Repeat Lesson Concern
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
- Start date
DrCue'sProtege said:
I have taken lessons from several instructors. Both formally and informally. I've taken clinics, sit ins, etc. There wasn't a repeat amoung them. Even though several of them teach/have taught together.
And the prominent teachers didn't get that reputation for nothing. They don't all teach from the same handbook, and believe it or not, they learn from each other as well.
Fred
Blunt - go see Scott Lee
I have also taken lessons locally from a few of the top guys around my area. I am lucky enough to have a good friend that can assist me in a few areas when he sees them occur.
With that said, I will recommend going to Scott Lee. I had a lesson from him and was willing to completely change everything if he had told me to. (bridge length, stance, grip, chin to the cue, eye position, etc). Instead of doing those things, Scott worked with me on my current fundamentals, made small changes and explained why I should do ABC.
Personally I learned more about the stroke in a day, then I have since I started two years ago. I understand what a good stroke is, what SPF is, I know exactly my SOP (standard operating procedure), and what I should be looking for in my personal stroke.
I think if you can afford Scott, and can find a convenient spot to take lessons, I would highly highly highly highly highly recommend it.
Once you have all of these fundamentals, it is all about Training, Practice and Playing.
I have also taken lessons locally from a few of the top guys around my area. I am lucky enough to have a good friend that can assist me in a few areas when he sees them occur.
With that said, I will recommend going to Scott Lee. I had a lesson from him and was willing to completely change everything if he had told me to. (bridge length, stance, grip, chin to the cue, eye position, etc). Instead of doing those things, Scott worked with me on my current fundamentals, made small changes and explained why I should do ABC.
Personally I learned more about the stroke in a day, then I have since I started two years ago. I understand what a good stroke is, what SPF is, I know exactly my SOP (standard operating procedure), and what I should be looking for in my personal stroke.
I think if you can afford Scott, and can find a convenient spot to take lessons, I would highly highly highly highly highly recommend it.
Once you have all of these fundamentals, it is all about Training, Practice and Playing.
DCP
I operate under the philosophy that the student has as much responsibility as the teacher. This means that during my instruction, I encourage two-way communication. I have watched instructors that do nothing but bark out instructions. I have also seen instructors that give vague instructions to the student, then step back and waste time talking to me or someone else while the student is practicing the task by utilizing the vague instructions. I won't tell you that there are no bad instructors out there. There is an abundance of poor instructors and they know who they are.
About a year ago I told you that I was unable to do very much for you over the phone. This shifted the responsibility over to you in finding an instructor that was well equipped to assist you.
Not all teachers fit well with all students. There are wide varieties of teaching and learning styles which leaves the door open for disaster. Look at our school systems.
The BCA Instructors are the best instructors you will find. They are not the only instructors that you will find, but they are definitely the best. I am not, nor have I ever been BCA certified. What I teach is very effective because I have the natural ability to teach, not because I have been "trained" to teach. There is a difference. I teach basically the same material, only I teach it much differently.
Not all instructors make good coaches. A coach must motivate you to train your best and to guide you before, during and after competition. I do both - and I structure my classes around this - working with me is a long term commitment, not a one shot deal (most of the time). This is what separates me from a lot of other instructors.
I cannot teach anybody EVERYTHING in just one session. Neither can RandyG, Mark Wilson, Jerry Breiseth, or Scott Lee.
None of us are responsible for what you do with what you have learned when you leave the class environment. I can promise you that all of us will give 100% in our efforts and we will ensure that you understand and comprehend what is being taught to you.
As a player you need to challenge yourself. You need to challenge yourself mentally, physically, and emotionally. Improvement comes when you overcome your deficiencies and break through those walls. You literally have to be willing to walk through the fire. When you make it through the flames, you need to be ready for the next challenge. Then the next. And then the next. It never ends. That's not the pool gods picking on you... everybody has difficult challenges... they may be different than yours, but everybody struggles.
Early on, I ask all of my students this simple question...
"Name the three areas of your game that frustrate you the most."
