drivermaker
Banned
JoeyInCali said:
I think I have to agree with you on that Joey.
Revolutionary New Aiming System !
- Thread starter Colin Colenso
- Start date
I think I have to agree with you on that Joey.
Devil's Advocate
I disagree with your statement about gun sighting, considering the length
of shot and wind. All these so-called aiming systems are a little bewildering
to me. I mean, I just look at the contact point, consider the type of english
I am using for any adjustment and shoot the ball.
Consider this in regards to your aiming system:
My brother years ago was a World Class Archer. He won many indoor and
outdoor State Championships, and took 11th in the World in Australia when
he was 8 years past his prime. I was out with him at the outdoor Archery
range one day, and he was shooting the Hunter's course, and I watched
him shoot the 80 yard target (a bear) and he put 3 arrows into the small
bullseye, which was the size of a half dollar. Now, did he use IJ, did he aim
off the edge of a cloud in the sky, did he zero in on the shadow of a tree
falling over the target. Considering the shot had arc and distance, the fact
that he could put 3 arrows together within a half dollar, he had a pretty
amazing aiming system, huh? My point being, a person just uses the
objective data they know (hit contact point = pocket), and subjective
reasoning based on their prior experience (inside english holds the object
ball straighter) to make the shot, and per my example stated, they would
aim for the outside of the pocket to make the object ball dead center with
inside english. All the technical jargon regarding aiming systems, to me, just
serves to convolude the whole aiming system issue. I have found that if
you use the KISS method, it will serve your purpose better. I tend to think
of it as a standard way of doing it (contact point) with options (english and
throw). It works quite well for me.
Colin Colenso said:Sure, alining down a gun site doesn't require IJ. Maybe I better close one eye. I'm having problems with working out the line of my dominant eye. Took me 20 minutes of warming up today and still it was on and off a bit.
Give me a try...I'm your open eared disciple
I disagree with your statement about gun sighting, considering the length
of shot and wind. All these so-called aiming systems are a little bewildering
to me. I mean, I just look at the contact point, consider the type of english
I am using for any adjustment and shoot the ball.
Consider this in regards to your aiming system:
My brother years ago was a World Class Archer. He won many indoor and
outdoor State Championships, and took 11th in the World in Australia when
he was 8 years past his prime. I was out with him at the outdoor Archery
range one day, and he was shooting the Hunter's course, and I watched
him shoot the 80 yard target (a bear) and he put 3 arrows into the small
bullseye, which was the size of a half dollar. Now, did he use IJ, did he aim
off the edge of a cloud in the sky, did he zero in on the shadow of a tree
falling over the target. Considering the shot had arc and distance, the fact
that he could put 3 arrows together within a half dollar, he had a pretty
amazing aiming system, huh? My point being, a person just uses the
objective data they know (hit contact point = pocket), and subjective
reasoning based on their prior experience (inside english holds the object
ball straighter) to make the shot, and per my example stated, they would
aim for the outside of the pocket to make the object ball dead center with
inside english. All the technical jargon regarding aiming systems, to me, just
serves to convolude the whole aiming system issue. I have found that if
you use the KISS method, it will serve your purpose better. I tend to think
of it as a standard way of doing it (contact point) with options (english and
throw). It works quite well for me.
drivermaker
Banned
Snapshot9 said:
I agree with you about all the technical jargon, geometric diagrams, and physics that are a part of some of these systems. But, what makes you think that there AREN'T OTHERS out there which are just as simple and possibly more effective? The fact that you didn't mention them only tells me you've never been introduced to these systems or know that they even exist.
Some old dogs are just unwilling to learn new tricks.
BRKNRUN said:I am surprised no one els has mentioned this..Perhaps they have and I just missed it in my "catch up" of this thread...but....did you notice how the green line shows a center CB to 1/4 OB aim alingment? ...I have heard that some guy came up with a system based on that type of aiming somewhere....
