Regarding Charlie Edwards Cue !!!

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Neil said:
I agree that E.W. is not a good business man. Do I believe he is trying to be? Yes. But he has a lot to learn yet. I believe his heart is in the right place by offering another cue to Charlie, but he should have understood better what was required of him to rectify the situation. Maybe one of his friends can sit him down and explain it to him.

I do hope he suceeds in his business. I applaud anyone that tries to make a go of it on their own. From the forums, apparently he does make a good cue, but screwed up on this one. Everyone is entitled to screw ups.

As far as the red rep campaign, you won't see me participating in it. I will not have my name associated with it. However, I do agree that his rep was rather high. But that easily happens when a few high count people rep him. It adds up quick.

The reason I won't participate, besides what I already mentioned, is that it seems like a herd of sheep on here. His rep was high, then one person says he will give green rep if you red rep him, and many have sold out their character to get green rep. I say sold out, because if you really thought he should have been red repped, you should have already done it. Not wait to hurt someone else just because you can gain from it. To me, that is lower than what E.W. has done.

E.W. will get his in his lack of orders from people on here. That's the result of his lack of business sense. And is warranted. Buyer beware. ect. But, to try and hurt someones business because you can get green rep for it, or because it's the game everyone seems to be playing today, and you want to fit in, is just wrong.

If the shoe fits, think about it. If it doesn't, then this doesn't apply to you.

Right now this thread is starting to look like a bunch of school kid bullies that just found someone to pick on. If you don't like his cues or his business practice, don't buy one. There is more than enough info on the forum for anyone to search and see what he is like.

Some of you may be doing this nonsense in the guise of making the forums better. You aren't. You are making them look pretty bad. Standing up for wrongs is one thing, this has gone way past that. And is one of the reasons a lot of great posters don't post anymore.
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Neil there are several points in your post that I wholeheartedly agree with.

I don't think EW is a good businessman. He might be Gods gift to cue making, but there is much more to running a business than collecting money. It seems that is all he's got dialed in.

I also agree that people should be allowed screw ups. Heck, we all screw up from time to time, in business and personally. I believe Wheat has gone way beyond just a screw up though.

As for the red rep campaign, I feel it is completely warranted. I will absolutely respect your and anyone else's decision not to push the red rep button. I think everyone should respect whatever you decide to do with your account, so long as it doesn't cause unwarranted problems for other members obviously. And there lies the problem the masses apparently have with Wheat.

So what happens when you use your account to abuse another member? What happens when you do what Wheat has done? What should happen to his account? The only thing we as members can do is voice our opinion. I took debate classes in junior high school and I certainly appreciate the compliment about my ability to sway the masses, but I don't think I can take credit so easily. The people who have left him rep bombs have done so of their own free will and many were doing it before I posted that I would do what I said I would. From our board leaders to some of the new guys, the masses are speaking symbolically. Heck, some were doing it before this thread string even began. I don't think anyone is selling out his or her character for some greenies. We all know how worthless the rep system has become. When I got my 11th greenie, there were only 17 other members that had maxed out their bar. I remember thinking that Gunn Slinger was the first person to max out with less than 1,000 posts. I thought that was awesome. It took me about 18 months to max mine out. Now there are pages and pages of new members with 11 squares and less than 50 posts.

The point is that the campaign is mostly symbolic. We as a community have decided, for the most part, that what he did was way over the top, not just a screw up.

If someone was looking from the outside and had not been keeping up with what has transpired, it may look like bullying. Anyone that looks a little deeper will see that it is well deserved. It is his actions, not my post that caused him the loss of his forum friends, including several of the forums' heavyweights.

You said, "To try and hurt someone's business because you can get green rep for it, or because it's the game everyone seems to be playing today, and you want to fit in, is just wrong." I absolutely agree; however, I don't think that is what's going on here. No one on this forum would ever suggest that messing with a persons business is a game. You're building a strawman. There are a multitude of successful business owners on here and this has never happened to another business owner that I can remember. The people that are leaving him red have made a decision all their own. We don't need this kind of dookie on our beloved AZ Billiards.

