Revolutionary New Aiming System !

[Jimmy M.]

What part of the pocket are you drawing the line from...and are you drawing your line from the same part of the pocket to CB as OB. Remember, all OB's can't be shot at the center of the pocket from a shallow angle with balls close to a rail. You actually have to aim at a pocket facing, otherwise you'll be hitting a rail short. Same thing with a CB. Sounds flawed to me.

Both lines from the pocket start at the same location (either to the OB or the CB), whether that starts at a pocket facing, the center of the pocket, or anywhere in between. Like I was trying to say, I wouldn't really call this a "system". I have noticed that relationship between "contact points" does exist on many shots. I think that trying to use this as a basis for how you aim probably wouldn't be the best idea. I know I don't. In fact, other than noticing the existence of that relationship between the contact points, I never think about it at all. I just posted because it sounds similar to what Colin was showing in his images.

 

[Chicken_Blood]

Its also on an old pool video called the "Ultimate Aiming System".

 

[ScottR]

No...it's different. I think Fred has changed some ingredients around and came up with his own recipe. He's talking "contact points" and I'm more interested in "aiming points". There's a big difference...but it at least gets Colin outta my hair.

Thanks. I thought so, but wanted to confirm.

I swear I'm practicing . . . . just not as much as I should.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Both lines from the pocket start at the same location (either to the OB or the CB), whether that starts at a pocket facing, the center of the pocket, or anywhere in between. Like I was trying to say, I wouldn't really call this a "system". I have noticed that relationship between "contact points" does exist on many shots. I think that trying to use this as a basis for how you aim probably wouldn't be the best idea. I know I don't. In fact, other than noticing the existence of that relationship between the contact points, I never think about it at all. I just posted because it sounds similar to what Colin was showing in his images.

Hi Jimmy,
The point CB2 in the diagrams which is the flop sided image of the CB contact point does not align through the pocket...accept on straight in shots, and it may seem close when the CB is close to the OB.

It is a point similar to the contact point on the OB. Extrapolated via a parallel line.

I'm checking out this system, and it works, but it takes a lot of concentration to get it to work well on the harder shots. A lot of jaw outs for me. I think it is a good way to point you in the basic direction, but right at this moment I feel I can be more accurate with my older system...path (IJ) system.

 

[jjinfla]

Somehow I think your green line is not right. It seems that this should be a half ball hit so the green line should actually extend to the left edge of the OB. That sure is a purdy picture though.

But then, what do I know. That's a method that someone who calls himself the preacher teaches, and he is old. But he did run over 300 a few months back.

I myself like the contact point to contact point, with feel, and pray.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Somehow I think your green line is not right. It seems that this should be a half ball hit so the green line should actually extend to the left edge of the OB. That sure is a purdy picture though.

But then, what do I know. That's a method that someone who calls himself the preacher teaches, and he is old. But he did run over 300 a few months back.

I myself like the contact point to contact point, with feel, and pray.

If the green line lines up with the OB edge, then that is a half ball shot, and will send the OB at 30 degrees (minus throw).

If you have a 35 degree cut to make, then you'll miss unless it's pretty close to the pocket.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I have to say first that Efren uses the pivot system, that in itself should tell you something. When he explained it to me it was after his shooting a dead straight shot with 2 tips of right and 2 tips of follow, in other words a dramaticly two o'clock shot. He did it by aiming straight to center on the OB and pivoting for the spin leaving his bridge in the exact same position as he stroked through the ball.

I didn't believe that that was what he was doing or that it would work for every shot. In fact I didn't even try it to see if it would work until three years later when Chip Klein was talking about it down in San Diego so I thought I would try it. Sure enough it works.

The 1/4 ball and what not is just another way to find the aim point for the proper contact points. If you think about the curve of the CB and the OB as they are coming together from different angles you;ll realize that there is a specific amount of off aim depending on the angle of the shot. Once you understand that you still have to be able to accurately determine the angle of the cut to be able to find the right aim point.

I personally feel the ghost ball technique is the easiest or I just use one of the techniques to get on aim and then just trust my feel for each shot after I get on using an aiming technique.

That works fine but you still have to know the technique for when you get off and can't figure out how to fix it.

Once you have the proper aimpoint it's just a matter of pivoting for the right English, and stroking straight through the shot at the right speed. Easy right? Just run out and you'll be good.

Hi Jaden,
I was refering to using a pivot alignment system for potting center ball straight shots. I can't imagine this being more effective than straight on aligning.

As for the pivot system for OE and IE that Efren uses, this is a system I can see great value in. I've been playing it a bit the last few days and it has helped with some shots I previously had trouble judging with parallel alignment.

 

[Cornerman]

Hi Jaden,
I was refering to using a pivot alignment system for potting center ball straight shots. I can't imagine this being more effective than straight on aligning..

I think Franscisco must be doing some kind of pivot alignment system for straight in shots. He always starts off aiming off center, then he pivots to the center on his last warm up stroke. You can see him shaking his grip hand sort of locking it into place.

Fred

 

[lewdo26]

I think Franscisco must be doing some kind of pivot alignment system for straight in shots. He always starts off aiming off center, then he pivots to the center on his last warm up stroke. You can see him shaking his grip hand sort of locking it into place.

Fred

I hear he does it so he can see exactly where he'll contact the CB without interference from the cue itself. Purely academic as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DougT]

It's ok, I'm not selling anything

And it's really not that revolutionary, but as far as I'm aware I've added a new and useful twist to an aim system which is similar to Joe Tucker's contact point to contact point system. Based on the same principles anyway.
.

