Revolutionary New Aiming System !

5aheadforpinks said:
I have changed my opinion about aiming systems; while they may provide a decent guide, with only this info a newbie would still be lost. With any english shot, how much the cue ball will move is based on the speed. Yet even with this info, a player needs to know how to shoot the cue ball in a straight line; and a player needs to learn how much his cue ball deflects at different speeds and spins.

The cue ball is just a round rock that you push around with a long piece of wood. The physics or aiming is natural, what is not natural is how to completly control the cue ball. Once you develop a consistant hit and feel for the cue ball, and understand how to bend the cue ball along your line of aim with proper speed; everything just falls in place.

I watched an archer shoot a tylanol that was thrown by his wife in the air at over 20 feet with the tip of his arrow. The same guy could also shoot three balloons with one arrow that were set in a jagged down, up, down pattern. He had so much control over the arrow, he knew exactly where the tip was going; which is exactly what we do with the cue ball, the entire cueball is our tip. He got so good with an arrow by practising shooting out the flame of a candle in a pitch black room.

What does this mean?? While you could spend all your time looking at the imaginary lines of where you think the cue ball should go; you could spend your time learning exactly where the cue ball is going. Take out the guess work or the "close" aiming system, and give yourself a better intuitive judgement of what you are doing. The physics are in plain sight, its human error we must try and overcome.

I would be willing to bet money that this Robin Hood friend of yours started out by learning the "fundamentals" of shooting an arrow when he was a newbie...

The aiming system is only a "tool" that allows the newbie to learn what is correct and allow them to learn the "proper" feel...You can learn to make balls with a flawed and crooked stroke, or you can learn to make balls with a straight and properly alinged cue...

I wish when I first started learning this game someone would have taught me the "correct" fundamentals...That way I would not have had to spend the last year trying to re-do the entire way I play this game, and I would have had more time to spend learning to move the CB.

I do agree that the separtation between good players and "GREAT" players is cue ball control. However...those "GREAT" players know that they are set up and aimed correctly, and they are going to pocket the ball...so they are able to focus more on "shape" rather than focusing on pocketing balls...

As short as 10 years ago, it was much harder to get the information that is available today.....Since so much great information on this game is now easily available, why not make use of it?
 
Ive read and tried many types of aiming systems, what Ive found is that I can hit exactly where I aim at... thats no problem, the problem is where to hit the object ball so that it finds a pocket...

Colin Colenso, that system isnt going to work... I wont say why, I will say its best to work on delivering your tip to the cue ball, IE stroke, if you can stroke straight, set up some shots, and use lazer to pin point the contact point.. with that big red dot you now have a visual image to "hit". I dont think there could be a better way to learn the "shots"...

Every shot to me is straight in, in a sense, once lined up, if I am lined up on the correct contact point, the shot is the same as if it were straight in, the only differance is what the shot "looks" like... or what part of the object ball Im trying to contact... Pocketing balls shouldnt be that hard, position, key balls, stratagey etc... is what a player really needs to focus on, there are two many other variables to worrie about, pocketing should not be one of them... Granted some shots are tough, but is it the shot, or the position?

some shots may require you to line up with spin, like a shot you can hit but seemingly not enough to pocket, to whitch you can pocket with spin... these shots are exactly the same, but slightly differnt, it takes time and practice not to mention knowing your own stroke, to know how to line up these shots...

Everything works together, to play championship pool even the tip shape is critical...

Thats why I really dont respond to many of these type threads, to fully understand and explain sometimes requires you to cover to many aspects of the game in one thread...

in a nut shell, if you have a hard time pocketing balls, work on that stroke, and work on knowing where the correct contact point is.. This will bring your game up leaps and bounds further than trying to make a complex game even more complicated.. Use a practical device such as a lazer... may be the best bang for the buck you could ever spend to improve your game...


2wld4u
 
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Awww i love all the aiming systems or techniques here, Fred taught me the pivot method and man it works for me, but there are a few different others that i use on different shots, I think DM said he uses three systems all together. But for me you can use any system that you want or which one that works for you but you have to make shure you are in the correct alignment first off. I practice shot over and over to find the correct alignment, Like Allison does she said she practices body base shots to deliver the cue just right. Although i have to adjust on league nights going from 9 foot tables to 7 footers.
 
FWIW, I must say that I really don't understand all these aiming systems. Frankly, I just naturally learned where to aim to pocket the object ball--i.e., the more you play the better you get at 'knowing' where to aim to pocket the ball. It's that simple. You get down on a shot and you can just see where to aim, so you focus in and you let your stroke happen and execute the shot and that's that.

