Resonant pitch

[dave sutton]

i agree with the moisture. i can see water deadening the vibration.
if EC says burle woods are dead i would think BEM would be less tonal then curly bc of the eyes

 

[j2pac]

I think the reason that birdseye, at least IMO has always had the better sound, more solid feel to me than curly is because the curl is actually a twisting of the wood during the growth/life of the tree, generally caused by wind, but probably other factors as well. that being said, it would only stand to reason that the curl would cause some interuption of the sound/vibration traveling through the wood. I'm sure this one of those questions however, where 10 people would swear curly, and the other 10 would say birdseye has the better "tone," and 10 more would tell him to use a different wood entirely. Lol. It's a difficult question, because there are so many things that affect the tone/hit of a cue, construction method, joint style, moisture content. Etc, etc, etc. A complicated issue indeed.
Regards.

 

[spliced]

And "rock" maple is sugar maple, whether it's straight grain, birdseye or curly.

So does straight grain have the same pitch as birdseye?

 

[JoeyInCali]

I think alot of the cuemakers have answered your question, in some form or another. I do however think that birdseye would be more tonally proper than curly, just from my personal experiences with the two. But I think the problem you run into with this question is the different species of maple. Are you talking about eastern maple, western big leaf maple, red maple, etc, etc, etc. Also the less moisture content, the better the sound, due the water in the wood acting as a muting agent. I don't know that I would say what "pitch" maple is, but most tonal musical instrument woods are of the rosewood variety, of some form or another, with perhaps blackwood, and wenge to name a few.
Regards.

I thought b'eye, curly and rock maple are the same species.
I think guitars are different. We are not concerned with the wood reflective tone while it's backed by another hardwood.
We are concerned with how the wood reasonates as a cone/dowel .

 

[j2pac]

Some curly is different.

I thought b'eye, curly and rock maple are the same species.
I think guitars are different. We are not concerned with the wood reflective tone while it's backed by another hardwood.
We are concerned with how the wood reasonates as a cone/dowel .

If you are talking about sugar/hard maple, then yes curly, birdseye, and straight grained, are all versions of the same species. You also have curly variations in Eastern Red maple, and Western Big Leaf maple, and maybe some other types of maple that aren't coming to mind as well. Those maples are generally softer, and less dense than hard maple.

 

[RocketQ]

rock maple

Is Rock Maple the same as Straight-Grain Maple?

Rock Maple= Sugar Maple= Hard Maple not always = to straigt grained maple. I have some hard maple that looks like the surface of Lake Erie But not curly.

 

[qbilder]

Sugar maple can take on nearly any figure. I currently have several variations of birdseye, wide curl/flame, tight curl/fiddleback, blistered, quilted, bark inclusion, burl, etc. It's all hard "rock" sugar maple. Or is it......

Bounce any square on concrete & it'll give you a tonal response. In my experiences, burls are dead flat & dull. Some birdseye is similar, while some has amazing tonal qualities. It's wise to study it & learn it's variations & why. Straight grain maple is usually pretty tonal, just ugly & bland. Curly maple varies a lot but the tighter figure stuff usually has wonderful tonal qualities. I see hard curly used in fiddles, violins, & several other stringed insruments, but rarely ever see birdseye unless it's fine, tiny eyes. This contrasts with availability of the wood. Birdseye can be bought from any lumber source who is of any size. Hard curly in good quality is friggin tough to get!!!! So this makes me think that instrument makers feel the same way I do, that curly maple is better than birdseye as a general rule. It certainly is dependent on each specific piece, but overall curly is better in my opinion.

You also must consider all the hard maples being sold as "hard maple". There's more than just sugar maple. But i'll not get into that. That's another topic altogether.

 

[j2pac]

Hard curly, hard to get/find.

Sugar maple can take on nearly any figure. I currently have several variations of birdseye, wide curl/flame, tight curl/fiddleback, blistered, quilted, bark inclusion, burl, etc. It's all hard "rock" sugar maple. Or is it......

Bounce any square on concrete & it'll give you a tonal response. In my experiences, burls are dead flat & dull. Some birdseye is similar, while some has amazing tonal qualities. It's wise to study it & learn it's variations & why. Straight grain maple is usually pretty tonal, just ugly & bland. Curly maple varies a lot but the tighter figure stuff usually has wonderful tonal qualities. I see hard curly used in fiddles, violins, & several other stringed insruments, but rarely ever see birdseye unless it's fine, tiny eyes. This contrasts with availability of the wood. Birdseye can be bought from any lumber source who is of any size. Hard curly in good quality is friggin tough to get!!!! So this makes me think that instrument makers feel the same way I do, that curly maple is better than birdseye as a general rule. It certainly is dependent on each specific piece, but overall curly is better in my opinion.

You also must consider all the hard maples being sold as "hard maple". There's more than just sugar maple. But i'll not get into that. That's another topic altogether.

I must say I have to agree on your point. Good quality hard curly maple is getting hard to find. I remember seeing pieces of the stuff I think you're talking about, around 10-15 years ago, and I thought when I saw that curly, that I would never want to use a cue with anything else. I still see some very wicked curly red/soft maple, and western big leaf, just not much of the kind of curly sugar/hard maple I think you're talking about, anymore. Probably got overharvested much like brazilian rosewood, or it's still lying at the bottom of the great lakes, lol. In either case, a real shame.