I don't think we're making the forum look bad at all. On the contrary, I think the masses are moving in the right direction. We have put our collective foot down and decided that this type of business practice will not go unpunished. Pressing the red rep bomb is not something that any of us should do to fit in. Pressing the red rep bomb is something that should be earned. I think he more than deserves all the red he gets.

Perhaps he will see the errors of his ways; perhaps he won't. Either way, he will know that there is something very wrong with the way he runs his AZB affairs.

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to voice your dissent and for that you have earned greenies from me. I respect a man that stands by his convictions in the face of overwhelming difference. Unfortunately, I can't give it to you until tomorrow because I've given out too much today.
 
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There is a big difference between bullies picking on someone in a schoolyard, and a community voicing legitimate complaints against a sorry excuse for a "business". Eddie should count himself lucky if the only side effect of his string of ludicrous posts and behavior is he loses a few green boxes in his profile.
 
You said, ?To try and hurt someone?s business because you can get green rep for it, or because it's the game everyone seems to be playing today, and you want to fit in, is just wrong.? I absolutely agree; however, I don?t think that is what?s going on here. No one on this forum would ever suggest that messing with a persons business is a game. You?re building a straw horse. There are a multitude of successful business owners on here and this has never happened to another business owner that I can remember. The people that are leaving him red have made a decision all their own. We don?t need this kind of dookie on our beloved AZ Billiards.
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The reason I said that, is because I have followed the threads. Throughout his history on here, he has amassed all that green rep. While hopefully they have, his business sense and his favor among members here hasn't really changed. So, why the campaign now? It should, and in some cases has, been happening all along, not just now.

The simple solution, is simply to put him on ignore, or just not respond to his posts unless buying a cue or asking questions about his cues or business- the same as with the other cue makers. All the reply that is needed by the non-E.W. members is for someone to perform a search before buying.

The forums need to get back to building up pool, not tearing it down as the major focus. Yeah, everyone likes to look at a train wreck, but that isn't going to help us any.
 
Neil said:
I agree that E.W. is not a good business man. Do I believe he is trying to be? Yes. But he has a lot to learn yet. I believe his heart is in the right place by offering another cue to Charlie, but he should have understood better what was required of him to rectify the situation. Maybe one of his friends can sit him down and explain it to him.

I do hope he suceeds in his business. I applaud anyone that tries to make a go of it on their own. From the forums, apparently he does make a good cue, but screwed up on this one. Everyone is entitled to screw ups.

As far as the red rep campaign, you won't see me participating in it. I will not have my name associated with it. However, I do agree that his rep was rather high. But that easily happens when a few high count people rep him. It adds up quick.

The reason I won't participate, besides what I already mentioned, is that it seems like a herd of sheep on here. His rep was high, then one person says he will give green rep if you red rep him, and many have sold out their character to get green rep. I say sold out, because if you really thought he should have been red repped, you should have already done it. Not wait to hurt someone else just because you can gain from it. To me, that is lower than what E.W. has done.

E.W. will get his in his lack of orders from people on here. That's the result of his lack of business sense. And is warranted. Buyer beware. ect. But, to try and hurt someones business because you can get green rep for it, or because it's the game everyone seems to be playing today, and you want to fit in, is just wrong.

If the shoe fits, think about it. If it doesn't, then this doesn't apply to you.

Right now this thread is starting to look like a bunch of school kid bullies that just found someone to pick on. If you don't like his cues or his business practice, don't buy one. There is more than enough info on the forum for anyone to search and see what he is like.

Some of you may be doing this nonsense in the guise of making the forums better. You aren't. You are making them look pretty bad. Standing up for wrongs is one thing, this has gone way past that. And is one of the reasons a lot of great posters don't post anymore.
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Wow, where do I start. First, anybody who thinks Eddie is even "trying to be a good businessman" or that "his heart is in the right place"...well, wow again, I don't even know how to address such rediculousness without it sounding like name calling, but suffice it to say that such a person wouldn't be using their head in any way, shape, or form, IMO.