Usually they come back and give me a wide assortment of problems that they have. I simply tell them to go to the mirror and take a long hard look at the root of it all.
Looking at ourselves is not easy. If we do it honestly, it will require twice as much work on our part to deal with it. It's self-surgery. You have to be willing to go under the knife without anesthesia - it's going to hurt. Its not for the weak at heart. As a student, you have the choice to fiercly break through the barriers, or sit back beating yourself up while playing the role of the weak little sister. It comes down to choices. It's finding yourself at the crossroads and choosing whether to move forward, go backwards, or remain where you're at.
Whatever you do, don't ever lose faith in yourself or the learning process.
I operate under the philosophy that the student has as much responsibility as the teacher. This means that during my instruction, I encourage two-way communication. I have watched instructors that do nothing but bark out instructions. I have also seen instructors that give vague instructions to the student, then step back and waste time talking to me or someone else while the student is practicing the task by utilizing the vague instructions. I won't tell you that there are no bad instructors out there. There is an abundance of poor instructors and they know who they are.
About a year ago I told you that I was unable to do very much for you over the phone. This shifted the responsibility over to you in finding an instructor that was well equipped to assist you.
Not all teachers fit well with all students. There are wide varieties of teaching and learning styles which leaves the door open for disaster. Look at our school systems.
The BCA Instructors are the best instructors you will find. They are not the only instructors that you will find, but they are definitely the best. I am not, nor have I ever been BCA certified. What I teach is very effective because I have the natural ability to teach, not because I have been "trained" to teach. There is a difference. I teach basically the same material, only I teach it much differently.
Not all instructors make good coaches. A coach must motivate you to train your best and to guide you before, during and after competition. I do both - and I structure my classes around this - working with me is a long term commitment, not a one shot deal (most of the time). This is what separates me from a lot of other instructors.
I cannot teach anybody EVERYTHING in just one session. Neither can RandyG, Mark Wilson, Jerry Breiseth, or Scott Lee.
None of us are responsible for what you do with what you have learned when you leave the class environment. I can promise you that all of us will give 100% in our efforts and we will ensure that you understand and comprehend what is being taught to you.
As a player you need to challenge yourself. You need to challenge yourself mentally, physically, and emotionally. Improvement comes when you overcome your deficiencies and break through those walls. You literally have to be willing to walk through the fire. When you make it through the flames, you need to be ready for the next challenge. Then the next. And then the next. It never ends. That's not the pool gods picking on you... everybody has difficult challenges... they may be different than yours, but everybody struggles.
Early on, I ask all of my students this simple question...
"Name the three areas of your game that frustrate you the most."
Usually they come back and give me a wide assortment of problems that they have. I simply tell them to go to the mirror and take a long hard look at the root of it all.
Looking at ourselves is not easy. If we do it honestly, it will require twice as much work on our part to deal with it. It's self-surgery. You have to be willing to go under the knife without anesthesia - it's going to hurt. Its not for the weak at heart. As a student, you have the choice to fiercly break through the barriers, or sit back beating yourself up while playing the role of the weak little sister. It comes down to choices. It's finding yourself at the crossroads and choosing whether to move forward, go backwards, or remain where you're at.
Whatever you do, don't ever lose faith in yourself or the learning process.
DrCue'sProtege said:
DCP,
I hope that some minor tweaking will help you. I hope you realize that for some players a minor tweak is not going to achieve a professional result (though it would sure be nice to think so). I also hope you realize that you still have not shared any of your long term goals with us - making this thread rather pointless so far. You've told us what you want from a lesson, but have said nothing about the level of your game now, the level you would like to achieve, what you are prepared to do to get there, how many hours/day you want to spend, how many years you are prepared to commit. Advice from the forum is useless without knowing these things.
Have you considered posting a video of your stroke and game? There are many on this forum that could tell you whether a minor tweak is going to get professional results; or whether you do need a complete overhaul. If your goal is just to be an average player; maybe you are already there and don't need any lessons.
