research paper, i need your help

O

Onemoreyouth

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
so... first off to let you know a little bit more about myself, i am a student at Judson College in Elgin(chicago area) and i'm also studying youth ministry (yes thats an actual degree) and heres what i'm wanting to write a research paper on.

something along the lines of spirituality in gambling/high stakes society.

we all know what pool halls have a culture of their own, and i really want to dig into what spirituality, and Chrisitianity, look like in that.

heres the delima, theres not a lot of books available at most if any libraries on the topic, so i would really like to buy autobiographies if your willing to part, or i would also be interested in 'loaning' them. i would be happy to pay fo the shipping both ways, and promise i wont run off with your book, nor destroy it.

i would also like to talk to some of you here on the forum about your views on religion and what not. especially if you are or have been a high stakes cash player. i promise i wont preach at your, or anything of the sort. i'm just looking to write an interesting paper, and i would be happy to post it if any of you are interested.

bottom line though.... I NEED PRINTED SOURCES... please let me know if you can help out at all... and yes i do look at the local used bookstores.


if your interested in giving me your personal opinions as a gambler, feel free to pm me.


thanks in advance.
 
There are many similarities between being in the "zone" or "dead stroke" and a meditative state. Both involve eliminating anything "extra" from the conscious mind.

For some players, the added pressure of possibly losing some cash is helpful when it comes to being able to get into that zone.
 
Ah..The Church of the Good Hustler.....I don't see how Gambling and Spirtuality really mix..or where you are going to find anything written? Not too many guys thank God after a big score...


If you wanted a Better topic try Spirituality and Professional Sports
 
I like Chris's comments. I have always felt that being in the
zone was very comparable to a zen mindset.
From a Christian point of view most hustlers I've known
do not like to mix gambling & religion. I used to play one
guy when I'd miss & say " Jesus" he'd say " What's he got to do
with it?"
 
My personal opinion of gambling.

Onemoreyouth said:
so... first off to let you know a little bit more about myself, i am a student at Judson College in Elgin(chicago area) and i'm also studying youth ministry (yes thats an actual degree) and heres what i'm wanting to write a research paper on.

something along the lines of spirituality in gambling/high stakes society.

we all know what pool halls have a culture of their own, and i really want to dig into what spirituality, and Chrisitianity, look like in that.

heres the delima, theres not a lot of books available at most if any libraries on the topic, so i would really like to buy autobiographies if your willing to part, or i would also be interested in 'loaning' them. i would be happy to pay fo the shipping both ways, and promise i wont run off with your book, nor destroy it.

i would also like to talk to some of you here on the forum about your views on religion and what not. especially if you are or have been a high stakes cash player. i promise i wont preach at your, or anything of the sort. i'm just looking to write an interesting paper, and i would be happy to post it if any of you are interested.

bottom line though.... I NEED PRINTED SOURCES... please let me know if you can help out at all... and yes i do look at the local used bookstores.


if your interested in giving me your personal opinions as a gambler, feel free to pm me.


thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
\

I grew up in a billiard parlor since my family bought ours when I was 4 years old. Have been hanging out there or playing there or working there ever since. My personal philosophy about gambling is knowing what your real chances are and staying in your comfort zone. I already learned when I was a child that it is rare for gamblers to have something nice to show for thier lives. The number of great pool players that gamble every day rarely have a nicer house than I have. I got mine just by working everyday. Last night I gambled on a particular difficult shot a player set up for me. I gambled a Diet Coke. This is my only bet I ever make. This guy is a great player and a nice guy to boot. I knew before I set up a shot for him to take I was 99% going to lose. It was not much of a "gamble" in the sense of the word. 99% to 100% is the comfort zone of what I "gamble" on. I have a reputation of never gambling...which isnt true. I just never bet the kind of money that pool players expect you to bet. I know a lot of gamblers/hustlers etc. I can't think of a single person I would want to trade lives with though. My father taught me this when I was a child. He would point out all the great players, in the room. And he would also point out "What does he have to show for all that great ability? A car that doesnt run and living with his mom at 30 yrs old". Now that I am middle aged I noticed that the scenerio my father pointed out to me has not changed much in a generation. The guys that are doing well still have steady jobs and play pool for recreation. The guys that are obsessed with pool and play GREAT are usually (not always) in financial difficulty. I know when I look at the pro players on the circuit I think to myself, I would LOVE to play like Efren. But at what cost? Would I want to tour the world away from my family 300 days a year to make $100,000? Most pool players dont make anywhere near that. If you are the best pool player in a city and cant make your own rent or keep your car running I think gambling probably played a role in that. Theres a joke in the pool community....