He is also not a guy that just happened to have "screwed up on this one." You make it sound like he made one honest mistake and just one time. There are others besides Charlie that are waiting for cues from Eddie that are way past overdue. There are many others that he has lied to on many occasions. He has also shown a total disregard and lack of respect for more than one person, in fact, for an entire forum. Hell, he made more than one major "screw up" just on this one transaction alone. I bet I could count over a dozen just on this one transaction alone, with none of the ones counted being honest mistakes. Have you actually read any of the accounts about Mr Wheat?

I completely understand your point about the rep (although I disagree that it applies here). I don't know of anybody that has sold out their opinion or character for green reps here, and I sure hope that nobody does. I am against that completely. As for myself, I have said that I was going to give green rep to anyone that said they gave him red rep. That is just giving good rep for an action or an opinion that I agree with, which are the same reasons that good rep is given at any other time by any other person. I only want to know who I agree with so that I can rep them. I have not, nor has anyone else, asked anyone "for their vote" in exchange for good rep.

Obviously you don't realize it for some unknown reason, but Mr Wheat deserves to have all red rep showing. Sometimes it takes a "herd of sheep" to correct an injustice that nobody else is doing anything about. Many people are in danger of ordering a cue from Mr Wheat and getting screwed by him simply because they aren't aware of his practices (yes, even with the threads here and there). At least when they see the red rep it will make them check to see why, and then they can make an informed and educated decision about whether to go through with that purchase.

Eddie Wheat is not just a man who is just "not a good business man," or who just has a "lack of business sense" as you put it. Eddie Wheat is a man who has shown through a long history that he has a complete and total aversion to honesty, integrity, responsibility, and decency.
 
Neil,

Neil said:
I believe his heart is in the right place by offering another cue to Charlie,

I agree with a lot of your points as well, but, you're really off base here. He's rubbing everyone's nose in it by offering this to a person who had already said, in no uncertain terms that he wanted to have nothing to do with EW.

Everyone is entitled to screw ups.

But when you start to lie, you've gone beyond screw-ups! Once you tell a lie, you deserve no breaks.

I red-repped him early on before any campaign because he deserved it. I applaud the campaign because I find it unacceptably ironic for him to have "a reputation beyond repute" on my favorite forum.
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MM...back you your regularly scheduled rep rep party!
 
Neil said:
The reason I said that, is because I have followed the threads. Throughout his history on here, he has amassed all that green rep. While hopefully they have, his business sense and his favor among members here hasn't really changed. So, why the campaign now? It should, and in some cases has, been happening all along, not just now.

The simple solution, is simply to put him on ignore, or just not respond to his posts unless buying a cue or asking questions about his cues or business- the same as with the other cue makers. All the reply that is needed by the non-E.W. members is for someone to perform a search before buying.

The forums need to get back to building up pool, not tearing it down as the major focus. Yeah, everyone likes to look at a train wreck, but that isn't going to help us any.
Click to expand...
Throughout his history here, he has ammassed greenies from a lot of people who have changed their minds about him recently. There are several people in this thread that have voiced their change of opinion about him. The benefit of the doubt was given and lost. His favor among the members of this forum has dramatically changed since his last stab at Charlie (the GC).

I don't really think I'm gonna put him on ignore. I like to see all of AZB. This site rocks and I'm afraid I may miss a train wreck. ;)

Seriously though, I see the red rep campaign as building this site and pool up. One less huckster on this site can only be a good thing for AZB and pool in general.
 
this is to Neil, please note Neil; i have a Great Respect for you & to TX...

TX Poolnut said:
Neil there are several points in your post that I wholeheartedly agree with.

I don't think EW is a good businessman. He might be Gods gift to cue making, but there is much more to running a business than collecting money. It seems that is all he's got dialed in.

I also agree that people should be allowed screw ups. Heck, we all screw up from time to time, in business and personally. I believe Wheat has gone way beyond just a screw up though.