You've never participated in the Hopkins Q-Skill Challenge event here on AZB. Is there a reason? It could give everyone an idea of your prowess if results are reported honestly.
P.S. - I have witnessed the instructor in question giving lessons to a top professional - ONLY MINOR TWEAKS were done on a very unorthodox stroke. One of the top players in the world told me that this instructor refused to change his very unorthodox swing, even when asked to overhaul it (the principle being "don't mess with success"). Perhaps a video of your stroke would be interesting. In my view, "minor tweaks" result in "minor improvement" - is that really what you want, and are you really that close to your goal (whatever that is)?
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pooltchr said:
RG,
You said it; that was an awesome post by Blackjack; one of the best of the year. Nothing left to say on the subject after that, I'm outta here.
Williebetmore said:
long term goals? ok, quite simply, i'd like to get to the point where i could give players like Archer, Kennedy, Varner, etc, a decent match. i'd like to get to the point where i wouldnt embarrass myself if i played in a U.S. Open and got paired against Ralf Souqet. however, remember, thats a goal - they often times dont get realized.
what am i prepared to do to get there? pretty much anything, thats why i have done all of the things i have mentioned previously. and i am still honked at myself for slamming the ball down last night, breaking the light, splattering it all over my table and cloth. i dont intend on doing that stuff again.
the level of my game? not sure how to answer, but am very inconsistent now. as i said before, in my matches against "Dave", a very fine player, i got to the point where i was giving him some quality competition, and even tied him in sets the last time before he fell ill. the question is, "What Kind Of Player Was Dave?" well, i think he finished 17-24 in the St. Charles tournament a few years ago, IIRC.
hours a day? usually get at least two hours, if not 4-5 hours. as i said before, i am thinking i might go on a practice regimen, perhaps in early august, and just adhere to it the rest of this year without breaking racks.
i have been at this almost 9 years now. have come a long way. if i wasnt running any racks, wasnt playing some good safeties, couldnt pocket balls, etc, etc, i'd agree that i need a COMPLETE OVERHAUL. but, since i am able to accomplish all of the above i feel i need some TWEAKING to fine tune myself. and, as i've stated before, some days i think i could indeed play in the U.S. Open without embarrassing myself, but those days dont happen on an everyday basis.
and there is NO WAY i am posting a video on the internet, just no way, sorry. unless i put a ski mask on, then i might consider it.
DCP
DrCue'sProtege said:
DCP,
Now THAT'S more like it; I'm back on board. Those are quite admirable goals, and you have plenty of practice time to make it happen (way more than I've allotted, and I have the same goal). Your initial post makes a LOT more sense now that we know your goals.
I do feel that with a classical stroke and lot's of instruction and feedback it would have happened for you already; but hey, not everyone does things quickly. The key is that there is NO quick fix; unless an instructor is working regularly with you, most of your advancement will be on your own.
You probably would be wasting your time with stroke instruction. But you DO need some drill/pool junkie (like sjm or myself) to assess your weaknesses (damned hard to do on your own), and select specific drills to fix them, and give you ways to measure your improvement. Your ideas on seeking break instruction are sound; a tweak there might just help a bunch.
You have chosen the sacred "figure it out on your own" path - it's worked well for a bunch of great players; but it will take you a lot longer. Also realize that competition is completely different than practice. Unless you are competing regularly; your practice "speed" will always be far above your competitive speed.
Though I'm still a relative novice; I am very fortunate to be able to compete regularly with a fair number of world-beaters. You should head up to Betmore's Basement and let's get some "competitive practice" under our belts. This Sunday, 9 AM is good for me.
