Ref Rulings in Vegas

[eastcoast_chris]

I had a run-in with the "Refs" in Vegas...

First match, I'm down 4-3 (race to 5)... opponent breaking.

He breaks... cue ball goes directly in the side pocket... I stand up... approach the table and notice the 8 ball is rolling slowly towards the corner pocket.... it goes in... On instinct, I catch the 8 ball AFTER it is in the pocket, but not down into the table. I say to my opponent that I'll spot it and take the table as it lies. (I was such an easy out from there!)

He says OK! , then a refs steps in who happened to be near by and doesn't really make any call, just says that I shouldn't be touching the ball.... a lot of arguing goes on and the ref doesn't know the correct call.... head ref is called over. He doesn't have a definitive answer either... then he thinks about it and says...

"Since the ball affected by your action was a game winning ball, then you get an unsportsmanlike warning and it is loss of game" (4-3 down, so this meant loss of match too)

How can any ball be a game winning ball on the break in 8 ball when the 8 ball on the break isn't a win!

And I didn't touch the 8 ball while it was on the table.

I was stupid for touching the ball, but as I said, instinct took over and I had made 3 - 8's on the breaks while practising the day before.

And my opponent took the win .... I just said "Karma is gonna get you".... he went 0-2 from there.

I heard numerous complaints about bad calls from refs and even saw a few that both players agreed on, but the "ref" saw different.

 

[klockdoc]

Bad call by the Refs......again

I had a run-in with the "Refs" in Vegas...

First match, I'm down 4-3 (race to 5)... opponent breaking.

He breaks... cue ball goes directly in the side pocket... I stand up... approach the table and notice the 8 ball is rolling slowly towards the corner pocket.... it goes in... On instinct, I catch the 8 ball AFTER it is in the pocket, but not down into the table. I say to my opponent that I'll spot it and take the table as it lies. (I was such an easy out from there!)

He says OK! , then a refs steps in who happened to be near by and doesn't really make any call, just says that I shouldn't be touching the ball.... a lot of arguing goes on and the ref doesn't know the correct call.... head ref is called over. He doesn't have a definitive answer either... then he thinks about it and says...

"Since the ball affected by your action was a game winning ball, then you get an unsportsmanlike warning and it is loss of game" (4-3 down, so this meant loss of match too)

How can any ball be a game winning ball on the break in 8 ball when the 8 ball on the break isn't a win!

And I didn't touch the 8 ball while it was on the table.

I was stupid for touching the ball, but as I said, instinct took over and I had made 3 - 8's on the breaks while practising the day before.

And my opponent took the win .... I just said "Karma is gonna get you".... he went 0-2 from there.

I heard numerous complaints about bad calls from refs and even saw a few that both players agreed on, but the "ref" saw different.

Similar situation happened with my daughter, but, it was situation where the cue ball was picked up and handed to the opponent in an intentional foul/ball in hand situation. (you cannot do that)

When this is done, (as explained by the ref), the call is an unsportmanship conduct and goes as follows;

Name is entered into a book and penalties as listed:
1) Warning
2) Loss of game
3) Loss of match

What you did was a foul. You cannot stop/catch the CB or any ball from going/dropping in the pocket. New ruling, they state let the 8 ball drop. Ref will retrieve it for you.

Correct call would have been a foul against you. Ball in hand for your opponent. (However, I do not think the Ref should have gotten involved unless he was called over for a ruling).

 

[Neil]

................

 

[satman]

You don't call kisses

Say a guy is going to shoot a 1 - 2 combo into the corner pocket, or a carom, or kick or whatever. Does he have to announce that he is doing a kick/combo/whatever, or can he just call the 2 in the corner and make the legal shot?
I think it should be call ball and pocket. All of this calling every kiss, carom or rail is a breeding ground for arguement. 2 in the corner should be enough of an announcement of intention in my opinion.
I hate to win on a technicality because someone called a ball clean and it touched an obstructing ball on the way in...

