Returning to 8-ball

JarrodE

JarrodE

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I'm from the midwest so I started out playing bar table, bar rules, 8-ball. I didn't understand 9-ball and just wanted to play the game I knew. Eventually I joined an 8-ball league (APA). Playing league I learned the importance of ball-in-hand and the absurdity of such things as call shot (kisses, caroms, banks) and pocketing the 8-ball cleanly. As I got better I grew to prefer 9-ball and even looked down upon strictly 8-ball players. I found that the people I ran into that only played 8-ball really weren't very good. I occasionally ventured out (14.1) but overall I preferred 9-ball. I then moved onto call pocket 10-ball, 14.1, and one pocket. Recently I've come back to playing 8-ball and even prefer it to rotation games. I find that there is a lot more strategy involved. In rotation games it isn't hard to run a few balls and play safe. I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced a similar path and if anyone that has become a lot better player has come back to 8-ball and seen it under a whole new light. Have you found it a completely different game when played at a higher level?
 
been playing 14.1 and doing very well. okay but not my best game apparently. the other day i was noticing the difference is shot making between 14.1 and my doing drills. i tries a couple of racks of 8 ball at practice session and noticed i was pocketing more balls. so i was invited to join a 8 ball apa league monday night. yesterday played with one of the members and while he was rated higher than myself, i was shooting equal or better than him. either running the rack or having only one ball left before the 8 ball. i wish i knew why i shoot better 8 ball than 14.1 but there is no doubt about it. something to do with rhythm maybe? anyway, 8 ball here i come.
 
JarrodE said:
I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced a similar path and if anyone that has become a lot better player has come back to 8-ball and seen it under a whole new light. Have you found it a completely different game when played at a higher level?
Click to expand...

Yes and very similar experiences lead me back to where it began. 8-ball and 1P certainly elevate the thinking part of the sport and are best enjoyed after learning some of the other games first.
 
Keep playing 14.1 your 8 ball well really improve . You will learn how to break balls out correctly and patterns will be great. good luck.
 
I love 8 ball as long as my opponent doesn't start telling me the OB glanced off a cushion before it went in therefore bla bla bla.

I like the options 8 ball let's you choose in patterns.

With my buddies back in OH, we use to play bank 8 with "don't forget your buddy".
Which means you have to look at your opponent's eyes while shooting the 8 on a bank. He can't stand more than 90* from you, a basement version for sure.
 
8 ball is just one of those things that is hit or miss with me. I have a friend I sometimes play 8 ball with, he has a really good stroke and he plays 8 ball the proper way. I enjoy playing 8 ball with him because it's tough and there are a lot of run outs. But I can't stand playing 8 ball with 96% of the other people in this city. I can't stand watching people poke at balls or make 1 ball and play safe and so on. I don't even play the game properly at all and just with having a stroke from playing rotation I still do pretty well in the game. I wish I knew how to play it properly though, it would bring me to the next level of being a strong A player.

So for now it's all 9-10 ball and sometimes 15 ball rotation.
 
oldplayer said:
been playing 14.1 and doing very well. okay but not my best game apparently. the other day i was noticing the difference is shot making between 14.1 and my doing drills. i tries a couple of racks of 8 ball at practice session and noticed i was pocketing more balls. so i was invited to join a 8 ball apa league monday night. yesterday played with one of the members and while he was rated higher than myself, i was shooting equal or better than him. either running the rack or having only one ball left before the 8 ball. i wish i knew why i shoot better 8 ball than 14.1 but there is no doubt about it. something to do with rhythm maybe? anyway, 8 ball here i come.
Click to expand...

I believe your skill in 8 ball should not be dictated by running "most" of the balls. If you have one of your set left on the table, playing a good player you will be dead in the water everytime.

Balls should only be pocketed when they help you break out clusters or get to another ball that helps you with something. The easy balls help you with the difficult ones. I have a friend that plays rotation well but his 8 ball strategy sucks. He pockets balls hoping and never really having a plan.

Eight ball has a lot of strategy, but the better you are at pool, the more offensive it becomes. At the pro level, 8 ball is a run out game just like 9 ball.

I am not presuming your skill level. Your mention of running all but one made it sound like that is a good thing.
 
I wouldn't go as far to say that 8 ball is a run out game like 9 ball. Two different beast. I've overheard a semi pro player comment one night during a 8 ball tourney that 8 ball is way harder because of more balls or as he called it, traffic to go through, more clusters than 9 ball, basically, more problems to deal with in 8 ball.

Reason is as you stated-strategy. I real knowledgeable 8 ball player will cause anyone fits.

By knowledgeable, I meaning be able to read the layout of the table after a break or your first turn at the table.

There are times to run out, times to make a few, times to move a few around and so on. It's knowing when to strike, to go for the kill that's key.
 
I think ANY game played at a higher level is a different game. Doesn't matter if it's chess, hockey, tiddly winks, or even fishing! I can't stand bar rules...wich loosely translates into "whatever rules favor the house players." Calling banks and kiss shots and virtually the entire path of every ball is stupid. These same players would then flip out...literally get red-faced angry, if you played a safety on them. 8 Ball is generally not the best of billiards games to demonstrate the best of the best in billiards. Most of the players I encounter, even the best ones, are not in the same league as people like Reyes or Strickland...in fact we can't even see their planet from ours. As such, 8 Ball becomes a different game even at our relatively elevated level of play over typical bar ball smashers.

