NAPL is rack your own
regarding the apa racking thread
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NAPL is rack your own
Actually they don't. I have asked them directly about the magic rack and was told no you can't use them. However, like many things at the local level of APA, they aren't going to make a fuss over it and won't enforce it unless there is a conflict - as in you want to use one but your opponent doesn't, so you can;t use it.
Once they require them or make them the default racking tool if dispute arises at the higher level tournaments, then they will "officially support" them.
People like SB have a vested interest in bashing anything APA related so his opinion means less than nothing. I can honestly say of the thousands of APA 8 ball games I have played I have maybe had to have someone rerack less then a dozen times. Now if I was some schmuck that examined every rack and wanted it perfect I am sure that number would be in the hundreds or thousands. But I am one that feels it really doesn't matter. Break the damn balls and play with the cards you are dealt. If you can't, then you have other things to worry about more important than the rack concerning your game. Chances of them running out are less than 15%. I'll take those odds so shut up and clear the table clutter a little.
I think I finally understand you. You are simply a frustrated APA player who is jealous and suffers from BCAPL envy. :wink:
I don't recall dissing APA's 9-ball format. I actually like their points based format, and I like the handicapped format of their 8-ball matches. My main beefs are the ridiculous scorekeeping methods leading to easily-sandbaggable ratings, the silly 8-ball rules, and the miniscule ratio of money returned to the players to money vacuumed up by the LO's and the head office.
Oh and most BCAPL 8-ball matches are NOT a race-to-point-total like APA 9-ball is. The old BCAPL-recommended 8-ball handicapping system (which is being replaced by FargoRate) has players counting balls dropped, that's all. Most leagues play whole games, round robin style.
I like the APA, but this fussing over the rack is silly. Most players can't run out, even with a perfect spread. Pros fussing over the rack makes sense, they legitimately might run a package off every break and they have thousands riding on the outcome. For league night though, it's fine if the break is a coin flip.
After playing in a lot of venues, I've found it's really a chore... borderline impossible... to get perfect racks and good spreads in some places. Sometimes the table and triangle just fight you, and the balls are too dirty to travel much.
What we've got is 2 separate problems here that really aren't about the racks or templates.
1. People who just like to feel superior find an excuse to bash apa.
2. APA players who take it too seriously and find an excuse to argue over trivial stuff.
After playing in a lot of venues, I've found it's really a chore... borderline impossible... to get perfect racks and good spreads in some places. Sometimes the table and triangle just fight you, and the balls are too dirty to travel much.
What we've got is 2 separate problems here that really aren't about the racks or templates.
1. People who just like to feel superior find an excuse to bash apa.
2. APA players who take it too seriously and find an excuse to argue over trivial stuff.
Umm, I'm using the wrong sports reference but, bullseye.
I don't have the opportunity to play APA but if I did and they offered a good local/regional tournament schedule I would consider it. For me, league play is a means to and end, playing a tournament. That in all tourn sis rack your own. VNEA.
I suspect the "good" rack is less important than the lack of practice. For a moment the person rejecting a rack can pretend he/she is a pro because they've seen Earl or DO reject a rack. What they haven't seen is the hours that someone puts in to make the rack (that many of us would see as just fine) make a difference.
Magic rack isn't "magic out" but it could be "magic failed again"
Back in August of 2014 I was called to referee a local division playoff on trophy night.
When it was time to break they took out a Magic Rack. I mentioned that was a no no.
I was told they had spoken to the LO and they were told it was OK, so I figured that as
long as they all agreed it was all good and of course the following day I contacted the
APA about this. The following is the text of the email I received in response on 8/8/2014:
Around four years ago, when the Magic Rack was first introduced, the APA
did ban it from league play. Just recently APA backed off that decision
because of its vast popularity in Japan. We are now allowed to use the
Magic Rack for league play.
Hope this clears things up,
I know the Magic Rack isn't available for use at the National level and your LO can still
forbid it's use, but unless something has changed, and I know that as of NTC this past
August this was the APA's position on the template rack, the template rack is OK as long as it's agreeable to both teams
As far as SB, I think his issues are much deeper than simply bashing The APA.
Unless you take extreme measures to shut his pie hole or unless he finds something
else to whine about he will continue to bash what he is most jealous of, what he most
desires. You can't stop him, and he loves the attention. His type will always exist,
all you can do is hope he finds someone/something else to stalk.
No headaches Skippy, it ain't worth it
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My two cents on this subject:
First, the magic racks do not work so well when you use balls that are not uniform in size. I am not sure why this has not been discussed here yet. I don't believe that I have ever played in a BAR that had a matching set of balls on any table. This makes racking "perfect" impossible with a magic rack that alone with a normal rack.
If you don't like how someone racked in 8 ball, simply go for the second ball break. If the rack is loose, and you know how to read it, it is much more likely to make the 8. And in the APA, this is a win as long as you did not scratch. I never check the rack until someone slug racks me. And then only if the person, in my opinion, is capable of understanding what they did wrong. I do not require a rerack from any skill level under a five.
In nine ball, If I get slug racked, I will check the rack and as long as the first three balls touch, I am ok. The rack will generally break apart just fine on a bar box.
I've been playing in the APA out here in King County WA (Seattle area, pretty large league) since 93' and have only had someone give me any grief when asked to rerack maybe five times and most of those were in higher level tournaments.
Most of the players that I notice checking every rack and insisting on having it reracked, are definitely less than break and run players. They are people who were convinced by some more advanced player that they should check the rack and insist on a perfect one. If the "more advanced" player had taught them how to read a rack it would benefit them more than just insisting on a "perfect" rack.
