Have South West's always been customizable production cues?
Is my early 80's a production cue? My '89 Franklin? The '01 I sold?
Where do you place the dividers, if there are any?
Regional Cues
- Thread starter Ken_4fun
- Start date
Is my early 80's a production cue? My '89 Franklin? The '01 I sold?
Where do you place the dividers, if there are any?
Don't know where you guy get the idea that Southwest is Custom production shop?
If southwest, is custom production...you might as well classified every top tier cue builders (Tascarella, Bender, Chudy, Gina, etc.) in the same category with the same argument.
SW is not Mezz, not Predator, Not Schon....not production but any means.
The main difference to me is that they are very selective about the quality of wood used and have far superior craftsmanship for every cue that they build.
Each one of their cue follow their secret formula for making a killer playing cue that uncontested around the world. They pay attention to each particular cue throughout the cue building process.
They're not mass product by any sense from what i can tell.
They are one of the best cue in the world for good reason and have a well earned reputation among the best players in the world.
Unfortunately, they don't do sponsorship so if you want the best, you're going to have to pay like everyone else.
In New York alone, I know of about 10 players that plays with SW cues. You don't see many fancy southwest on the market because the owner have them lock up in the safe...so its ashamed they are not been played with.
Not sure if you can place an order for a fancy southwest now a day.
I've owned quite a few southwest myself over the years and can say that each and everyone of the southwest that I've picked all plays super strong with exception to a few that plays so good it's not fair to the opponents you're playing.
What ever the verdict, custom or production or custom production....these cues are well worth the money and are one of the best cue made in the world.
It probably the most common custom cue because it's one of the best in the world.
SW cues are everywhere, China, Germany, Canada, US (all over), Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, Philippine, where ever there's good players....you'll mostly likely find a SW cue there.
If southwest, is custom production...you might as well classified every top tier cue builders (Tascarella, Bender, Chudy, Gina, etc.) in the same category with the same argument.
SW is not Mezz, not Predator, Not Schon....not production but any means.
The main difference to me is that they are very selective about the quality of wood used and have far superior craftsmanship for every cue that they build.
Each one of their cue follow their secret formula for making a killer playing cue that uncontested around the world. They pay attention to each particular cue throughout the cue building process.
They're not mass product by any sense from what i can tell.
They are one of the best cue in the world for good reason and have a well earned reputation among the best players in the world.
Unfortunately, they don't do sponsorship so if you want the best, you're going to have to pay like everyone else.
In New York alone, I know of about 10 players that plays with SW cues. You don't see many fancy southwest on the market because the owner have them lock up in the safe...so its ashamed they are not been played with.
Not sure if you can place an order for a fancy southwest now a day.
I've owned quite a few southwest myself over the years and can say that each and everyone of the southwest that I've picked all plays super strong with exception to a few that plays so good it's not fair to the opponents you're playing.
What ever the verdict, custom or production or custom production....these cues are well worth the money and are one of the best cue made in the world.
It probably the most common custom cue because it's one of the best in the world.
SW cues are everywhere, China, Germany, Canada, US (all over), Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, Philippine, where ever there's good players....you'll mostly likely find a SW cue there.
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They do not accept custom orders, just modifications to their standard formula in terms of woods, veneer colors, and so forth.
You get a 6 or 9 pointer, with standard taper, and your choice of accessories.
That's not a custom cue.
It is a very high end production or catalog model cue.
You're entitled to that opinion, but the 4 pointer is a classic for a reason.
This concept applies to a lot of the higher end builders as well and to me is very subjective.
Just because they don't accept custom orders now, doesn't mean they can't create high end custom cues. There are a lot of Fancy SW cues made in past and present but unfortunately they are not always on the market (average joe probably can't afford a custom cue from SW).
Hercek, Benders, Gina and every other high tier cue builders also have their based cues that you would called "Not Custom Cue" because it applied to your concept of modification to their standard formula in term of woods, veneers, taper, etc. Does this mean, they are not a custom cue builder as well? or only specific cue can be a custom cue?
If we defined custom cue as a personal item such that the designed is unique to your spec, weight, length, balance, etc, than...there are very few custom cues in the world. Custom would only be cue that are made specifically to you and if you bought it second hand...it no longer a custom cue...only to the original purchaser. In most case, the buyer only choose woods, veneers, taper, etc...and in some cases...the type of inlays...which again are fixed to what the cue builder have available in their inlay design template.