Colin...If you did do that on purpose, very nice job of showing how an alingment point and a actual contact point could be two different things.....You may have been the first person to create a graphic that shows an easily understandable graphic of the HH system....Now delete it before the whole world figures out how easy it really is to pocket balls.......now if only I had a stroke to go with the alignment....
haha...I like the graphic too. A much better way to perceive things.
That green line wasn't placed at 1/4OB on purpose, I just placed it in the center of the CB path which was created by the computer game.
This would move according to the angle of the OB to the pocket.
I guessed the path that looked right on the computer game. It took me a couple of goes to get an image where all the lines fell into place in a way that looked accurate.
btw: When I align, I actually visualize the yellow line, but have my cue lined up to center OB, making the lines parallel. This may not be ideal. It takes a bit of judgement. Some methods like Fred's and Jeff's that align directly with a part of the cue may have an advantage.
There may be more now than there was before, or maybe the discussions were kept within certain circles. Also with the internet these days there is more opportunity for information to spread.onepocketchump said:
I know when I was learning 18 years ago, I'd read anything I could get my hands on about the game. What I did read was pretty basic stuff. Jimmy White's Masterclass was about the only book I read that had a few interesting insights into the physics. Still, it was as country mile behind Robert Byrne's Advanced Techniques in Pool and Billiards which I picked up around the same time.
Fred,Cornerman said:
I think I have managed to incorporate your system into my diagram. Take a look and see.
I'm hazarding a guess at this stage, that the CB point you are aiming at falls about halfway between the center of the OB and the point CB2 I drew which is the opposite point of the contact point.
Now for this to work you'll need a standard bridge length axis, not sure of the ideal length at this stage or if it should change according to angles and length of shot.
Anyway, in this diagram, the red line is where you would place your cue and align to the contact point on the OB, then you would pivot the cue to the green line, through the center of the OB.
Then if you wished you could pivot as you wished for english. Does this all look and sound right?
Attachments
Colin Colenso said:
This is another of the three aims in the HH system.....1/4 CB to Edge of OB....
What I do to help me line this up is, just as you have the cue stick placed center ball, look down the right edge of the shaft. Just outside that will be 1/4 CB lined up with the edge of the OB....
KEEP IN MIND: since the balls are round, this is an illousionary process...If you move the cb a little the aligment image is the same but since the ball is round you will be lining up to a "new" edge.....(hopefully that makes sense)...The end result is the same "actual contact" that you have shown....
Remember these three "Aims"
center CB to 1/4 OB
center CB to edge OB
1/4 CB to edge OB
Obviously if its straight in its center to center, and thin cuts I will use a shis kebob meithod, but for a "majority" of shots your contact points will reveal one of the three "aims" above...
The 3D graphic are what I think show this really well.
Colin Colenso said:
Both of these visuals are pretty good, Colin. If you can actually draw the cuestick and bridge hand, then I'd never have to write another description.
And you've illustrated the difficulty in the ghost ball system. The ghost ball target in space is smaller than the cueball. The center of the ghost ball, IMO, never seems to "look" right. There's a lot of visual and optical things going on that even on a 3D still graphic, I personally think it's difficult to "see." So, finite points are the way for me.
Now that someone has mentioned it, In all of your graphics, how close are each to center to edge, small ball to center, and small ball to edge Houle alignments? They all look pretty close. Close enough that you'd make any shot on the table. You also show one that looks like 1/8th to edge, which is sort of a "next step" after the beginner course of Houle alignments.
Fred
Having never studied the world of aiming systems, I am amazed at what info is out there. I have tried a little of some systems, only to get frustrated. I would call my aiming 100% feel? intuiton? experience? whatever. Actually the first person to ever teach me to aim off center cue ball shots explained it like this. He gets behind every shot, sees the angle, aims the shot as though centerball was to be used, and when he shoots he then applies whatever spin he feels is needed to get wherever he wants to go. He told me this was how he played because most of his action was in bar rooms and when people see you using all kinds of spin, they feel somethings up. He also did'nt want to give away how certain shots were being cued. I still use this when I'm feeling out of kilter, and it seems to get me back in stroke on some shots. The only time this did'nt work for me is when I switched to a Predator shaft. Assuming the lack of throw was to blame.