As far as SB goes, "Rack your own is such a no-brainer. I guess you have to have no brains not so see that." this is the only thing I take issue with. Why is it that if someone has a different opinion than yours, you feel the need to insult?
First, the magic racks do not work so well when you use balls that are not uniform in size. I am not sure why this has not been discussed here yet. I don't believe that I have ever played in a BAR that had a matching set of balls on any table. This makes racking "perfect" impossible with a magic rack that alone with a normal rack.
If you don't like how someone racked in 8 ball, simply go for the second ball break. If the rack is loose, and you know how to read it, it is much more likely to make the 8. And in the APA, this is a win as long as you did not scratch. I never check the rack until someone slug racks me. And then only if the person, in my opinion, is capable of understanding what they did wrong. I do not require a rerack from any skill level under a five.
In nine ball, If I get slug racked, I will check the rack and as long as the first three balls touch, I am ok. The rack will generally break apart just fine on a bar box.
I've been playing in the APA out here in King County WA (Seattle area, pretty large league) since 93' and have only had someone give me any grief when asked to rerack maybe five times and most of those were in higher level tournaments.
Most of the players that I notice checking every rack and insisting on having it reracked, are definitely less than break and run players. They are people who were convinced by some more advanced player that they should check the rack and insist on a perfect one. If the "more advanced" player had taught them how to read a rack it would benefit them more than just insisting on a "perfect" rack.
As far as SB goes, "Rack your own is such a no-brainer. I guess you have to have no brains not so see that." this is the only thing I take issue with. Why is it that if someone has a different opinion than yours, you feel the need to insult?
My APA "career" only lasted three matches until they raised my rating too high for my team to use me any more but my impression from the APA and other local leagues is very few people have the ability to run a rack and therefore racking isn't as important. At the pro level it is very important in 9 ball and even 10 ball because whoever is at the table after the break has a big advantage.
Anyone expecting league players to spend an eternity giving a perfect rack is living in a fantasy world. Sometimes it is impossible to get a perfect rack with all of the balls touching on the equipment I play on. Some bars do not spend the time to clean their equipment and the money to purchase good racks, either due to not caring about the players and/or financial reasons. Plus due to balls wearing down over time, they are different sizes and there are bound to be gaps. I often settle for a decent rack and change my break accordingly (i.e. increase or decrease speed, change sides). If I see my opponent hastily throw a rack together, I will check the rack and ask for a re-rack if needed. However if I see that my opponent is taking the time to give me a good rack then I will generally not check the rack.
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I have played in 4 different sanctions in WI, BCAPL, WSPA, WAMO, ACS, each and every one is rack your own. We dont have any rack arguments, I think rack your own is a no brainer.
I'm really talking about APA 9 ball here. APA 8 ball is a different animal, the skill level definitely tends to be lower than other leagues, and I don't think it's as big of a problem given how many innings the games take anyway.
If you have to make 75 balls in APA vs someone making 14, it'd be nice to have a decent rack. Otherwise it just doesn't feel like pool, it's...something else.
I play in a BCAPL on Monday nights and an APA Masters league on Thursday night.
BCAPL is rack your own and APA is loser racks. I don't have a problem either way.....but, if my opponent were to slug rack me a couple times, I will definitely say something.
Like I said in the other thread, playing league is merely a means to an end. The only reason we play league is to get to Nationals in Vegas. I try to have fun during league...sure I try to win every match but bottom line is enjoying the evening with some great teammates.
Both of the leagues I play in are in-house leagues, so we all know each other pretty good with an occasional newbie. I can't remember the last time there was an argument over racking problems....maybe it just depends on the city?
Anyhoo, I don't have a problem either way. The only reason I would inspect the rack is if I had already gotten a bad rack....hasn't happened yet.
Again, you gotta separate 8 ball and 9 ball...but your experience is not typical. I've played APA in a couple different areas of the country and I can say that slug racks are very common. Mostly because people don't know how to rack well or see the gaps. It's mostly not malicious but it still sucks to hit a rack solid and have the balls barely move. In 8 ball I think it's less of a problem because you can still dink and dunk your way out of the rack with strategy. In 9 ball it's a huge problem because of the nature of the game and the fact that you're already giving up weight to the opponent.
APA does NOT allow magic racks in higher level tournaments. Local leagues MAY allow them for regular weekly league play but you can't use them at regionals or in Vegas. I think that's a really stupid move by the APA because it would mostly eliminate racking problems and solve the untrained racker problem. I guess they'll catch on eventually.
Great to see you posting again. And spot on, as usual.
justaplayer
Banned
Just rack your own, spot the nine on the break and bet something already!
It isn't only the APA but every local league I've played in. I always try to give the opponent a tight rack because I want a good spread. Why would I want a good spread when the opponent is breaking? Because he or she isn't going to run out and I will have a good spread when I get to the table.
The pros are a different story. A lot of those guys are as good at rigging the rack as they are at playing pool because the rack is a big part of success or failure. For that I blame the tournament director for not using a template.
Cheers... yes that's pretty much it. When I played 9-ball, about the best thing you could do is dog the 9 lol... you lose 2 points, but then the other guy breaks and can't make any sort of tough shot on the 1, can't run out even if the 1's easy, and can't make a good hit if they're hooked on it. You then clean up. That's not everyone but it's a lot of the players. A few of them are dangerous and win on their breaks.