Banger

It's not calling every little thing. If it's a 1-2 combo, you call the 1 in the corner and designate what corner. If you haven't played multiple matches in the Vegas settings, you have nop idea what you run into. Especially with VNEA. You have players from 10 different country's, some of whom, speak NO English at all. You have very courteous players, very honest ones, and some loud and obnoxious cheater types. One guy from New Zealand a few years back was so bad, the Ref's threatened to bar him from the rest of the team event for all the crap he was doing.
I understand where Russ is coming from, everyone on my team plays honest pool. In normal league play, we sometimes let push shots, and some minor fouls slide to the lesser players, and then explain the rule to them after the game. And it's not like we nit-pik every little rule in the book in Vegas. But you have to protect yourself with calling banks and kisses.

 

[jwilliams]

It's not calling every little thing. If it's a 1-2 combo, you call the 1 in the corner and designate what corner. If you haven't played multiple matches in the Vegas settings, you have nop idea what you run into. Especially with VNEA. You have players from 10 different country's, some of whom, speak NO English at all. You have very courteous players, very honest ones, and some loud and obnoxious cheater types. One guy from New Zealand a few years back was so bad, the Ref's threatened to bar him from the rest of the team event for all the crap he was doing.
I understand where Russ is coming from, everyone on my team plays honest pool. In normal league play, we sometimes let push shots, and some minor fouls slide to the lesser players, and then explain the rule to them after the game. And it's not like we nit-pik every little rule in the book in Vegas. But you have to protect yourself with calling banks and kisses.

I'm not saying you shouldn't ever invoke the rules...sometimes they are necessary...I think the point though is this...if it's an obvious 1 railer and the guy banks it one rail and doesn't call it...I'm keeping my mouth shut...I know what he meant. If it looks like an obvious 1 railer and he banks it 2 rails and doesn't call it...then I'm going to say something. Same thing with combos...I shot no brainers while I was out there and didn't have anyone call them on me and on the flip side I gave as good as I got...you can generally tell what the other guy is or isn't trying...and if it's really that questionable then I'd say call the rule into effect.

 

[satman]

I know

I'm not saying you shouldn't ever invoke the rules...sometimes they are necessary...I think the point though is this...if it's an obvious 1 railer and the guy banks it one rail and doesn't call it...I'm keeping my mouth shut...I know what he meant. If it looks like an obvious 1 railer and he banks it 2 rails and doesn't call it...then I'm going to say something. Same thing with combos...I shot no brainers while I was out there and didn't have anyone call them on me and on the flip side I gave as good as I got...you can generally tell what the other guy is or isn't trying...and if it's really that questionable then I'd say call the rule into effect.

But in my case, the set I was playing was with a guy who got really grumpy the first time I called a ref for a close hit. I normally don't do that, but from where I was sitting, and the last view I had of the ball, it looked like it wouldn't go without a bad hit. I had never seen this guy play before, and our match was a guaranteed $2000 difference. He may have hit my ball on the carom and not admitted it. Then when he shot the cross-side bank, had it gone 2 rails, he could have argued it was obvious, or said he called it. I didn't call a foul on him for not calling the bank, but it needs to be called.
Trust me, they have learned over the years how some of this stuff works. Thats why you are required to call those particular type things and make sure your opponent acknowledges thats your shot.
I always show total respect for the opponent, but I won't let them take advantage of the situation either.

 

[ironman]

I experienced two experiences I would like to share.

1. The new rule about calling banks or combination shots clearly states that the shot must be called, whether or not the opponent has any doubt about the shot. I had a match in which my opponent did not call the combination shot, and I stepped up to the table to take my turn. He said it was obvious, and I pointed out the new rule. We called the ref over and he told the ref he gestured toward the pocket. The new rule does not include any text about a motion or gesture. The ref ruled that my opponents gesture was enough. This interpretation did not seem correct to me.