 

[hangemhigh]

Okay, so I'm at the shop this afternoon. I pick up a real nice straight, tight grained shaft near completion. I hold it like a Violin bow in one hand and bounce it off my palm of the other hand. I took note of the tone. Then I picked a shaft in the same state of completion, same tight and straight grain, weighing a few grams less. This shaft came from my trash bin because it has a wobble and I rejected it out of hand. I follow the same procedure as with the first shaft. The worthless shaft had a higher, clear tone as opposed to the first shaft, which had a low dull tone. So what did I learn?

 

[qbilder]

It's still around, just not as common. Curly figure in big trees is not so uncommon, especially near the base. But big trees are no longer as common. I found a very lucky source for hard curly, and it's wonderful stock. I'm buying the entire lot, which is roughly 100 turninmg squares. I'm getting it at a fair price, but it's still gonna be a dent in my wallet. When I find a source for scarce/rare woods of high quality then I buy it out in total. It's the only way to secure my supply, while eliminating it for anybody else. Sounds greedy but oh, well. I'll likely never use 100 pieces of high figure fiddleback maple, or not for years to come anyway, but i'll never have to stress trying to find some when I want it.

Don't count out red maple, either. It's often rejected becasuse it's commonly considered soft maple. In reality, it's only considered soft maple because it's softer than sugar & black maple. It's actually pretty hard, strong wood with very similar weight as sugar maple. It's not much softer, either. Western maple, AKA bigleaf, if soft. It's totally different. It really is a soft wood.

 

[qbilder]

Okay, so I'm at the shop this afternoon. I pick up a real nice straight, tight grained shaft near completion. I hold it like a Violin bow in one hand and bounce it off my palm of the other hand. I took note of the tone. Then I picked a shaft in the same state of completion, same tight and straight grain, weighing a few grams less. This shaft came from my trash bin because it has a wobble and I rejected it out of hand. I follow the same procedure as with the first shaft. The worthless shaft had a higher, clear tone as opposed to the first shaft, which had a low dull tone. So what did I learn?

You learned that even good shafts go bad, and bad shafts can still look good. I'm not saying your lower tone shaft is bad, I don't know. I'm just pointing out that there are several steps to choosing a good piece of wood. Tone is only one aspect. What you learned is that the lower pitch shaft will have a dull tone when it hits a cueball, and the high pitch shaft will have a louder, pingier sound. You basically have learned enough to get confused. Cut a few hundred more shafts down to size & hit with every single shaft before selling. By then you'll begin to have a thorough understanding of everything being talked about. It's like anything, you can be taught in lengths but you won't truly learn until you do it.

 

[masonh]

also it should be mentioend that the Big Leaf Maple has a very bright tone.it will surprise you how good it hits in a cue and it is still considered a hard wood,but i do like to core it.

Eric is right about the Red Maple,it's pretty strong.

 

[j2pac]

Coring Big leaf.

also it should be mentioend that the Big Leaf Maple has a very bright tone.it will surprise you how good it hits in a cue and it is still considered a hard wood,but i do like to core it.

Eric is right about the Red Maple,it's pretty strong.

If you're coring the big leaf, wouldn't it actually be the core doing most of the hitting?
Regards.

 

[qbilder]

If you're coring the big leaf, wouldn't it actually be the core doing most of the hitting?
Regards.

Depends on the component being cored and how big the core is. In a forearm, yes the core is what will be doing most of the hit. In a handle it would be around 50%.

 

[Chris Abaya Cues]

Good topic :thumbup:

In your opinion, does the heavier/denser wood generally have lower pitch than the lighter hardwoods? Do you prefer the higher pitched wood in the forearm or as a handle?

 

[JoeyInCali]

Good topic :thumbup:

In your opinion, does the heavier/denser wood generally have lower pitch than the lighter hardwoods? Do you prefer the higher pitched wood in the forearm or as a handle?

No.
Could go either way for me as long as they are a good match.

 

[rhncue]

also it should be mentioend that the Big Leaf Maple has a very bright tone.it will surprise you how good it hits in a cue and it is still considered a hard wood,but i do like to core it.

Eric is right about the Red Maple,it's pretty strong.

All broad leaf trees are considered hardwood. Trees without leaves are considered softwoods. The actual hardness of the woods does not factor into the equation what-so-ever. Fact is, Ponderosa Pine is a much harder wood than either Big Leaf or Western Maple. I've got some nicely figured quilted Big Leaf Maple and I can push my finger nail into it. I core nearly all of my wood and I use a .750 dowel. This means that the fore arms outer wood is only between .045 to .125 thick. Almost just like a veneer. What you feel in my cues is the core.

Dick

 

[masonh]

Fact is, Ponderosa Pine is a much harder wood than either Big Leaf or Western Maple.

actually Ponderosa Pine is not as strong or tough as Big Leaf definitely not stronger.

Big Leaf specs are:
bending strength-10,486 psi
max crushing strength-5831 psi
shear strength-1695 psi
stiffness-1421 psi
actual hardness- 833 lbs

Ponderosa pine are:
bending strength-9500 psi
max crushing strength-5230 psi
shear strength-1046 psi
stiffness- 1284 psi
actual hardness- 392psi

you can see from the above specs that the actuall hardness is the Maple is more than twice as hard as the Pine,and the Maple is actually stronger in every category.the Pine is slightly heavier which may lead some to think it's stronger,but it isn't.

 

[RFisher]

Hey A-holes, quit talking about my sister damn it,


OH wait, RESONANT PITCH, I'm sorry guys,

I thought you said: RESIDENT BIT$H.

MY BAD.

 

[masonh]

Hey A-holes, quit talking about my sister damn it,

don't worry,i was referring to my x-wife.