Removing Phenolic ferrulle/tip combos

[Kid Dynomite]

Hi,

I have a phenolic ferrulle/tip sledgehammer break jump cue that I love. The problem is when I jump with jump cues that have a regular tip I can draw the cue ball and control it much better.

Is there a way to either ruff the tip area up more to generate the kind of grip on the cue ball I get from a leather tip and if so whats the process?

or

two should I have the rounded part cut off and have a leather tip slapped on?

or

three will the whole ferrulle/tip need to be removed and a new ferrulle and tip placed on?

Thanks for any and all info!

Sincerely,
Kid
Dynomite

 

[Craig Fales]

You could do all three if you wanted...but I would just scuff the tip up with 60 sandpaper...you be suprised how well they grip the CB...

 

[masonh]

make rings in it by digging a razor blade into the phenolic while it is spinning in a lathe

 

[Kid Dynomite]

thanks for the replys

I tried what was suggested and must say that i had tried scuffing it prior to posting and never really got aggressive with it. I am surprised it was shipped out unscuffed properly!!!

The 60 sandpaper did improve it alot I used a metal file and got good results. But, how often do you have to scuff it up like this and how long will this thing last????

I noticed more mis-cues with the phenolic tip and compared it side by side with a regular tipped jump/break cue. But, the regular tipped cue was a 13mm and the phenolic was 13.5 mm. I am thinking of taking it down to 13 to compare properly. I also hit some regular shots and it did draw the ball but when applying extreme draw the phenolic was unreliable and scratched alot while the regular tip worked fine. Still thinking of changing!

I had one with a spiral carved in the phenolic and it was not all that successful for me. It ended up being removed. But, thanks mason!!!

Sincerely,
Kid
Dynomite

 

[fordtechandy]

I just did what your talking about to my sledge hammer. All I did was face of the rounded part then installed a extra hard leather tip. It works great.
i have 2 cue balls that prove phonolic does damage the finish.

 

[gregoryg]

Put on a Super Pro...

Have a cue repairman square off the end of the ferrule and put a Super Pro tip on it. The layered water buffalo tip hits just as hard, but gives you a lot more control of 'ol whitey.

 

[WheatCues]

question regarding the 1-piece phenolic ferrule/tip

Has any other players or cuemsmiths experienced the 1-piece phenolic ferrule/tip compacting the wood at the seam and causing the wood to splinter and/or chip ???

I personally don't agree with the performance longevity of the phenolic ferrules and have seen quite a few of those configurations completely destroy the top of the shaft...

Please respond with good or bad results... I hope I'm not alone here with what I have seen regarding this issue....



Thanks, Eddie Wheat

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

Has any other players or cuemsmiths experienced the 1-piece phenolic ferrule/tip compacting the wood at the seam and causing the wood to splinter and/or chip ???

I personally don't agree with the performance longevity of the phenolic ferrules and have seen quite a few of those configurations completely destroy the top of the shaft...

Please respond with good or bad results... I hope I'm not alone here with what I have seen regarding this issue....



Thanks, Eddie Wheat

Hi Eddie; I've been putting these one piece ferrule/tips on for about 5 years & never had ANY problems. I do about 20 a year...JER

 

[Dave38]

Hi Eddie; I've been putting these one piece ferrule/tips on for about 5 years & never had ANY problems. I do about 20 a year...JER

Jerry, do you thread yours or just sleeve them? The few that I've made I threaded, with the thought that the threads hold it from impacting the shoulder as much. I made one for my girlfriends brother, he breaks really hard, and so far, no damage. I should mention, I've only put them on purpleheart shafts, not maple.
Dave

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

Jerry, do you thread yours or just sleeve them? The few that I've made I threaded, with the thought that the threads hold it from impacting the shoulder as much. I made one for my girlfriends brother, he breaks really hard, and so far, no damage. I should mention, I've only put them on purpleheart shafts, not maple.
Dave

I'm too old to change, so I sleeve everything. I do use a small boring bar & make sure I have a good flat bottom, to the hole. That way the tenon has good support at the shoulder & at the top of the tenon...JER

 

[conetip]

wood splinter

Has any other players or cuemsmiths experienced the 1-piece phenolic ferrule/tip compacting the wood at the seam and causing the wood to splinter and/or chip ???