2. Later in the same match, we were hill-hill. Our guy broke and scratched on the break. The opponent put the cueball way down by the foot spot and began to line up his shot. His teammates gestured and called out "behind the head string" which is blatant coaching.

The same ref ruled that the opponent would receive a warning. Our captain protested and called in the chief ref, and the game was suspended. After about 20 minutes, the chief ref ruled that our player should rebreak, instead of getting ball in hand.

Are these interpretations common?
Any insight would be appreciated.

Sounds like a bunch of kids at Boys Club playing rotation.

 

[satman]

Exactly

Sounds like a bunch of kids at Boys Club playing rotation.

That's about what it's like sometimes. A grudge match at the local Boys Club. And occasionally, you need a ref, and you may get some local kid who has his own set of rules form the 4 foot table he has in his garage.

These statements are not intended to hurt anyone's reputation who referees in Vegas or State events. I know some great ref's, and if they don't know the proper ruling, they ain't afraid to check on it. But out of 15 ref's, there are probly 2 or 3 who have no clue, and just get on that power trip.

 

[Russ Chewning]

He said he was on the hill and ran out. Goes over to shake his opponents hand, and his opponent says he didn't win yet. Says that game put him on the hill.

I had this happen in a military tournament in Mannheim, Germany. All ladies in the tournament got spotted 2 games by the guys, and it was 9 ball, race to 5. I was playing a woman 1rst or 2nd round. I had a slow start, and before I know it, I am down 4-0. I shut her down from that point out, and get the next 5 games.

She insists it was only my hill game. I then detail for her how I won each of the 5 games. She sets her jaw, and insists that it is the hill game. She was an older lady, and had her husband there as a "witness", so I know that if I go get the tournament director, I am going to lose this argument.

I say "whatever", and tell her to rack 'em. Being stupid, I play angry and jaw a ball. She gets out, and I am dumped in the loser's bracket. I then go on to play some of my best pool, and go all the way to the finals. Who is waiting for me? Not the other lady, who had went out much earlier in the tournament, but it was the US Army Europe Women's 9 Ball champion from the year prior.

And I get to spot her two games in a race to 5. Yippee!!

I double-dip her to win the tournament, only giving up 1 game in two sets.

And karma was satisfied...

Russ

 

[Russ Chewning]

Holy Moly.. I think my reply on this thread has garnered more positive rep points than anything I ever posted in NPR, EVER..Lol..

Either way, I do not look down on Jim, satman, or others wishing to protect themselves in a match. I would do the same.

It's just that from the other side of the token, I enjoy playing the game as a gentleman, and expecting that my opponent will do so as well, until they prove otherwise.

For me personally, beating a person trying to cheat me is one of the sweetest things in life. It's kind of an ego thing, I guess. (I have no shortage of ego, if you all had not noticed.. ) If I can beat someone WHILE they are attempting to get over on me, it somewhat reinforces the idea, that I am JUST PLAIN BETTER, heh heh.

Keep in mind, even with all that, I would probably take extra measures to make sure i am calling all my banks, combos, and whatnot, being as I started out many years as a bar player, and just saw more shot possibilities than your average banger could envision. I called one or two "time shots" in my days playing wide-open, run out at all costs bar table 8 ball.

Russ

 

[jwilliams]

But in my case, the set I was playing was with a guy who got really grumpy the first time I called a ref for a close hit. I normally don't do that, but from where I was sitting, and the last view I had of the ball, it looked like it wouldn't go without a bad hit. I had never seen this guy play before, and our match was a guaranteed $2000 difference. He may have hit my ball on the carom and not admitted it. Then when he shot the cross-side bank, had it gone 2 rails, he could have argued it was obvious, or said he called it. I didn't call a foul on him for not calling the bank, but it needs to be called.
Trust me, they have learned over the years how some of this stuff works. Thats why you are required to call those particular type things and make sure your opponent acknowledges thats your shot.
I always show total respect for the opponent, but I won't let them take advantage of the situation either.