I suppose that a 'system' could work for some people, but to me pool is a game of sophisticated hand-eye coordination and very subtle and nuanced touch/feel, and I can't for my part see where trying to adopt some kind of semi-formal aiming technique would do anything except screw up what I've already learned.
 
TheConArtist said:
I think DM said he uses three systems all together. But for me you can use any system that you want or which one that works for you but you have to make shure you are in the correct alignment first off.


Yes I do...and yes you have to have the correct alignment. Your head and eyes have to be positioned properly to be looking at either a ball to ball relationship if you're using something like that or properly sighted down your cue line so that it's right on the aiming point.
 
PoolBum said:
FWIW, I must say that I really don't understand all these aiming systems.

Well...then it's probably not good that you comment about something you know NOTHING about.

Frankly, I just naturally learned where to aim to pocket the object ball--i.e., the more you play the better you get at 'knowing' where to aim to pocket the ball. It's that simple. You get down on a shot and you can just see where to aim, so you focus in and you let your stroke happen and execute the shot and that's that.

If you know nothing about aiming systems...then from your perspective this is all you have to go on that makes sense to you. Sure, the more you play the better you get at "knowing". But you just said it in your own word..."knowing WHERE TO AIM" . So you ARE AIMING and using some kind of system, regardless how rudimentary it is. How many times do we have to go through this for it to sink into skulls. YOU SAID IT, NOT ME.

I suppose that a 'system' could work for some people, but to me pool is a game of sophisticated hand-eye coordination and very subtle and nuanced touch/feel, and I can't for my part see where trying to adopt some kind of semi-formal aiming technique would do anything except screw up what I've already learned.

I guess you're right. How could you POSSIBLY get any better than you are right now?? :rolleyes:
 
I really dont snap at people because they dont understand something, some people point and shoot. some people use the 'lights" some people draw lines, some people split the balls in half, some use ghost balls, eclipse or something like that... and there are others... Make your own system, learn where the contact points are, hitting the center of the pocket, thats where I want all my shots, and to do so, I have to know where the contact point would be.

Rail shots, for example, if you run a straight line between the pockets at there centers, the actual contact point is off center of the object ball, now this really doesnt matter if your straight in, but at an angle instead of trying to hit the rail then the ball. you will make the ball more often by knowing exactly the point that connects the ball to the center of the pocket... If you stroke straight, I have a couple exercises I use to hone my stroke... so simple yet so effective... the whole point is to perfect the delivery of the tip to the cue ball...

your eyes.. I see alot of people looking at the cue ball on the final stroke... this is not good... Just like baseball, football etc.. you sure dont look at the ball when you throw it.. your eyes are locked on your target... thats your final stroke, preperation up to that point will untimately determine if you pocket the ball or miss..

your feet.. the first step I take is to walk behind the shot, to see where I need to hit it.. from there to through the center of the cue ball, to the floor.. there is where I place my right foot... the left foot is set at a 45* angle to my right foot... This will move the cue away from your body.. I place my cue right over my right foot, sometimes I'll close one eye and look down at my foot, if the butt of the cue is right over my toes on my right foot.. Im good..

My left arm is locked, without moving the cue should line up center of the cue ball in line with the shot... if I did nothing else I should be able to pocket the shot... I mentioned this because the is the foundation for every system... without placing my right foot on line there is no way I could have decent form... all the pro's approach the table this way or simular.. this is key for a good stroke as well.. if the cue is to close or to far away from your body you will not be able to stroke in a straight line.. no matter the style, the final stroke has to be straight...

your bridge hand.. You need a good bridge, open handed may be good for some, 90% of everybody else needs a firm bridgehand.. my bridge hand is differnt that the tri-pod style, whitch allows me to get even tighter.. The grip hand needs to be not so tight.. If your stroke pivots at the end of your stroke, loosen up a bit... This is the path to super human english... People ask me, how do I draw the cue ball? first and foremost you need to hit low on the cue ball, right? then why do most people not hit there? I mean I worked with a guy for 15 min, trying to teach him how to draw, everytime I would point where he needed to hit the cue ball, he would stroke the shot to hit there everytime, but on the final stroke he hit center ball.. thats why the delivery is so important.. if I need a full table draw to win, I need to be assured Im hitting where I need to..

That stroke also needs to be in line with the shot, the best way I know to do this is this.. My stroke is drawing a bow string, I pull it back, then release... this helps me to stroke the cue ball very accurately.. 90 mph strokes look good but do nothing for accuracy , some people stroke the ball 20 times, I only need 3....


