

Some have posted here that the weight is the same as other object balls. Maybe so, but then it's the composition but the ball definitely plays lighter. If you try a force-follow shot, it may jump after impact with the ob. Try it.
 

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Years ago, I decided to use red circle Cue Balls when I opened the Anchorage Billiard Palace. We were using Simonis 760 - which is faster than the 860. (860 came out a couple years later).

The main reason was the hardness of the finish. The red circle was the only ball that would not scar from use with the Simonis. I have heard that the temperature at the point of friction between cloth and cue ball can approach 600 degrees (breaking, masse etc.) and I'm convinced the other balls would actually 'melt' a little from the use. not noticeable in 14.1 or one pocket. But any power game and it became very noticeable.

Over the years, I pretty sure they have changed the formula of the balls - because they are known to have a different color or exhibit different behavior.

I'm still a fan of the red circle - and it plays quite differently than the measle ball.

Just a trip down memory lane...........

Markg

Thanks for sharing your experience, Mark.

I'd love to try an old one out for comparison. My brand new ball is a different color, more yellow than the measle ball, or even the older blue circle I have. The coating also seems different. Deeper looking and more lustrous, so to speak. I think it may be harder, but I have no way of testing for that. There are less scuffs from hard hits on it, and it seems to play very different from the blue circle and the measle ball.

It draws great, but it also follows great. I've read that the red circle is lighter than the other CBs, but I weighed mine on my balance beam and it is heavier. 168.0 grams, vs. 167.5 grams for the measle ball (my blue circle is only 166.0 grams). In spite of being heavier, it seems more reactive to the OB. Do you think this may be because it has a higher COR due to a harder finish?

Anyway, I love using it and with likely use it whenever I can. If I may ask, does the new Cyclop CB have a new, harder finish than the old one? I haven't read any complaints here about it like the claims being made about the original one.
 

Bank it

Uh Huh, Sounds Legit
Silver Member
The reason is the finish of a RC ball is a Carom finish which is different from any ball set Saluc/Aramith makes. This is why it stays cleaner, seems Zingier as you put it. Many like to say it's a "lighter" ball but it's not. Per Saluc the RC weighs the same as other cue balls when new within their normal tolerance variations. It is the balls carom finish that makes it react the way it does.
 

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The reason is the finish of a RC ball is a Carom finish which is different from any ball set Saluc/Aramith makes. This is why it stays cleaner, seems Zingier as you put it. Many like to say it's a "lighter" ball but it's not. Per Saluc the RC weighs the same as other cue balls when new within their normal tolerance variations. It is the balls carom finish that makes it react the way it does.

Knowing that about the finish, it makes sense to me that it acts the way it does.

I just went down and gave it a good cleaning with some Novus 2 on a buffing wheel. Apparently I should clean it more often, because even though it didn't show chalk marks, it must have been dirty with finger grime and such because it plays better than it did before the cleaning. The ball draws with ease, but follow is easy as well. I really like it a lot, and can see why it is the CB ball of choice for many.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Gold Member
Silver Member
I had practiced for one of Mark's tournaments with the measel ball, then they brought down a bunch of red circles and I couldn't believe the draw difference. Hit a ball to draw 1 foot and got 3 feet!

Anyway, my understanding is, although the weight and dimensions are similar to the blue circle, the different action is because of the surface finish. The red circle is made with a different resin blend that finishes up differently, so it has different friction properties. It is a stand alone product that is not necessarily tied in with any set. I notice it more on draw shots than anything else.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
One of the problems with the BCA (which is a trade organization) also being the governing body back in the day was that they lowered standards by increasing tolerances.

Two balls within the tolerance now can be rather different.

The reason was so that balls that would not make the old tight tolerance would not have to be discarded & hence less waste & more profit for the manufacturer.

A conflict of interest definitely existed.

The hall I mostly frequent had red circle cue balls & Centennial object balls.

It's very easier to draw & that is good for a room owner because more customers are satisfied with their 'ability' to draw the ball & they have more fun & come back more often to have fun more often. If they get discouraged, some don't come back as often or perhaps not at all.

I was playing one day just hitting balls by myself & I shot a tight slight cut back bank where it has to be hit with a slight over cut & held with spin to avoid the double kiss & still pocket the ball.

I missed it...

6 times.

I went & got an Arimith Logo Cue Ball from one of the Diamond tables that the set came with & I set it up again and...

I made it 4 times in a row.

I set it up again for the red circle & missed it 3 times in a row.

I've also scratched with it on shots that there is no way in hell that the ball should scratch.

The only thing that I could figure is like Fran Crimi says, the ball climbs the OB & in my cases, because of english it also turned & the axis of rotation changed & the ball came down with a different spin axis & scratched when there was no way in hell that it should have done so.

I hate the red circle cue ball.

I pointed out some of the faults to different individuals & not too long ago the hall went to all Arimith Logo balls.

They are a much better fit for the Centennial balls even if not a perfect fit. But... the balls play much more like a family instead of having a bastard brother.

Some people can not feel or tell the difference between cue balls & they think that it does not make a difference.