In these cases though, I completely agree with you. If it's a close hit out there you definitely need to call a ref to at least watch the hit, and even then I'd say you're 50/50 to get a good call...depending on the ref. of course. I swear some of them have never played pool in there life! *lol* (No disrespect ment to the ones that do a fine job!) And I do agree that it's in everyone's best interest to call even the one railers and hanging combos...my only point was that I'm not going to bust the guy on a no brainer if he happens to forget because he's in the zone or whatever... I always tried to remember to call them, even what I thought they were obvious ones but I admit I slipped up my fair share...Sadly, I've always kind of figured if the guy is going to lie to me about what he actually meant to do, he's probably just as likely to lie to the ref about whether or not he called...and it's been my experience out there that the refs tend to side with the shooter if in doubt. Not sure that's always a good thing...but then again, what else can they do if there aren't any unbiased witnesses...

 

[ne14tennis]

I had a run-in with the "Refs" in Vegas...

First match, I'm down 4-3 (race to 5)... opponent breaking.

He breaks... cue ball goes directly in the side pocket... I stand up... approach the table and notice the 8 ball is rolling slowly towards the corner pocket.... it goes in... On instinct, I catch the 8 ball AFTER it is in the pocket, but not down into the table. I say to my opponent that I'll spot it and take the table as it lies. (I was such an easy out from there!)

He says OK! , then a refs steps in who happened to be near by and doesn't really make any call, just says that I shouldn't be touching the ball.... a lot of arguing goes on and the ref doesn't know the correct call.... head ref is called over. He doesn't have a definitive answer either... then he thinks about it and says...

"Since the ball affected by your action was a game winning ball, then you get an unsportsmanlike warning and it is loss of game" (4-3 down, so this meant loss of match too)

How can any ball be a game winning ball on the break in 8 ball when the 8 ball on the break isn't a win!

And I didn't touch the 8 ball while it was on the table.

I was stupid for touching the ball, but as I said, instinct took over and I had made 3 - 8's on the breaks while practising the day before.

And my opponent took the win .... I just said "Karma is gonna get you".... he went 0-2 from there.

I heard numerous complaints about bad calls from refs and even saw a few that both players agreed on, but the "ref" saw different.

I always laugh at some of these posts after the big tournaments.

I'm sorry but as a referee (And I think I'm a good one and fair) it amuses me that the referees get 99% of the blame when a player loses a call, game or match.

So many players either don't read the rulebook or they read it but don't take the time to understand it.

The rulle is as follows:

2.9 Loss of Game
You lose the game if:
a. you illegally pocket the 8-ball;
b. you jump the 8-ball off the table on any shot other than the break;
c. you pocket the 8-ball on the same shot as the last ball of your group;
d. you violate Rule 1.40 (c) through (f) when the 8-ball is either your legal object ball or involved in the violation in any way.e. you pocket the 8-ball on a bank shot that you do not call.

Rule 1.40 c thru f states:
c. stop or deflect any ball that is in motion;
d. catch any ball that is falling into a pocket;
e. place your hand into a pocket while any ball is in motion;
f. cause a ball to move by contacting or moving the cloth, bed, or table in any way.

Gee, I guess it is a loss of game if you stop the 8 ball from going into the hole!

Is it a courtesy to stop it from falling and prevent delays....of course it is.

How many times has a player put his hand in a pocket to catch a ball, the ball rattles and then doesn't fall or the player tries to pull his hand out of the way and they move the ball????

The new rules are just fine.......players need to play by and with the rules.

But this is just MHO

 

[klockdoc]

I always laugh at some of these posts after the big tournaments.

I'm sorry but as a referee (And I think I'm a good one and fair) it amuses me that the referees get 99% of the blame when a player loses a call, game or match.

So many players either don't read the rulebook or they read it but don't take the time to understand it.