I think I give enough to help players get the idea, use any system you desire, the key is your foundation... addressing the table is the first step any teacher needs to cover first... imo.. I dont think ive ever seen a twisted up crooked stroking pro.. there delivery is dead stroke... everything before that is for show... the banjo players anyhow..


2wld4u
 
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2wld4u said:
I really dont snap at people because they dont understand something, some people point and shoot. some people use the 'lights" some people draw lines, some people split the balls in half, some use ghost balls, eclipse or something like that... and there are others... Make your own system, learn where the contact points are, hitting the center of the pocket, thats where I want all my shots, and to do so, I have to know where the contact point would be.

Absolutely, as long as you find the CPs you should be alright regardless of the system that you use. That's not the question. The problem are the people who say, "No, all this talk about systems are useless you just need to develop a feel". I'm sorry but yes, you need practice and you need to develop a feel for the game, but I guarantee that if you solely go by feel your game will stagnate and you'll get stuck or one day you'll be out of stroke and you won't know how to fix it.

Rail shots, for example, if you run a straight line between the pockets at there centers, the actual contact point is off center of the object ball, now this really doesnt matter if your straight in, but at an angle instead of trying to hit the rail then the ball. you will make the ball more often by knowing exactly the point that connects the ball to the center of the pocket... If you stroke straight, I have a couple exercises I use to hone my stroke... so simple yet so effective... the whole point is to perfect the delivery of the tip to the cue ball...

If you draw a straight line through the ball on line with the direction you want the ball to go I.E. along the rail instead of to the back of the center of the pocket then the contact points DO align.

your eyes.. I see alot of people looking at the cue ball on the final stroke... this is not good... Just like baseball, football etc.. you sure dont look at the ball when you throw it.. your eyes are locked on your target... thats your final stroke, preperation up to that point will untimately determine if you pocket the ball or miss..

You say farther down that you question why people don't hit bottom CB when trying to draw, If they're not looking at the cue ball when they hit it how in the hell can they know where they're hitting it? I suggest that people learn to follow their tip on their practice strokes looking along the aimline even when you're using english I know that with the aim and pivot system you;d actually be looking at two different lines but all that does is give you a better idea of how much squirt and english you will be imparting. That way you can be absolutely sure WHERE you're hitting the CB.

your feet.. the first step I take is to walk behind the shot, to see where I need to hit it.. from there to through the center of the cue ball, to the floor.. there is where I place my right foot... the left foot is set at a 45* angle to my right foot... This will move the cue away from your body.. I place my cue right over my right foot, sometimes I'll close one eye and look down at my foot, if the butt of the cue is right over my toes on my right foot.. Im good..

Some people do this slightly differently although I agree for the most part. My personal preference is to point my forward foot toward the pocket I'm aiming at when possible.

My left arm is locked, without moving the cue should line up center of the cue ball in line with the shot... if I did nothing else I should be able to pocket the shot... I mentioned this because the is the foundation for every system... without placing my right foot on line there is no way I could have decent form... all the pro's approach the table this way or simular.. this is key for a good stroke as well.. if the cue is to close or to far away from your body you will not be able to stroke in a straight line.. no matter the style, the final stroke has to be straight...

your bridge hand.. You need a good bridge, open handed may be good for some, 90% of everybody else needs a firm bridgehand.. my bridge hand is differnt that the tri-pod style, whitch allows me to get even tighter.. The grip hand needs to be not so tight.. If your stroke pivots at the end of your stroke, loosen up a bit... This is the path to super human english... People ask me, how do I draw the cue ball? first and foremost you need to hit low on the cue ball, right? then why do most people not hit there? I mean I worked with a guy for 15 min, trying to teach him how to draw, everytime I would point where he needed to hit the cue ball, he would stroke the shot to hit there everytime, but on the final stroke he hit center ball.. thats why the delivery is so important.. if I need a full table draw to win, I need to be assured Im hitting where I need to..

Maybe because you're telling him to look at the OB when he makes his last stroke? If you correctly knew where the C.P.s were and lined up accordingly you should be able to close your eyes and stroke that ball straight in. You used the football analogy when you probably should have used the baseball or golf analogy. In baseball or golf you want to watch the ball as you make contact with it so you KNOW that you're hitting it. I don't know why it would be any different in pool?

That stroke also needs to be in line with the shot, the best way I know to do this is this.. My stroke is drawing a bow string, I pull it back, then release... this helps me to stroke the cue ball very accurately.. 90 mph strokes look good but do nothing for accuracy , some people stroke the ball 20 times, I only need 3....