I personally don't agree with the performance longevity of the phenolic ferrules and have seen quite a few of those configurations completely destroy the top of the shaft...

Please respond with good or bad results... I hope I'm not alone here with what I have seen regarding this issue....



Thanks, Eddie Wheat

Hi Eddie, I have an ali ferrule that is quite short.It spigots into the end of of wooden shafts. I have interchangeable tips and use a phenolic for breaks. I loan it out to people in the local bar to get more cross section of use. So far , have not had it splinter or any other problems yet, but it is only 5mths old.A photo of it is in the cue gallery under Carbon cue.I got pat pending on the tip design.
How is the 1 piece connected to the cue, and what method are you using to retain it?
Neil Lickfold
Just booked flights to France for the World Champs for Model Planes. My son is Representing team USA in JUly -August .Off track but am excited to go and support him.

 

[WheatCues]

thanks for the responses regarding my inquiry

Wow, I'm astonished none of you have experienced compaction of the ferrule against the wood.... "I'm just lucky I guess" lol....

I don't utilize the 1-piece ferrue/tip combo myself, because of my exclusive phenolic impreganted leather tips it's not required.... as a matter of fact I have found any other ferrule harder than a fibre ferrule is overkill and counter-productive to my configuration and anyone who has my break/jump cues are fascinated by the liveliness of the tip and overall performance!!!

So I have never installed one "yet" but I'm sure I will get a repair in the future that requires one so how thick of a tenon would you recommend and I noticed theres an option with sleeved or threaded if you wouldn't mind sharing that bit of information to avoid disasterous results ????


Thanks a bunch !


- Eddie Wheat

 

[WesleyW]

This is not the best picture, but I've cut the round part and installed a white diamond. I can put extreme english without problems.

 

[manwon]

Has any other players or cuemsmiths experienced the 1-piece phenolic ferrule/tip compacting the wood at the seam and causing the wood to splinter and/or chip ???

I personally don't agree with the performance longevity of the phenolic ferrules and have seen quite a few of those configurations completely destroy the top of the shaft...

Please respond with good or bad results... I hope I'm not alone here with what I have seen regarding this issue....



Thanks, Eddie Wheat

Has any other players or cuemsmiths experienced the 1-piece phenolic ferrule/tip compacting the wood at the seam and causing the wood to splinter and/or chip ???

Eddie, that is because many are are not installed correctly. The best way to install these is to use a 2 1/4 inch piece of phenolic rod and turn a 1 1/4inch tenon 5/16 in diameter on to the the phenolic rod. Then Tap out the shaft 1 1/4 deep and thread the tenon on the rod and the bored hole.
Screw and epoxy, turn the 1 inch of rod remaining and cut circular groves in the end with your lathe cutting tool.

Now if the person decides they do not like the phenolic break ferrule latter all that needs to be done is face off the end and install a leather tip.

This procedure works very well, I have been doing it for more than two years with no problems. I estimate that I have done close to 200 of these type of conversions, without the problems outlined above. I suspect that the fact that the ferrule has a tenon attached to it give it extra support and strength. Another interesting fact, is that the tink sound that is common with these ferrules when screwed on a wood tenon is almost completely eliminated, and the transmission of hit during breaking and jumping is increased.

Hope this helps

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

Wow, I'm astonished none of you have experienced compaction of the ferrule against the wood.... "I'm just lucky I guess" lol....

I don't utilize the 1-piece ferrue/tip combo myself, because of my exclusive phenolic impreganted leather tips it's not required.... as a matter of fact I have found any other ferrule harder than a fibre ferrule is overkill and counter-productive to my configuration and anyone who has my break/jump cues are fascinated by the liveliness of the tip and overall performance!!!

So I have never installed one "yet" but I'm sure I will get a repair in the future that requires one so how thick of a tenon would you recommend and I noticed theres an option with sleeved or threaded if you wouldn't mind sharing that bit of information to avoid disasterous results ????


Thanks a bunch !