The rulle is as follows:

2.9 Loss of Game
You lose the game if:
a. you illegally pocket the 8-ball;
b. you jump the 8-ball off the table on any shot other than the break;
c. you pocket the 8-ball on the same shot as the last ball of your group;
d. you violate Rule 1.40 (c) through (f) when the 8-ball is either your legal object ball or involved in the violation in any way.e. you pocket the 8-ball on a bank shot that you do not call.

Rule 1.40 c thru f states:
c. stop or deflect any ball that is in motion;
d. catch any ball that is falling into a pocket;
e. place your hand into a pocket while any ball is in motion;
f. cause a ball to move by contacting or moving the cloth, bed, or table in any way.

Gee, I guess it is a loss of game if you stop the 8 ball from going into the hole!

Is it a courtesy to stop it from falling and prevent delays....of course it is.

How many times has a player put his hand in a pocket to catch a ball, the ball rattles and then doesn't fall or the player tries to pull his hand out of the way and they move the ball????

The new rules are just fine.......players need to play by and with the rules.

But this is just MHO

Appreciate your input. Always god to see a ref that is good and knowledgeable of the sport.

However, I have one question.. The OP's original statement was related to BCA rulings. In BCA, you cannot lose the game by pocketing the 8 ball on the break, nor, can you win. The rules that you posted do not imply that, so, therefore I am lead to believe that these rules pertain to some other league or organization. Is this correct, or, am I misinterpreting your post?

In BCA, new ruling, it is a ball in hand foul to try to stop or catch the CB or the 8 ball from falling in the pocket. (Probably any ball, but, I would not know why you would try to stop any other ball).

In this case, him stopping the 8 ball would constitute a BIH foul, not a loss of game. (because you cannot lose by making the 8 on the break and scratching, or, win by making the 8).

Let me ask you something else from you position of being a Referee. Should the Referee got involved in the game if not requested to do so?

 

[BRKNRUN]

I wonder if anyone in this thread was the person I heard/saw go balistic on a ref after a call was made.

This guy was flat out yelling at the ref....

"That was the worst call in history....You made the wrong F...ing call!!!!"

He then proceeded to start firing in the ramaining balls on the table a warp speed....(as the ref and opponent walked away)

All this while other matches were going on....at adjacent tables.....and these were all matches that were money round matches.

Bottom line....yes folks it is a gamble on getting the right call when a ref is called over to watch a hit.....However.....what is called is what is called....If you think that the call might go the wrong way....I would suggest you do what I do.....Don't even watch the shot....Look somewhere else if you have to and then look at the ref and see what call was made.......Then play on...

 

[nineballcc]

Also a ref...

I like Brknrun's suggestion....call the ref over, turn the other way and accept the ruling. I didn't have the opportunity to work Vegas this year, but I did the previous two years.

The biggest mistake I made ever was the very first call I had to make on my own after training. I was incredibly nervous, it's an extremely high pressure situation. I walked up to the table and watched the hit...saw it was a bad hit...and the words "good hit" flew out of my mouth. I looked at both players, and before I could say another word, they both said "bad hit". I felt like such an idiot...I apologized to both, but needless to say, neither of them called me back to the table after that. I have reffed other matches that one of the players has been in since then, and he trusts me now. It took me a while to get into the swing of it and drop the nerves, I still get nervous sometimes, especially if it's a very tight call.

It never ceases to amaze me the rules people use when calling hits for themselves that they bring into a tournament. So many times people assume that if the object ball is a cue chalk's width apart it will automatically be a foul unless you shoot elevated or away from the ball. The chalk was a suggested guideline for watching the shots, not an automatic double hit foul.

And the other is people who believe they've made a good hit just by elevating the cue, way too often the tip of the cue ends up directly under the cue ball after elevating, and the cue ball then contacts the cue a second time making that one a bad hit.

It is truly unfortunate that you have to have so many rules, and spell out so many situations, the more rules you have, the more rules somebody is going to use against you for reasons that were not the original intention of the ruling.

 

[klockdoc]

I like Brknrun's suggestion....call the ref over, turn the other way and accept the ruling. I didn't have the opportunity to work Vegas this year, but I did the previous two years.