Thanks for the post Colin. A lot of the aiming system treads get into such mudslinging that they are good only for their entertainment value. You've made this enlightening, and interesting. Thanks for putting it out there.
More thanks to Fred and Drivermaker and all others for their helpful insights too. After reading enough of these posts, they start to sink in.
But Colin, your drawings are a big help.
Doug

 

[DougT]

I myself like the contact point to contact point, with feel, and pray.

Too Funny, Jake. Sometimes that's exactly how it seems.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

I wouldn't say that I use this as a system, by any means, but I have noticed this relationship before. I don't know if this is exactly what you're saying, but I've also noticed that, on many shots, if you draw a line from the pocket through the back of the object ball to come up with your "contact point", then draw a line from that same pocket to the cue ball, but not through it - just to the cue ball, that point that you've come to on the cue ball needs to contact the object ball at the point that you came up with by drawing a line from the pocket through to the back of the ball.

Now, I don't use this "system" at all. I've just noticed that relationship between the balls while practicing. Every now and then I might be aware of it, but I certainly don't try to base how I aim on it (especially since that relationship doesn't seem to be there for every single shot).

What you described is a system, and it's more than an aiming system. It's called the triangle system. It was shown to me once and I didn't find it very consistent so I stopped using it. It was taught to me by a good player however.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

I think Franscisco must be doing some kind of pivot alignment system for straight in shots. He always starts off aiming off center, then he pivots to the center on his last warm up stroke. You can see him shaking his grip hand sort of locking it into place.

Fred

He doesn't always do this, I have 5 tapes of him playing. In 4 of them he was lining up straight and going straight thru on nearly all shots. On one tape, which was from years ago when he first came here, he was doing what you described. The tapes with him shooting straight are more recent tapes, dated from '95- present.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Thanks for the post Colin. A lot of the aiming system treads get into such mudslinging that they are good only for their entertainment value. You've made this enlightening, and interesting. Thanks for putting it out there.
More thanks to Fred and Drivermaker and all others for their helpful insights too. After reading enough of these posts, they start to sink in.
But Colin, your drawings are a big help.
Doug

Glad you appreciate the diagrams and discussions Doug. To learn more and share these ideas with others is my goal. Hopefully the diagrams can improve further still as I more of these systems sink in to my own brain

 

[Colin Colenso]

I think Franscisco must be doing some kind of pivot alignment system for straight in shots. He always starts off aiming off center, then he pivots to the center on his last warm up stroke. You can see him shaking his grip hand sort of locking it into place.

Fred

Yes Fred,
I've observed his off center pre-alignment quite a bit. Still not sure exactly what he's doing but it seems similar to the method you described recently.

 

[Bob Jewett]

This is another of the three aims in the HH system.....1/4 CB to Edge of OB....
...

Not quite. Colin illustrated a 60-degree cut. A 1/4 ball hit will cut the ball about 48 degrees (neglecting throw). A 12-degree difference in cut angle is important. If you aim a 60-degree cut with a true 1/4-ball hit, either you have to pour on heavy loads of subconscious compensation or you will miss.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... if you draw a line from the pocket through the back of the object ball to come up with your "contact point", then draw a line from that same pocket to the cue ball, but not through it - just to the cue ball, that point that you've come to on the cue ball needs to contact the object ball at the point that you came up with by drawing a line from the pocket through to the back of the ball.
...

This always makes you hit the ball too full. For thin cuts, you hit about twice as much of the object ball as you need to. This system appears in Hal Mix's book, and it has been debunked several times.

It is one of the worst systems available.

 

[Bob Jewett]

It's ok, I'm not selling anything

And it's really not that revolutionary, but as far as I'm aware I've added a new and useful twist to an aim system which is similar to Joe Tucker's contact point to contact point system. Based on the same principles anyway. ...

A very nice explanation. Do you consciously include compensation for throw? (Throw in the US, not the UK sense.)

 

[BRKNRUN]

Not quite. Colin illustrated a 60-degree cut. A 1/4 ball hit will cut the ball about 48 degrees (neglecting throw). A 12-degree difference in cut angle is important. If you aim a 60-degree cut with a true 1/4-ball hit, either you have to pour on heavy loads of subconscious compensation or you will miss.

I said 1/4 CB to edge of OB......I doubt that produces a 1/4 ball hit......

I think in technical terms it may be more like a (actual) 1/8 hit, but I don't get that technical...

REMEMBER...The HH 3-line system is based on "aim points" ....the actual contact points between CB and OB are not the same place as you are aiming..(most of the time).....

 

[5aheadforpinks]

I have changed my opinion about aiming systems; while they may provide a decent guide, with only this info a newbie would still be lost. With any english shot, how much the cue ball will move is based on the speed. Yet even with this info, a player needs to know how to shoot the cue ball in a straight line; and a player needs to learn how much his cue ball deflects at different speeds and spins.

The cue ball is just a round rock that you push around with a long piece of wood. The physics or aiming is natural, what is not natural is how to completly control the cue ball. Once you develop a consistant hit and feel for the cue ball, and understand how to bend the cue ball along your line of aim with proper speed; everything just falls in place.

I watched an archer shoot a tylanol that was thrown by his wife in the air at over 20 feet with the tip of his arrow. The same guy could also shoot three balloons with one arrow that were set in a jagged down, up, down pattern. He had so much control over the arrow, he knew exactly where the tip was going; which is exactly what we do with the cue ball, the entire cueball is our tip. He got so good with an arrow by practising shooting out the flame of a candle in a pitch black room.

What does this mean?? While you could spend all your time looking at the imaginary lines of where you think the cue ball should go; you could spend your time learning exactly where the cue ball is going. Take out the guess work or the "close" aiming system, and give yourself a better intuitive judgement of what you are doing. The physics are in plain sight, its human error we must try and overcome.