I think I give enough to help players get the idea, use any system you desire, the key is your foundation... addressing the table is the first step any teacher needs to cover first... imo.. I dont think ive ever seen a twisted up crooked stroking pro.. there delivery is dead stroke... everything before that is for show... the banjo players anyhow..


2wld4u

The best thing you can do is learn fundamentals and practice, then gain knowledge of various systems and practice and then once you develop your OWN way of doing things and learn to use those systems, THEN practice and develop a FEEL for the game because you'll have the knowledge for the FEEL to be developed correctly. If you can do that, THEN you WILL be able to shoot the lights out.
 
drivermaker said:
Yes I do...and yes you have to have the correct alignment. Your head and eyes have to be positioned properly to be looking at either a ball to ball relationship if you're using something like that or properly sighted down your cue line so that it's right on the aiming point.
Hey DM...I'm sure you've documented the aiming systems you use somewhere in these forums. Can you point me to where I can find it? I'm always on the lookout for a better way to do things, and if I feel your aiming system is better than the one I use, then i'll gladly use it (yes, even if it comes from you DM).
 
cuetechasaurus said:
He doesn't always do this, I have 5 tapes of him playing. In 4 of them he was lining up straight and going straight thru on nearly all shots. On one tape, which was from years ago when he first came here, he was doing what you described. The tapes with him shooting straight are more recent tapes, dated from '95- present.

Recent is '95-present? '95 is quite a while ago.

Anyway, I just saw him at the US Open in September, and he did this every shot, including the break. He would clearly go back to center before his final stroke.

Fred
 
2wld4u said:
Ive read and tried many types of aiming systems, what Ive found is that I can hit exactly where I aim at... thats no problem, the problem is where to hit the object ball so that it finds a pocket...

I've read this sentence several times over and over. Having trouble "finding where to hit the object ball" is exactly when aim systems are most useful. Most people have no idea where to aim, because they are relying on intuitive judgement. And many people could stand to have more than intuitive judgement.

Fred
 
Lemme say one more thing.

There has been some debate on this forum as to the usefullness of systems vs. feel. I read an interesting article at the begining of the year in billiards digest of technical players vs. feel players. I have been both at various times but I think something has been getting lost here.

It doesn't matter what system you use there is going to be an element of feel involved and it doesn't matter how much you practice there is going to be an element of a system, (even if it's not conscious). Let me illustrate this.

If you're for instance using the aim and pivot system for imparting spin and you have a straight shot and need to use squirt to change the angle for the CB to go where you need it for the next shot. There is no way that you can know what angle the CB will travel except by experience and feel. Same thing with the amount of draw on an angled shot or follow. Yes the parabola is what the CB will follow but it is contingent upon how hard you stroke the ball, so it comes down to feel.

Same thing with banks. It doesn't matter what system you use, diamonds, or natural angle etc. it will still come down to feel because it matters how hard you stroke the ball as to what angle the ball will take when it leaves the rail.

I have a strange way of lining up on kick shots that works extremely well for me and people ask me what I'm doing all of the time. Most are surprised to find out that I'm not using a real system. I just line up my cue along the OB's Tangent line so I know where the CP is and guess the standard angle and tehn use my experience and feel to change the aim angle based on the speed I plan on hitting it etc, but I basically go on feel.

when you're shooting a 16 foot kick and making an object ball from a foot off of the pocket at a 30 degree angle a lot of people find the feel thing hard to believe. Or a three rail kick in the same circumstances.

That three ball hustle of cornbread red's I've done in nine shots. I made the back ball on the first shot.

Feel can be devoloped to a great degree, but the point is the knowledge must be there too.

The opposite is true also. Feel players ARE using a system. Even if that system is as simple as looking at the angle of the OB and feeling from there.

The only problem I have is when people say that the knowledge is secondary to practice. I completely disagree, the knowledge is intrinsic to proper practice and correct FEEL. If I could have had someone 12 or 15 years ago impart all of the knowledge I have now I would have loved it, even if I wouldn't have understood it yet because as I practiced I would've noticed things a lot sooner.
 
Absolutely

Cornerman said:
I've read this sentence several times over and over. Having trouble "finding where to hit the object ball" is exactly when aim systems are most useful. Most people have no idea where to aim, because they are relying on intuitive judgement. And many people could stand to have more than intuitive judgement.