When I started learning 1-pocket I did make myself learn a few diamond/kick systems. This scientific study of the diamonds has made HUGE leaps in my game......Gerry
When I started learning 1-pocket I did make myself learn a few diamond/kick systems. This scientific study of the diamonds has made HUGE leaps in my game......Gerry
Gerry said:Roger that Fred!......So are you saying I have been using systems, yet too ignorant to realize it?!........Thanx....Gerry
I guess Fred is implying that.
Who would have known there's a bunch of geeks like us standardizing a language and systematizing descriptions of all those weird little things pub players are messing around with
Good luck to you Gerry, hope ur pickin' up a few handy tips!
Me too, but I'm trying to blend in with the local savagesGerry said:
drivermaker
Banned
ScottR said:
No...it's different. I think Fred has changed some ingredients around and came up with his own recipe. He's talking "contact points" and I'm more interested in "aiming points". There's a big difference...but it at least gets Colin outta my hair.
I wouldn't say that I use this as a system, by any means, but I have noticed this relationship before. I don't know if this is exactly what you're saying, but I've also noticed that, on many shots, if you draw a line from the pocket through the back of the object ball to come up with your "contact point", then draw a line from that same pocket to the cue ball, but not through it - just to the cue ball, that point that you've come to on the cue ball needs to contact the object ball at the point that you came up with by drawing a line from the pocket through to the back of the ball.
Now, I don't use this "system" at all. I've just noticed that relationship between the balls while practicing. Every now and then I might be aware of it, but I certainly don't try to base how I aim on it (especially since that relationship doesn't seem to be there for every single shot).
Now, I don't use this "system" at all. I've just noticed that relationship between the balls while practicing. Every now and then I might be aware of it, but I certainly don't try to base how I aim on it (especially since that relationship doesn't seem to be there for every single shot).
drivermaker
Banned
Jimmy M. said:
What part of the pocket are you drawing the line from...and are you drawing your line from the same part of the pocket to CB as OB. Remember, all OB's can't be shot at the center of the pocket from a shallow angle with balls close to a rail. You actually have to aim at a pocket facing, otherwise you'll be hitting a rail short. Same thing with a CB. Sounds flawed to me.
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Colin Colenso said:Thanks Fred,
I'm taking out my compass and rulers now to see what I missed the first time
What really makes it hard to fathom sometimes with these aiming systems, is that even on the basic straight shot where we know exactly what to align to what, it can still be a hell of a task to deliver the CB to the right spot.
Hard to imagine how a pivot system could improve upon this. But I'll keep an open mind.
I have to say first that Efren uses the pivot system, that in itself should tell you something. When he explained it to me it was after his shooting a dead straight shot with 2 tips of right and 2 tips of follow, in other words a dramaticly two o'clock shot. He did it by aiming straight to center on the OB and pivoting for the spin leaving his bridge in the exact same position as he stroked through the ball.
I didn't believe that that was what he was doing or that it would work for every shot. In fact I didn't even try it to see if it would work until three years later when Chip Klein was talking about it down in San Diego so I thought I would try it. Sure enough it works.
The 1/4 ball and what not is just another way to find the aim point for the proper contact points. If you think about the curve of the CB and the OB as they are coming together from different angles you;ll realize that there is a specific amount of off aim depending on the angle of the shot. Once you understand that you still have to be able to accurately determine the angle of the cut to be able to find the right aim point.
I personally feel the ghost ball technique is the easiest or I just use one of the techniques to get on aim and then just trust my feel for each shot after I get on using an aiming technique.
That works fine but you still have to know the technique for when you get off and can't figure out how to fix it.
Once you have the proper aimpoint it's just a matter of pivoting for the right English, and stroking straight through the shot at the right speed. Easy right? Just run out and you'll be good.