I once read about billiards in general that the pros rarely get the ball on a missed shot, it's usually a safey. As such, a pro rarely gives up the ball on a missed shot, it's usually a planed concession of his turn at the table. At my level, the tables turn pretty frequently. And nobody is at the level where if we get a ball on the break then there is a 99% chance we'll run the table out.

So...Bar bangers play "bar pool." I liken this to touch football. There are rules, but they're not the rules the pros play by and they will likely not make you a better player if you continue to play flag football. The good and great 8 Ball players that I know play by all the correct rules. They use a safety at least every other game. And they play intelligently. Beyond this there are all the big money 8 Ball tournaments. That's a level where it's a shock when the breaking player doesn't win the table from the break.

To this end, sure 8 ball is a different game. And unless you're a pro and 8 Ball is simply not a difficult enough gauge for your talent, then I feel 8 Ball is a very fun and challenging game at even near-pro levels. When the two players cant just win rack ofter rack on the break, the strategy of well-played safeties becomes magnified and quite interesting.
 
I love 8 Ball because it can really force you to think about all the potential variables during any given game...it's not as cut and dry as 9 Ball, IMHO. It is also a game that lends itself beautifully to shot safety play. I can play a safety...but typically would much rather play shot safety instead. Often your opponent isn't even aware that it's happening (at least not right away)...just that you are somehow constantly leaving them hooked after a missed shot. Don't get me wrong....I play to win, however, there are times when opting for the lower percentage shot because of the resulting position left for your opponent, should you fail to pocket the ball, will leave them either hooked or in a bad place at the wrong end of the table is the better shot to take. Kinda like the 'bunt' in baseball. :smile:

I also agree that it really makes a difference if you are playing with better players, using more 'standardized' rules. I won't even bother if I have to deal with the various 'bar rules'...some bordering on the ridiculous. Kinda feels like some of those new game shows you see on tv in the evenings...lol.

I think that a well played game of 8 Ball between skilled players can be wildly entertaining...and will typically keep a table busy all night long.:thumbup:

Lisa
 
Personally, I'd much rather play 8-ball, as long as we play by a good set of rules. I play in a league where we use APA rules, except for the table always being "open" after the break. IMO, it's the god-awful "Bar Rules" that give serious players a distaste for the game. Safety play is a lot more intricate, since you're trying to hide the cue ball from multiple options, not just a single ball of a 9-ball game. We play on 7, 8 & 9 foot tables and 15 balls on a 7ft. table can really test your strategic ability. Plus, games are played one at a time, rather than long sets, so there are no long waits for the next shooter to get to the table, and everyone stays interested. I truly enjoyed watching the best players known battle on the televised matches of the ill-fated IPT series. Too bad it was all built on a house of cards.

Bill
 
JarrodE said:
Have you found it a completely different game when played at a higher level?
Click to expand...

Yes.

It is often trashed on simply because it is the common game played by people who aren't really into pool so it is often played poorly. It makes the game look bad.

Great game and I like to play it. I don't know that I prefer it...let's say it depends on my mood.
 
I like 8-ball but I'm not a big fan of the APA's version. It should be a call-pocket game, IMO. I've seen too many times a player will have their opponent "clustered up" with several balls, clearly having the advantage in that game, only to lose the game because the opponent slammed into the cluster sending balls flying all over the table with one eventually finding a pocket. That's NOT strategy!

When I played BCA 8-ball league, it was one of my finest experiences ever in pool!

8-ball is a good game to play if you want to incorporate strategy with shotmaking into a game that doesn't take 30 minutes to finish. 14.1 and 1-pocket are better strategy games but can take a long time to play while rotation games are better games for shotmakers but can literally be over in SECONDS, so I'd venture to say that 8-ball is a happy medium!!!

Once again, JMHO.

Maniac
 
If I somehow end up on a 7' table, and that's rare, and some wants to play "bar rules", I quit. I'm racist about pool - play right or go buy me beer. Seriously, what's next, I'm expected to play snooker on a carom table?
 
Ah, the 8b saga continues..

Bar rules.. I like those, too. Nothing says skill like having to do exactly as you say you will, imho.

APA 8b.. sure, there's slop. Then why not take advantage of the rule? Go for two-fers, hit medium speed banks that can Z in. Then there's the break.. take what you make on the break can be a bit more tricky than an open table.

8b takes much more creativity at a higher level. You must be able to shoot, manipulate the table and then there's safety play.. if you have problems with somebody that safes up after every ball, you've got a lot of defensive strategy to learn. The object of the game(aside from a visible runout) is to position your balls for a future runout while doing your best to do the reverse for your opponent.

I'll play pretty much any rules, as long as you're able to tell me what they are before we start. If we're playing 'bar rules'/'straight 8', then I'll play call shot, open break, no pure defense.. nearly all people that play that way aren't going to be running tables anyhow. If gambling, you should bring a real, standardized set of rules into play.
 
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