Duc.
Just because they don't accept custom orders now, doesn't mean they can't create high end custom cues. There are a lot of Fancy SW cues made in past and present but unfortunately they are not always on the market (average joe probably can't afford a custom cue from SW).
Hercek, Benders, Gina and every other high tier cue builders also have their based cues that you would called "Not Custom Cue" because it applied to your concept of modification to their standard formula in term of woods, veneers, taper, etc. Does this mean, they are not a custom cue builder as well? or only specific cue can be a custom cue?
If we defined custom cue as a personal item such that the designed is unique to your spec, weight, length, balance, etc, than...there are very few custom cues in the world. Custom would only be cue that are made specifically to you and if you bought it second hand...it no longer a custom cue...only to the original purchaser. In most case, the buyer only choose woods, veneers, taper, etc...and in some cases...the type of inlays...which again are fixed to what the cue builder have available in their inlay design template.
Duc.
It appears you have a passion for Southwest cues, as do most other Southwest fan boys, but it doesn't change the fact that a Southwest is not a custom cue. IMO, a Southwest Cue is not a custom. That's like saying the my Chevrolet Silverado is custom, because I ordered it silver with 20" wheels and satellite radio... Custom would be calling up Southwest, telling them you want a full splice purple heart into rosewood three point cue.
Southwest cues are no more custom than a "custom" Viking cue. Just because you changed some wood and veneer colors, does really qualify it as a custom cue. It's more of a low quantity production cue that is tailored to your color preferences.
I'd love to know what Southwest would say, if I called and asked for a 62" Hoppe tribute.
I think Southwest is in a class by themselves. They have remained consistent in their style, whether some appreciate that or not, for decades. You know one as soon as you see it.
But I don't see it in the same line as a production cue cause, obviously you could pick the same woods, veneers, ring positions as someone else -- it is not like Southwest has a Model SW - 01A for you to simply order. And cues aren't built without an owner as other production cue companies do.
When I went to the factory (as most of you know it is a house), I had dreams that she would have some unclaimed cues or partially finisihed cues that I could scoop up and make my own. Laurie politely laughed when I inquired.
But I don't see it in the same line as a production cue cause, obviously you could pick the same woods, veneers, ring positions as someone else -- it is not like Southwest has a Model SW - 01A for you to simply order. And cues aren't built without an owner as other production cue companies do.
When I went to the factory (as most of you know it is a house), I had dreams that she would have some unclaimed cues or partially finisihed cues that I could scoop up and make my own. Laurie politely laughed when I inquired.
I disagree that Southwest is production. To me a production cue is a builder/company who makes the majority of their cues for sale to retailers/distributors or even to the end consumer but they are pre-made in specific configurations.
Southwest builds cues to order with woods, weights, etc specified by the buyer. Sounds custom enough to me. They aren't building 20 of the same setup to then offer for sale only after they're finished. Sure, they focus on a particular style of cue, but most makers do.
I don't think many people are calling up Pete Tascarella asking for some CNC'd floating point inlays or Sugartree style micro-rings...and if they did he'd probably say he doesn't really do that. If you want amazing woods and micro-rings you go with Eric at Sugartree...that's what he does. If want crazy CNC'd floating points then you'd probably look to Keith Josey as he is known for that style. Southwest may take it to an extreme in that they really don't deviate at all from their basic style...but that is because that is what people want from Southwest.
In the end, I don't really care. I don't own a Southwest, have never even seen one in person. Just seems silly to me to claim they aren't a custom cue builder when every cue they make is made-to-order for a customer. Custom doesn't mean you get to request whatever you want and they have to build it for you. If you walked into a Savile Row tailor and requested a zoot suit I'm guessing they'd tell you they don't do that....doesn't mean their suits aren't bespoke.
Southwest builds cues to order with woods, weights, etc specified by the buyer. Sounds custom enough to me. They aren't building 20 of the same setup to then offer for sale only after they're finished. Sure, they focus on a particular style of cue, but most makers do.
I don't think many people are calling up Pete Tascarella asking for some CNC'd floating point inlays or Sugartree style micro-rings...and if they did he'd probably say he doesn't really do that. If you want amazing woods and micro-rings you go with Eric at Sugartree...that's what he does. If want crazy CNC'd floating points then you'd probably look to Keith Josey as he is known for that style. Southwest may take it to an extreme in that they really don't deviate at all from their basic style...but that is because that is what people want from Southwest.