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Williebetmore said:
hmmmmm?
well, after years of working on the Stroke Drills from Tom Rossman, yes, i agree that i might be wasting my time with someone trying to OVERHAUL the stroke. thats why i am considering Scott Lee, and having him TWEAK any flaws he sees. i am sure i have some. obviously have a stroke flaw with the long, straight in draw shot. or at least some kind of mechanical problem.
no, not trying to figure it out on my own. thats why i have asked for help from Rossman, Wilson, and Diana Minor. i'll be glad to listen to anybody that is sincere and knows what they are talking about. people used to ask me to look at their golf swing on the driving range, and i was always happy to at least try to help. Service is one of those gifts that the Lord has granted to man.
i would like to get up to Betmore's Basement and have the Infamous Willie put me through the ringer. but 9:00 sunday morning??? i usually dont crawl out of bed until close to noon, let alone have gotten up and already driven three hours by 9 a.m..........
any drills anyone can pass along that would help benefit would certainly be appreciated. for anyone out there thats interested in helping and is sincere in their desire to help, feel free to PM me and i can pass along my email and we can start a dialogue.
hey Willie?
can you PM me your regular email address? i respect your desire and approach, and perhaps i can shoot you an email with everything i have learned/done/worked on over the years, and you can relay any info/ideas/drills/routines you have or are currently utilizing.
DCP
DrCue'sProtege said:i would like to get up to Betmore's Basement and have the Infamous Willie put me through the ringer. but 9:00 sunday morning??? i usually dont crawl out of bed until close to noon, let alone have gotten up and already driven three hours by 9 a.m..........
DCP, this a golden opportunity for you to get your game back on track. Get your butt out of bed
early Sunday morning and drive the 3 hours if necessary. 
Go to the basement!!!! Go to the basement!!!
sorry, i aint a morning person. the last thing in the world i want to do is get out of bed early. Willie will have to come up with another time to put me through his Baptism By Fire Drill Routine.
but i am game, because i know of this man known as Williebetmore, and i know he could help me...........
DCP
but i am game, because i know of this man known as Williebetmore, and i know he could help me...........
DCP
DrCue'sProtege said:sorry, i aint a morning person. the last thing in the world i want to do is get out of bed early. Willie will have to come up with another time to put me through his Baptism By Fire Drill Routine.
but i am game, because i know of this man known as Williebetmore, and i know he could help me...........
DCP
Crediblity ZERO.
Flex said:
Hi Flex: The answer is very simple. Years and years of training and teaching. 1000's of students and taking the good with the bad. Being an Instructor first not a player. Having a program that people understand and benefit by. Dedicating your career to other players.
The cost is priceless!
Mark Wilson is regarded as one of the top three Instructors of today. He used to be a BCA Instructor and chose to leave our program. Blackjack said it best; "there are very good instructors out there whom are not "Certified".
When the student is ready the teacher will appear.
OPEN MINDS
OPEN DOORS!
You can't buy success you must earn it. That's what those Three did and continue to do.....SPF=randyg
randyg said:
well, glad you remember me Randy. i think Allison remembers me too. that makes me memorable to two people. the list just keeps growing and growing........
and thats a nice compliment for Mr. Rossman. Steve Orner from Orner Billiards in Indianapolis said that guys like Rossman were "What The Sport Is All About!"
DCP
How can you say you don't like getting out of bed early when you just posted the above at 7:20 in the morning?DrCue'sProtege said:well, glad you remember me Randy. i think Allison remembers me too. that makes me memorable to two people. the list just keeps growing and growing........
and thats a nice compliment for Mr. Rossman. Steve Orner from Orner Billiards in Indianapolis said that guys like Rossman were "What The Sport Is All About!"
DCP
Willie is being very generous with his time and interest in helping you. It's up to YOU to take the initiative and decide upon a day and time that will work for the both of you.
PoolSharkAllen said:How can you say you don't like getting out of bed early when you just posted the above at 7:20 in the morning?
Willie is being very generous with his time and interest in helping you. It's up to YOU to take the initiative and decide upon a day and time that will work for the both of you.
because i couldnt sleep, thats why. i have too many things on my mind, such as:
1) work situation
2) mother's ill health
3) nursing home and medicaid payments
4) lack of ability at the pool table
5) everybody everywhere (work, town, AZ forums, etc) always being on my case
6) just struck out with the sexy babe from the office
any minute i am going to get real tired, and head back to bed till about noon or so. if i was on my way to the Betmore Basement right now, i wouldnt make it.........
DCP