Someone here told the story about Earl & how he had warmed up for his first match & when he went to play it there was a different cue ball on the tournament table & he put on a rather loud & significant 'fireworks' display.

"How can you expect me to warm up for over on hour & then come play with a totally different cue ball.', I think that is the polite refined version.

Anyway, that's my red circle stories, but also I do find that the Arimith Logo ball does get more chalk on it & actually needs to be cleaned during play while the red circle did not.
 
Last edited:

K2Kraze

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Could you folks that have the Red Circle cue balls, post pics for us? Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BogeyFree

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm finding it hard to believe that a break or masse shot produces temps of 600 degress between ball and cloth.
 

WildWing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The red circle is definitely a different composition from the others. It starts out a bit more yellow, and a bit translucent looking, compared to blue circle, blue dot, measle, aramath pro, etc. Most of them look about like the blue dot here, next to the red circle. The red circle also stays very clean. Chalk marks wipe off easily, as well as miscue marks. I'm not sure about the carom composition, as I've seen some pretty nasty carom balls that didn't stay as clean. I'm also not so sure about the "speed" or "zippyness" or whatever else you want to bestow on the red circle. But, no mater it's age, it stays clean, and is easier to wipe marks off than others.

All the best,
WW
 

Attachments

  • 20131013_205339.jpg
    20131013_205339.jpg
    82.4 KB · Views: 525

nancewayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Red Circle Cue Ball info.

I noticed in the pic., the color of the Red Circle cue ball is more yellow than the other one. Phenolic resin (plastic) used in these balls will react to Ultra Violet light (including sunlight). If a phenolic ball is stored, (absent of light), it will turn yellow over time. When back out in the light (indoor or outdoor), it will very slowly start lightening in color toward a more white color. FYI.

I know, as I have been experimenting with a set of Centennial balls, leaving them in the window exposed to natural light and over time, they have lightening !



The red circle is definitely a different composition from the others. It starts out a bit more yellow, and a bit translucent looking, compared to blue circle, blue dot, measle, aramath pro, etc. Most of them look about like the blue dot here, next to the red circle. The red circle also stays very clean. Chalk marks wipe off easily, as well as miscue marks. I'm not sure about the carom composition, as I've seen some pretty nasty carom balls that didn't stay as clean. I'm also not so sure about the "speed" or "zippyness" or whatever else you want to bestow on the red circle. But, no mater it's age, it stays clean, and is easier to wipe marks off than others.

All the best,
WW
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The red circle is lighter than the blue circle centennial factory cue ball. It allows the shooter to draw out of a problem. The blue circle, being the same weight as the obj. balls was a much better cue ball for 14.1 and the churning needed to move clusters in the old days with slow directional rag cloth.
 

Bank it

Uh Huh, Sounds Legit
Silver Member
The red circle is lighter than the blue circle centennial factory cue ball. It allows the shooter to draw out of a problem. The blue circle, being the same weight as the obj. balls was a much better cue ball for 14.1 and the churning needed to move clusters in the old days with slow directional rag cloth.


No it is not "lighter", It is made with a different resin with a Carom finish, think 3 cushion balls. This is what makes it "hot".

Blue Circle is made with same material as the Centennial balls it comes with which is why it doesn't move the same. This concludes the lesson for today.
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No it is not "lighter", It is made with a different resin with a Carom finish, think 3 cushion balls. This is what makes it "hot".

Blue Circle is made with same material as the Centennial balls it comes with which is why it doesn't move the same. This concludes the lesson for today.

I'm just going by what Bob Osborn said in the early 70's when he brought one to CO to play Grady. It weighed in lighter at that time, it always drew more. But back then I'd seen at least 15 different types of cue balls in the years of play. Black dots, black circles, solid red dots, blue dots and some without marks.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
The red circle is lighter than the blue circle centennial factory cue ball. It allows the shooter to draw out of a problem. The blue circle, being the same weight as the obj. balls was a much better cue ball for 14.1 and the churning needed to move clusters in the old days with slow directional rag cloth.

I don't think the color coding has meant anything since the Hyatt days...
...back then, the 'blue dot' was indeed the straight pool player's cue ball...
...it was heavier than a 'red dot'.
the 'green dot' would draw forever.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I won't speak to the weight or how easy/hard to draw/follow, but my Aramith cue ball that came with my set gets hard-to-remove chalk spots all over it, whereas my measles and red circle cue balls stay clean.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
I am fairy sure that the red circle cue ball is a couple to a few tenths of an ounce lighter than a Centennial cue ball & also may be a couple to a few mm less in diameter along with being made of the different material.

The point is that is plays different with almost any & every set it is put with & that IMO is not a good thing.

It completely changes the game in what can be done by normal means & that is not good.

It's almost like playing on a great table with a great set of balls & then using some type of coin table cue ball, but it plays in the opposite direction of what it makes easy & more difficult.

I do not know, but it may have come out of the process of the BCA lowering the standard tolerances for balls & a way to make more profit was found & it hen got popular because it can be drawn easily & the general population liked being able to do what they had seen good players do.

Hence, to me it is sort of a cheat in that regard, but worse, it actually changes how the game must be played.

All 16 balls should be the SAME. I think that is what they now call a "Mike Drop".
 
Top