As for the red rep campaign, I feel it is completely warranted. I will absolutely respect your and anyone else's decision not to push the red rep button. I think everyone should respect whatever you decide to do with your account, so long as it doesn't cause unwarranted problems for other members obviously. And there lies the problem the masses apparently have with Wheat.

So what happens when you use your account to abuse another member? What happens when you do what Wheat has done? What should happen to his account? The only thing we as members can do is voice our opinion. I took debate classes in junior high school and I certainly appreciate the compliment about my ability to sway the masses, but I don't think I can take credit so easily. The people who have left him rep bombs have done so of their own free will and many were doing it before I posted that I would do what I said I would. From our board leaders to some of the new guys, the masses are speaking symbolically. Heck, some were doing it before this thread string even began. I don't think anyone is selling out his or her character for some greenies. We all know how worthless the rep system has become. When I got my 11th greenie, there were only 17 other members that had maxed out their bar. I remember thinking that Gunn Slinger was the first person to max out with less than 1,000 posts. I thought that was awesome. It took me about 18 months to max mine out. Now there are pages and pages of new members with 11 squares and less than 50 posts.

The point is that the campaign is mostly symbolic. We as a community have decided, for the most part, that what he did was way over the top, not just a screw up.

If someone was looking from the outside and had not been keeping up with what has transpired, it may look like bullying. Anyone that looks a little deeper will see that it is well deserved. It is his actions, not my post that caused him the loss of his forum friends, including several of the forums' heavyweights.

You said, "To try and hurt someone's business because you can get green rep for it, or because it's the game everyone seems to be playing today, and you want to fit in, is just wrong." I absolutely agree; however, I don't think that is what's going on here. No one on this forum would ever suggest that messing with a persons business is a game. You're building a straw horse. There are a multitude of successful business owners on here and this has never happened to another business owner that I can remember. The people that are leaving him red have made a decision all their own. We don't need this kind of dookie on our beloved AZ Billiards.

I don't think we're making the forum look bad at all. On the contrary, I think the masses are moving in the right direction. We have put our collective foot down and decided that this type of business practice will not go unpunished. Pressing the red rep bomb is not something that any of us should do to fit in. Pressing the red rep bomb is something that should be earned. I think he more than deserves all the red he gets.

Perhaps he will see the errors of his ways; perhaps he won't. Either way, he will know that there is something very wrong with the way he runs his AZB affairs.

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to voice your dissent and for that you have earned greenies from me. I respect a man that stands by his convictions in the face of overwhelming difference. Unfortunately, I can't give it to you until tomorrow because I've given out too much today.
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TX

while i think [you] Neil has so much to offer here on Az and how impressed i am knowing his thoughts, conscience and clarity of mind; i must tell you Neil, that your post was really EXCELLENT, but at the same time i must say that TX's post reply was one of the Best Posts i Have Ever Read here on Az.

thank you both for your thoughts, you guys make me a better man, thanks,
smokey
 
I have a serious issue with assclowns like Kevin Varney and Eddie Wheat. I make a damn solid cue. So does manwon, and JoeyA and davesutton. What we DON'T do is go on the assclown advertising campaign to drive our business.

I happen to be an authority on telephone and DSL testing. I am all over the world training people on this technology. I make cues as a passtime. Because of this, I don't really need to focus 100% of my time making cues. Here's my point. I take EXCESSIVELY long to make a cue. BUT, my customer knows that. AND, they never pay me a RED CENT until the cue is done. Now, I know I am incredibly fortunate to be in this situation. However, when someone prepays me for a repair, I have their money, therefore the next time I work on the lathe has been purchased by them, and it isn't my time. I have NEVER missed a deadline that I promised when I had money in hand. And, whenever I have missed a deadline, the customer was NEVER out of pocket.

I'm trashed.........my 2 cents. Eddie and Kevin should burn in cuemaking hell.
 
Ditto.........