The biggest mistake I made ever was the very first call I had to make on my own after training. I was incredibly nervous, it's an extremely high pressure situation. I walked up to the table and watched the hit...saw it was a bad hit...and the words "good hit" flew out of my mouth. I looked at both players, and before I could say another word, they both said "bad hit". I felt like such an idiot...I apologized to both, but needless to say, neither of them called me back to the table after that. I have reffed other matches that one of the players has been in since then, and he trusts me now. It took me a while to get into the swing of it and drop the nerves, I still get nervous sometimes, especially if it's a very tight call.

It never ceases to amaze me the rules people use when calling hits for themselves that they bring into a tournament. So many times people assume that if the object ball is a cue chalk's width apart it will automatically be a foul unless you shoot elevated or away from the ball. The chalk was a suggested guideline for watching the shots, not an automatic double hit foul.

And the other is people who believe they've made a good hit just by elevating the cue, way too often the tip of the cue ends up directly under the cue ball after elevating, and the cue ball then contacts the cue a second time making that one a bad hit.

It is truly unfortunate that you have to have so many rules, and spell out so many situations, the more rules you have, the more rules somebody is going to use against you for reasons that were not the original intention of the ruling.

I met what I considered to be a very knowledgeable and highly qualified referee this year at the BCA Nationals. When he was called over, he approached the table, asked the my opponent these questions...
what balls are yours, stripes or solids?
what are you going to do?
how are you going to do this?

From there he took that information, reviewed the table, took his position to where he could accurately survey the shot, then said, "okay, I'm ready"

After the call, I personally went and congratulated him on being thorough in his method of approaching the the shot. Good man.

 

[nineballcc]

Training!

Yep...they teach that in the training classes. It's been invaluable to me during my tournaments over the years...some players look at you like you're crazy when you ask them how are they going to shoot the shot. It does really make a big difference in what you should be watching.

I have to hand it to Bill Stock, Buddy Ike, Ken Schuman, Gibbi Tkach and Roger Glenn...they all had a big part in my training, and they really have put together a thorough training program that includes a full afternoon of ball physics, class time spent on handling difficult players and extremely difficult situations. They really are some of the most knowledgeable guys I've ever met.

 

[av84fun]

Appreciate your input. Always god to see a ref that is good and knowledgeable of the sport.

However, I have one question.. The OP's original statement was related to BCA rulings. In BCA, you cannot lose the game by pocketing the 8 ball on the break, nor, can you win. The rules that you posted do not imply that, so, therefore I am lead to believe that these rules pertain to some other league or organization. Is this correct, or, am I misinterpreting your post?

In BCA, new ruling, it is a ball in hand foul to try to stop or catch the CB or the 8 ball from falling in the pocket. (Probably any ball, but, I would not know why you would try to stop any other ball).

In this case, him stopping the 8 ball would constitute a BIH foul, not a loss of game. (because you cannot lose by making the 8 on the break and scratching, or, win by making the 8).
Let me ask you something else from you position of being a Referee. Should the Referee got involved in the game if not requested to do so?

Exactly. And rule 2.9 invoking 1.4 c-f only applies...

d. you violate Rule 1.40 (c) through (f) when the 8-ball is either your legal object ball or involved in the violation in any way.e. you pocket the 8-ball on a bank shot that you do not call.

That situation was not present in this case and calling an unsportsmanlike foul was preposterous.

BIH was deserved because catching balls like that should not be allowed but loss of game and MATCH??? Boo!

(-:

Regards,
Jim

 

[ne14tennis]

Appreciate your input. Always god to see a ref that is good and knowledgeable of the sport.

However, I have one question.. The OP's original statement was related to BCA rulings. In BCA, you cannot lose the game by pocketing the 8 ball on the break, nor, can you win. The rules that you posted do not imply that, so, therefore I am lead to believe that these rules pertain to some other league or organization. Is this correct, or, am I misinterpreting your post?