- Eddie Wheat

I use a 5/16" tenon. By the way how do you "impregnate" something like leather with something made of epoxies & string? ...JER

 

[rhncue]

There is no reason that a ferrule tip combination should or could cause any more damage than a normal ferrule and hard tip, under the same hard usage a break cue gets, imo. If the ferrule is installed correctly with strong enough glue there certainly should be no problems. This damage would have to be caused by the ferrule shifting slightly rearward under impact. When installing a ferrule I ensure that the tenon is slightly longer than the hole in the ferrule and then I face the end of the ferrule a few thousandths at a time so that the end of the tenon would almost be touching the cap of the ferrule when it contacts the face of the shaft. I only use capped ferrules by the way and what little space is left between the tenon and cap is solid glue.

Dick

 

[WheatCues]

I use a 5/16" tenon. By the way how do you "impregnate" something like leather with something made of epoxies & string? ...JER

ahh !!!

I don't.... It already comes that way and is used in power plants inside high-voltage junction boxes to contain explosions and fires for the grids...

My good friend kenneth "barney" Barnes pulled a bunch of boards for me and asked me if I had a use for it and so I cut into cubes and started experimenting with it and found it has tremendous results over the standard phenolic.... becasue the layers of leather act as a buffer zone for the energy to build up on instead of passing straight through... this creates a better spread of the rack and takes alot less effort to get maximum results... I have been using it for years !

Pete Ohman "Omen Cues" bought several from me after breaking with mine and had nothing but good things to say about the performance, I do not know if he has utilized any of them.... also I use a 14mm shaft with forward balance so that is also contributing factors in the overall perfromance of the break/jump cue... and even when I just install the tip only on other existing break cues the results is noticably different than straight phenolic....

By the way... thanks for the insight in instructions on the correct installation of the 1-piece ferrule/tip

I have not yet had to install one but it's always great to have a little insight when something new presents itself, especially in front of a customer !


Thanks a Bunch !


- Eddie Wheat

 

[Hidy Ho]

This is not the best picture, but I've cut the round part and installed a white diamond. I can put extreme english without problems.

Same setup for me on my Fury j/b cue.

 

[Cheez Dawg]

Pretty much the same as I've done with my Gulyassy j/b. Works great IMO.

 

[Cue Crazy]

Wow, I'm astonished none of you have experienced compaction of the ferrule against the wood.... "I'm just lucky I guess" lol....

I don't utilize the 1-piece ferrue/tip combo myself, because of my exclusive phenolic impreganted leather tips it's not required.... as a matter of fact I have found any other ferrule harder than a fibre ferrule is overkill and counter-productive to my configuration and anyone who has my break/jump cues are fascinated by the liveliness of the tip and overall performance!!!

So I have never installed one "yet" but I'm sure I will get a repair in the future that requires one so how thick of a tenon would you recommend and I noticed theres an option with sleeved or threaded if you wouldn't mind sharing that bit of information to avoid disasterous results ????


Thanks a bunch !


- Eddie Wheat

I do the same thing that Dick mentioned. I make the tenon just a hair longer then what It takes to meet the inside of ferrule cap, and slightly face the end of the tenon until the gap at the shoulder closes up, so I have a perfect fit. I could spend the time to measure and cut as close as I can the first time, but this method is not only a time saver, It is also more of a sure thing in My opinion, since you can face off as little as needed with ease, and bump it right in.

I also thread them with the standard 5/16-18 thread pattern.

I have seen the issue You mention in other cues, but haven't had that problem Myself. I might would say that It's because the capped ferrules stop it from pushing back as much, and therefore would think opened faced slip tenons would be more vulnerable. That would seem logical, but I have done many slip tenons as well, and had no issues either, so that kind of throws that theory out the door.


The break/jump ferrule tip setups, I do quite a few different types depending on what someone wants. I do a solid threaded 1pc phenolic tip/ferrule combo. I do a threaded & capped phenolic ferrule with hard tip like a super pro, and I have made linen & canvas tips with a more standard type ferrule material like some jump cues come with.

Since I turn My own phenolic tips from stock, that allows me to turn a tiny tenon on the back side of the tip, then I can drill a small hole in the face of the ferrule tenon, to allow the small tenon on the back of the tip to press fit into the hole on the face of the tenon. Someone on here shared that method a while back, I want to say It was Varney, But I don't remember off hand for sure, and it could have been someone else. Whoever it was I would like to thank them. It's a pretty slick method and work really well. Gives alittle bit of a mechanical bond when otherwise you would be depending on the glue only. That's a good thing IMO when It comes to something dedicated to taking the impact that break or jump cues do.

Greg