What Poolplaya9 said. Surely NIEL has not followed EW an the Charlie Edwards thread. First let me refresh your memory. Charlie bought a finished 8pt. cue with 2 shafts with ivory ferrules an 58 inches in length. Well where do I start? How about it took 7 months to make one shaft an install 2 ivory ferrules. Then after 4 different shipping dates it finally arrives. The 8 pointer is really a 6 pointer an the 58 inch cue is really 59 an some change. I say nobody is pickin on Eddie hes doin it to himself an if anything is bad for pool it Eddie? Whats your agenda Neil are you kin to Eddie, trying to right a wrong or is it something else.Hope this helps.
Respectfully
Pinocchio
Ordering a cue should not be brutality.........
 
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Neil said:
I agree that E.W. is not a good business man. Do I believe he is trying to be? Yes. But he has a lot to learn yet. I believe his heart is in the right place by offering another cue to Charlie, but he should have understood better what was required of him to rectify the situation. Maybe one of his friends can sit him down and explain it to him.

I do hope he suceeds in his business. I applaud anyone that tries to make a go of it on their own. From the forums, apparently he does make a good cue, but screwed up on this one. Everyone is entitled to screw ups.

As far as the red rep campaign, you won't see me participating in it. I will not have my name associated with it. However, I do agree that his rep was rather high. But that easily happens when a few high count people rep him. It adds up quick.

The reason I won't participate, besides what I already mentioned, is that it seems like a herd of sheep on here. His rep was high, then one person says he will give green rep if you red rep him, and many have sold out their character to get green rep. I say sold out, because if you really thought he should have been red repped, you should have already done it. Not wait to hurt someone else just because you can gain from it. To me, that is lower than what E.W. has done.

E.W. will get his in his lack of orders from people on here. That's the result of his lack of business sense. And is warranted. Buyer beware. ect. But, to try and hurt someones business because you can get green rep for it, or because it's the game everyone seems to be playing today, and you want to fit in, is just wrong.

If the shoe fits, think about it. If it doesn't, then this doesn't apply to you.

Right now this thread is starting to look like a bunch of school kid bullies that just found someone to pick on. If you don't like his cues or his business practice, don't buy one. There is more than enough info on the forum for anyone to search and see what he is like.

Some of you may be doing this nonsense in the guise of making the forums better. You aren't. You are making them look pretty bad. Standing up for wrongs is one thing, this has gone way past that. And is one of the reasons a lot of great posters don't post anymore.
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Neal it is good that in view of all that has transpired you are able to take the high road.I am not yet a Saint.
To date wheats friends have stated they have no control over what wheat says or does.wheat has left a few of them in the dust over this incident.
If wheat's heart were in the right place there would have been no responses from him , only action that mitigated his swindle of Mr.Edwards.wheat blew every aspect of the transaction.His "good heart" only regrets getting caught and outed.If for some reason, which at this time I cannot fathom, wheat learns from his AZB mistakes then he will owe a debt of gratitude to the" herd of sheep" and "school yard bullys"who stood up to his nonsense and collectively showed him the errors of his ways.I think it was the great philosopher WilleeCue who once said, "A weasel is a weasel and actions speak louder then words"
Regarding the use of the "red rep".One of wheat's petty threats in private messages was a threat to red rep because he was high on the list and quoting wheat,"it will sting a wee bit". That was after beginning the message with an insulting name.
No one in this thread or probably the world can hurt wheat's business more then wheat.There is no gain from red repping wheat.rep points are meaningless accept to warn the unknowing.For crying out loud, Smorg is number one and his avatar wears a lime helmet half the time.(not that there is anything wrong with that).
You say that a lot of "great posters" won't post anymore ?The only thing better then the old is the new.People , many of them damaged to varying degrees and on many levels will find their way to this site because it is the best Billiards/pool site on the web.Those people will post.Some good, some not so good.Those that feel they are above it all and for that reason cannot post should enjoy life in the ivory tower and keep their pearls of wisdom all to themselves where only they can appreciate how insightful they are.
Neil, on what basis do you believe wheat is trying to be a good business man and that his heart is in the right place? Could it be his prolific use of exclamation points? Could it be his lack of memory regarding points(6 not 8), or previous lies which are now mistakes?Could it be that when wheat had the chance to step up to the plate he threw Mr. Edwards an envelope of "wheatbucks"?Could it be that when wheat finally did produce a cue it was more wrong then right to the degree that the aggrieved party passes on a new free cue and wants zero contact from wheat?
Neil there is no shame in taking a stand.You do not have to witness wrong and stand silent.That is the easy way out.It is also the way that allows the hustle to continue.
You Neil hope that wheat succeeds in business.I truly believe that if wheat somehow(not sure if it's possible) became an honorable human being most of us would be supportive.This country and most of the world is big on second chances and the concept of redemption.For your hopes Neal... "Blessed is the man who expects nothing for he shall never be disappointed."
Neal , I believe your heart is in the right place because you view wheat as an underdog.That is admirable not to mention the American way.Take an objective look at this thread and several others regarding wheat's conduct and statements and Mr. Edwards cue.Read the post by WilleeCue on this thread I believe.That's as plain and truthful as your ever going to see. In conclusion Neal,
the nonsense started 8 months ago when money was taking and 4 times delivery was promised but did'nt occur .The nonsense ended when the forum members would not stand by silently and as a group took action.
Brian
 