In BCA, new ruling, it is a ball in hand foul to try to stop or catch the CB or the 8 ball from falling in the pocket. (Probably any ball, but, I would not know why you would try to stop any other ball).

In this case, him stopping the 8 ball would constitute a BIH foul, not a loss of game. (because you cannot lose by making the 8 on the break and scratching, or, win by making the 8).

Let me ask you something else from you position of being a Referee. Should the Referee got involved in the game if not requested to do so?

That old saying "You can't win or lose on the break" applies to you can't win by making the 8 and you cant lose by scratching if you made the 8.

I suppose you can still say that, just remember to add "Unless you grab 8 as it's going into the pocket"

Your second question is No! I would never issue a ruling just because I was standing there in the area. Had I been in that situation I would have done nothing unless approached by either player. If I was asked, the correct answer is "My ruling is not binding since I wasn't at the table but this is the answer". When I say binding I mean that if I was called to watch the table, whatever I rule is law...period. If I am asked because I was standing there whatever I say doesn't have to be abided by if the guilty player chooses not to. If someone asks me "Was that a good hit" and I was not called to watch THAT HIT, then my answer is "I wasn't in position"

 

[av84fun]

That old saying "You can't win or lose on the break" applies to you can't win by making the 8 and you cant lose by scratching if you made the 8.

I suppose you can still say that, just remember to add "Unless you grab 8 as it's going into the pocket"

Your second question is No! I would never issue a ruling just because I was standing there in the area. Had I been in that situation I would have done nothing unless approached by either player. If I was asked, the correct answer is "My ruling is not binding since I wasn't at the table but this is the answer". When I say binding I mean that if I was called to watch the table, whatever I rule is law...period. If I am asked because I was standing there whatever I say doesn't have to be abided by if the guilty player chooses not to. If someone asks me "Was that a good hit" and I was not called to watch THAT HIT, then my answer is "I wasn't in position"

I could find no BCA League rules governing the conduct of refs. That doesn't mean they don't exist...just that I couldn't find any.

So, I referred to the WSRs and even they were deficient since they refer to ref duties as "recommended" which IMO doesn't constitue a "rule."

However, the WSRs provide as follows:

If a dispute arises between two players in an unrefereed match, and the area referee is asked to make a decision without having seen the cause of the dispute, he should be careful to understand the situation as completely as possible. This might include asking trusted witnesses, reviewing video tapes, or reenacting the shot. If the area referee is asked to determine whether a foul occurred and there is no evidence of the foul except the claim of one player while the other player claims that there was no foul, then it is assumed that no foul occurred.

Clearly, the ref can consult trusted sources and rule without having personally witnessed an incident.

The other thing that surprised me is your comment that your ruling is "law."

Again, I found no guidance in the BCA League Rules but the WSRs provide:

If a dispute arises between two players in an unrefereed match, and the area referee is asked to make a decision without having seen the cause of the dispute, he should be careful to understand the situation as completely as possible. This might include asking trusted witnesses, reviewing video tapes, or reenacting the shot. If the area referee is asked to determine whether a foul occurred and there is no evidence of the foul except the claim of one player while the other player claims that there was no foul, then it is assumed that no foul occurred.

7. Protest Ruling
If a player needs a decision to be taken, the first person to be contacted is the referee. The referee will form his decision by all means that seem suitable to him. If the player wants to protest against that ruling, he may contact the head referee and after that the tournament director. In any regular tournament, the tournament director?s decision is binding and final.

Finally, I was quite surpised that you stated that even IF you were standing in the area, you wouldn't rule unless asked to. You didn't necessarily say that you were in the area AND saw the shot so I follow you on that. But if you DID see the shot, would you refrain from ruling unless asked to?

Are there any BCA rules you could point me to that govern ref conduct or has the BCA adopted WSR rules on matters where it doesn't have its own?

I'm just curious.

THANKS!

Jim