What does a pool player and a medium pizza have in common?
They both cant feed a family of four.

Feel free to pvt me, or email me at cuecushion@aol.com or www.cueandcushion.com if you would like to chat more. Good luck with your research paper. Craig.
 
Wonderboys

Youth

My short novel, WONDERBOYS, was serialized twice here at azbilliards.com. It might not be scientific enough for research, but you did ask for things autobiographical, and this story is based on much of my life and of my friends.

It is a story of boys who become men during the 1960's while playing fantastic pool...and yet it is a story about faith and redemption. You might not use it for your paper but I think you might like to read it for pleasure at least.

Send me a private message on how to get a copy out to you and I'll send one pronto. Good luck with your paper and all your studies.

Mike
 
As far as I know, the best reference source on the psychology and sociology of pool and gambling is the book "Hustlers, Beats, and Others" by Ned Polsky. It gives a very interesting accounting of why pool's popularity has ebbed and flowed through the years, and, while not delving into the religious aspect of pool and gambling per se, I think quite a bit can be extrapolated for your purposes. PM me your address and I'll send it to you on loan (on my dime as I like what you're about).
The person with the largest pool/billiards library in the world is Michael Shamos; he would be a terrific source for info. I E-mailed him once and he was extraordinarily gracious and generous. Give him a try. Best of luck, you're doing good work. Jeff.
 
The Kiss said:
Ah..The Church of the Good Hustler.....I don't see how Gambling and Spirtuality really mix..or where you are going to find anything written? Not too many guys thank God after a big score...


If you wanted a Better topic try Spirituality and Professional Sports
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure there's no link - One of the core pleasures of gambling is that, when you win, it feels like the Universe and/or the deity of your choice itself is rewarding you directly and personally. This must be a similar feeling spiritual people have when they believe a prayer has been answered.

The flip side, of course, is that when you lose it feels as if the Universe is punishing you just as personally.
 
In addition to "Hustlers, Beats and Others" you may want to check out an older book entitled "Where the Action Is." I wrote my masters thesis on the pool hall subculture for a graduate sociology program, but that was almost ten years ago. I may be able to dig up my bibliography if you're interested. Just send me a PM. And best of luck to you!

Alice Rim
 
thanks for all the help! i'm getting ready to send PM's to a few of you, and whatnot.... thanks for helping me get this going.... to be honest i'm surprised my teacher is letting me write on it... i wasnt sure she was at first..
 
Karma........


I have been around many pro's and professional gamblers all my life. On a personal level I have a strong religious sense. Although I don't practice the religious side enough. On the KARMA sense and from what I have heard from many Pro's and Gamblers is the simple term " What Comes Around ..........).

Many players that I have seen that have lost money or a match feel that they are being punished for something that they did in the past to another person. On the other side I have seen that when they win they feel it's because of something good they have done.

When you lose it's not only the feeling of punishment but also the feeling or thought of "Well, are you done yet." as you look up.

When you win it's the feeling of "It's about time you finished punishing me."

To many players it's not about who you believe in but what you believe in and how to better yourself along with your game.


Mj
 
MikeJanis said:
Karma........


I have been around many pro's and professional gamblers all my life. On a personal level I have a strong religious sense. Although I don't practice the religious side enough. On the KARMA sense and from what I have heard from many Pro's and Gamblers is the simple term " What Comes Around ..........).

Many players that I have seen that have lost money or a match feel that they are being punished for something that they did in the past to another person. On the other side I have seen that when they win they feel it's because of something good they have done.

When you lose it's not only the feeling of punishment but also the feeling or thought of "Well, are you done yet." as you look up.

When you win it's the feeling of "It's about time you finished punishing me."

To many players it's not about who you believe in but what you believe in and how to better yourself along with your game.

Mj
Click to expand...