Brian........

This is another great post by you. Im out of rep for the night I'm gonna have to owe you one. Eddies startin to back-up pretty quick. It won't be long now. I'll be able to hit him anther lick wed. can't wait........
Pinocchio
Wish I had some of them Wheat-Bucks I'd go get some breakfast. Oh! well.
 
I have to admit I was always routing for the underdog. It was entertaining when ever Eddie would get into it with 5 other members at the same time, because he did a good job of fending them off. At times I felt he won many of those debatse and I he grew on me. Well now at least in this instance he does seem to deserve what he is getting. There were many little things he could have done to save face and even came out looking good but he didnt do any of them. I do hope he learns from this, I know I have.
Man you guys have a lot of work to do to get him all red. I'll help out too.
Good luck with your mission.
 
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I have been giving rep to all the posters in this thread that are trying to make AZbilliards a better place by making sure others aren't put through a nightmare as well.

I gave Eddie red and have been slowly giving rep out on my iPhone so I can reload again. I've given out too much rep in this 24 hour period so tomorrow more red is coming his way.

I can't have innocent people thinking that EW has a "reputation beyond repute"
 
Neil,I told Eddie to send another cue when I ACCIDENTALLY greened him. He should build it & send it with an apology telling him to donate it to someone if he didn't want it. Nothing he can do can make up for this but it would be a gesture to possibly get some respect back.
As far as everyone saying they will give him green if he sends $150 - not a chance. I don't believe in giving a guy green for doing what he should have done in the first place, you wouldn't have greened him for being on time would you? Neither would I.
I don't wish bad luck on anybody & I hope EW is ok he's obviously having some sort of difficulty,The reason for the RED REP is to let everyone know how we feel about his business practices. I hope he continues making cues & eventually is welcomed back but for now that may be a little much to ask.
Now that that is over, Eddie I believe that you have a few friends on here & you owe them thanks for supporting you. You are a lucky man to have such friends & supporters.
 
Neil,I told Eddie to send another cue when I ACCIDENTALLY greened him. He should build it & send it with an apology telling him to donate it to someone if he didn't want it. Nothing he can do can make up for this but it would be a gesture to possibly get some respect back.
As far as everyone saying they will give him green if he sends $150 - not a chance. I don't believe in giving a guy green for doing what he should have done in the first place, you wouldn't have greened him for being on time would you? Neither would I.
I don't wish bad luck on anybody & I hope EW is ok he's obviously having some sort of difficulty,The reason for the RED REP is to let everyone know how we feel about his business practices. I hope he continues making cues & eventually is welcomed back but for now that may be a little much to ask.
Now that that is over, Eddie I believe that you have a few friends on here & you owe them thanks for supporting you. You are a lucky man to have such friends & supporters.
 
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