In the end, I don't really care. I don't own a Southwest, have never even seen one in person. Just seems silly to me to claim they aren't a custom cue builder when every cue they make is made-to-order for a customer. Custom doesn't mean you get to request whatever you want and they have to build it for you. If you walked into a Savile Row tailor and requested a zoot suit I'm guessing they'd tell you they don't do that....doesn't mean their suits aren't bespoke.
Well let's see:
1. Tim Scruggs
2. Bob Frey
3. Mike Lambros
4. Leon Sly
5. Tony Scianelli "Black Boar"
6. Mike Cochran RIP
7. Richard Phillipi
8. Mike Capone
9. Danny Janes-Joss
I don't think Joss is the most popular cue there, not by a long-shot. Unless you're talking about pre-production Joss cues made by Bill Stroud & Danny Janes before Bill left to do Joss West. Even those Joss cues have a cult following. When I grew up & lived there until I left you really didn't see a large amount of custom cues from outside of Maryland, sure they're around but not in the numbers that local cue makers have on the street. Then again with the list of makers above why would you need to look elsewhere. Serious wood comes out of Maryland.
Oh and as far as Southwest goes, I get that there are many who think they are the be all end all, I just don't get it & I've hit with quite a few. To each his own.
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Willie Hoppe
I got my 1965 Willie Hoppe at the Brunswick retailer in St. Louis that sold mostly bowling balls but also a few cues. I think it cost $35.00. I took it to A.E. Schmidt and got a plate put in with my initials, a Hoppe style butt plate (maybe ivory?) and a new nylon wrap, all for under $15.00 as I recall. Still have the cue with a Danny Tibbitts refinish and Cortland white/green wrap.
Most people in St. Louis back then that I knew had either a Brunswick or an A. E. Schmidt cue, and some people had one-piece house cues converted to two-piece with an all-black plastic joint.
Grand-Olive Billiards had cabinets with drawers where you could store your cue horizontally so you could leave it there. Some of my friends had cues but no cases and they carried their cues and shafts in one hand sometimes wrapped with a rubber band.
Simpler times!
I got my 1965 Willie Hoppe at the Brunswick retailer in St. Louis that sold mostly bowling balls but also a few cues. I think it cost $35.00. I took it to A.E. Schmidt and got a plate put in with my initials, a Hoppe style butt plate (maybe ivory?) and a new nylon wrap, all for under $15.00 as I recall. Still have the cue with a Danny Tibbitts refinish and Cortland white/green wrap.
Most people in St. Louis back then that I knew had either a Brunswick or an A. E. Schmidt cue, and some people had one-piece house cues converted to two-piece with an all-black plastic joint.
Grand-Olive Billiards had cabinets with drawers where you could store your cue horizontally so you could leave it there. Some of my friends had cues but no cases and they carried their cues and shafts in one hand sometimes wrapped with a rubber band.
Simpler times!
"Southwest Cues are like Nuclear War. You've seen one, you've seen'em all".
They are common at Sacramento area Halls, as are Scruggs, Black, Lambros,
Josswest, & Ginas. I have also seen more Robinsons here than anywhere else.
Granted, SW builds a quality, solid playing stick ... But, $3,000+ ? ... Gimme a F'n Break !
While stationed at NAS Moffet Field, I played in a Straight Pool Tournament at a
local Bowling Alley most every Saturday afternoon. The Winner had a choice
of the money ($40-$50) or a New Willie Hoppe Professional in the Tan Leather Case.
After accumulating (10) Hoppe's, I started taking the money. Yes, you guessed
it, all of the Hoppe's were sold over the years ... damnit !
BTW - One of the better players in Sac carried his Sneaky Pete around for years
secured by Thick Rubberbands. He bought a Beautiful Lambros last year and
immediately purchased a new 2x4 Instroke, discarding the rubberbands. Ha !
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Funny, I guess I live in a small town - I've never seen another Lambros around NorCal besides the few I've owned. Never made it up to Sac to play pool though.
So would I! I love the classic Brunswick design.
I'm from St Louis but didn't start to be around pool until after Grand-Olive closed down. Would love to hear more of your stories.
I just ordered a $4K SW. I hope you continue to be wrong.
Hope you enjoy that cue when you get it in 8 years......lol....j/k
8...???
It's like 12 now
The only SW's I'm interested in have already been built long ago though