I like this post. I have always told aspiring players/gamblers to get their life in order. if you have problems in your personal life, it will affect your ability to be successful as a pool player or gambler.

You live a clean life and you come to the table with a clean mind, no nagging restrictions from a clouded conscience. In fact, being in good health is a big plus too. Your body is your temple etc.

The players that lead the healthiest life styles appear often to go the furthest at any game. I can't help but think back to Harold Worst, a clean living healthy individual. But sometimes, even the good die young.
 
never really thought about spirituality in pool,,, just realized that I must subconsciously think about it though,,, my alternative email address is at www.poolgods.com ,,, weird, huh ?
 
Try http://www.geocities.com/pool4christ/cppa.html

Quote from the site:
Did you know that MANY Professional players are Christian. Here are a few that are commited Christians:
Mike Massey, Tommy Kennedy, Jim Rempe, Robin Dodson, Loree Jon Jones

I know they also do Christian trick shot shows. Robin shares her story of being a heroin addict and her recovery through Christ. :)
 
Although I don't play, my son Gabe does. I think he's been known to play high stakes at times, and I know he's pretty spiritual about many things. My sister (Gabe's aunt) & I just wrote a new Christian book and it mentions sports & pool, and is about spirituality. The overall message is basically that everyone's purpose - no matter what you do in life - is to be miracleworkers for others - to use gifts and talents to benefit others in life.

An excerpt by Dr. Steve Palmquist, Department of Religion and Philosophy, Hong Kong Baptist University: "Growing faith is found in spectator sports as well. It probably began with Muhammed Ali, the world renowned boxer, who confessed his Islamic faith from the boxing ring in the 1970’s. We’ve seen advertisements for The Passion of the Christ on Bobby LaBonte’s NASCAR race car to thankful prayers sent upwards for touchdowns on the football fields and wins in other sports. Tens of millions of Americans faithfully attend sports events. In sports there is a compatibility of hard work, teamwork and struggle for self-improvement, much of what most religions teach.
“The highest expression of both sports and religion is the aspiration to surpass our physical or spiritual limits, challenging us to reach the (previously) unreachable. Sport satisfies this aspiration in temporary ways by fulfilling mundane, physical aspirations.” The huge increase in the public’s interest in spectator sports during the past century could be attributed to the increasing irrelevance of religion. However, I see it differently. Religion has become less relevant only insofar as it has become more fanatical. The concurrent expansion of spectator sports suggests that some third factor has caused a general increase in fanaticism of all types."
Many in the pool field have been miracleworkers for Gabe and I know he's created miracles for many others - family and friends - while in this business.
We would be happy to send you a copy, just give me a PM, and it will be on it's way!
 
When the bull rider thanks God for his 8 second ride, all we can conclude is that the bull rider was all prayed up and the bull wasn't.:D
 
talk to Mike Massey

Onemoreyouth said:
bottom line though.... I NEED PRINTED SOURCES... please let me know if you can help out at all... and yes i do look at the local used bookstores.
if your interested in giving me your personal opinions as a gambler, feel free to pm me.


thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Mike Massey's story might be helpful to you. I can't remember exactly where I read it, maybe Billiard's Digest (?) Others here might know...in any event, Google Mike Massey, and you probably will find it.
 
Scaramouche wrote:
> When the bull rider thanks God for his 8 second ride,
> all we can conclude is that the bull rider was all
> prayed up, and the bull wasn't.


I can't agree more. In fact, to me all this public prayer thingee and "thank you Jesus for my touchdown" hoopla is the most arrogant and blasphemous thing I ever see. Reminds me of this video: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~peer/fartingPreacher.html

And please, don't insult me by offering your prayers -- I don't want to have anything to do with this so-called God of your which seems to be more concerned with basketball scores, Grammy thank-you speeches and bull riding, than to the fact that 24,000 children die every day due to starvation.

And on that note, maybe someone like to know what I really think about this issue: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~peer/writingsWhyTheyHate.html

-- peer
 
Steve Lillis is a professional player who runs a Christian billiard team that goes around giving exhibitions. I do not know how to contact him, perhaps others do or maybe google his name. There are a lot of very religous pros, many mentioned in earlier threads. Mike Massey would be an excellent source for you.

-Jerry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top