Fred

Intuitive judgement will only go so far if that's all a person relies on and it's most dangerous when a person gets in a funk, because they'll have nothing to rely on excepot their intuitive judgement and at that point it (their intuitive judgement) obviously isn't working.
 
jsp said:
Hey DM...I'm sure you've documented the aiming systems you use somewhere in these forums. Can you point me to where I can find it? I'm always on the lookout for a better way to do things, and if I feel your aiming system is better than the one I use, then i'll gladly use it (yes, even if it comes from you DM).


In the future...don't be so sure about ANYTHING. It isn't documented.
However, I seriously doubt that you would try any of the systems or use them. They don't involve physics or geometry...can't really be laid out on paper and diagrammed...and make no sense to the so called "intellectuals" of pool. They're really only for dumb asses like me with simple minds.
 
Cornerman said:
I think Franscisco must be doing some kind of pivot alignment system for straight in shots. He always starts off aiming off center, then he pivots to the center on his last warm up stroke. You can see him shaking his grip hand sort of locking it into place.

Fred

The only reason I can think of is that he is lining up his bridge-hand and not the Q. He is not aiming with the Q, he is deliberately moving it out of the way so he can see the straight line in order to placed the bridge on the line of the shot.
It stands to reason that to hit a ball through the middle on a straight shot, the bridge has to be exactly on line.

Gabber
 
drivermaker said:
In the future...don't be so sure about ANYTHING. It isn't documented.
However, I seriously doubt that you would try any of the systems or use them. They don't involve physics or geometry...can't really be laid out on paper and diagrammed...and make no sense to the so called "intellectuals" of pool. They're really only for dumb asses like me with simple minds.

I always knew you thought I was a dumb ass... ;) :D
 
Gabber said:
The only reason I can think of is that he is lining up his bridge-hand and not the Q. He is not aiming with the Q, he is deliberately moving it out of the way so he can see the straight line in order to placed the bridge on the line of the shot.
It stands to reason that to hit a ball through the middle on a straight shot, the bridge has to be exactly on line.

Gabber

I am not sure I would even attempt a "guess"...The only one that really knows is FB himself.....Now if someone could get him to post here...then we would all know.
 
drivermaker said:
In the future...don't be so sure about ANYTHING. It isn't documented.
However, I seriously doubt that you would try any of the systems or use them. They don't involve physics or geometry...can't really be laid out on paper and diagrammed...and make no sense to the so called "intellectuals" of pool. They're really only for dumb asses like me with simple minds.
Well, see...I assumed that you documented it simply because you've ripped on other people's aiming systems (and the people that claim they don't use any system). I figured that you wouldn't have the right to criticize if you haven't previously put your own foot forward and explained the system that you use. Why not post your system? Are you afraid that we'd tear your system apart? Or are you probably worried that we'd all be masters of pool once your secret knowledge comes out. Cmon, you even said I can't run "3 fookin balls" with my aiming system, so yours should definitely help me out. Please help a brother out and post your system. :p
 
jsp said:
Well, see...I assumed that you documented it simply because you've ripped on other people's aiming systems (and the people that claim they don't use any system). I figured that you wouldn't have the right to criticize if you haven't previously put your own foot forward and explained the system that you use. Why not post your system? Are you afraid that we'd tear your system apart? Or are you probably worried that we'd all be masters of pool once your secret knowledge comes out. Cmon, you even said I can't run "3 fookin balls" with my aiming system, so yours should definitely help me out. Please help a brother out and post your system. :p


The system only gets handed down through word of mouth to those worthy enough either by having open minds or just good guys in general. There are about 1/2 dozen guys on here that I've given it to. My take on it is...you're not worthy.

On the other hand...I've also passed it on to someone else who now has all the rights to discuss it and determine who is or isn't worthy. I taught him everything he knows. Call Hal Houle at your convenience...just give ME your REAL name in order that I can get in touch with him and tell him to expect your call before I give you his number.
 
BRKNRUN said:
I am not sure I would even attempt a "guess"...The only one that really knows is FB himself.....Now if someone could get him to post here...then we would all know.

Ok, I was being too modest. :) Its exactly what he is doing. Why would anyone line up a straight shot by aiming off-center? :confused:
Logic [ and my own personal experience] dictates that he is not using the Q to line up. If he swivels back to make the shot it means that the bridge is already on the potting line.
Basically, he see's the line thru the middle of the 2 balls, places his bridge on that line and then swivels to make the shot.

Gabber.....wonder if I will score any Brownie points from the sports-fans for this astounding observation.............no chance.LOL.. :p
 
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