Richard Black Cues

[TheBook]

HIT/PLAY is waaaay too subjective for serious debate.


Five cues that might be more consistant are:

SEARING

SOUTHWEST

TASCERALLA

SCRUGGS

MOTTEY

COG

JOSEY

JUDD

MCDANIEL

BRICK

TAD

GINA

MCWORTER

YOUNG

STROUD

Bottom line is that, IMO, some RB'S are very good (esp. piltd. iv. jt.) they are not consistant.

Is this pick any 5?

 

[gforces1911]

Richard Black

Funny! I was going to point out that exact same thing in an earlier post but, to be honest, that is minor compared to some of the attrocities he has let leave his shop before.

I have seen diamonds that are so far off center, they almost look like squares leaning over. And as I stated earlier, how could any respected cuemaker put notched diamonds in his cues and forget to notch one or two sides?!?!?!

As far as naming five cues that play better:
Southwest
Bender
Mottey
White
Tascarella
Herceck
Bluegrass
Scruggs
Searing
...and a slew of others.

I have a 4 point Richard Black that I would never sell. It plays great. I can't speak to the consistency from one RB cue to the next in terms of playability. In fact, I don't think I could do that for any cuemaker.

Playability in itself is completely subjective. Some people just don't like a particular maker. I am not sure how I would begin to compare my bluegrass to my black in terms of playability. They are two different genres and two different theories on cue hit/construction.

I believe that a lot of people can say that they hit with "X" cue and that they did not like it. I don't think that you can extrapolate to all of the makers cues though. I have a honda that I bought brand new- the fit and finish are poor- but I don't say all hondas are bad based on my car's flaw.

 

[cgriffin5]

Here are some examples of the quality you guys are talking about in RB cues. You can see that the inlays are not quite centered. Even though I really like the overal design of the cue and if I had the $$ this cue would be in my collection for sure.

To me that is unnaceptable. A few years ago my friend bought a RB directly from him and when he received it the silver rings had already popped, the shafts didnt match flush to the cue, and the veneers were all fuzzy and didnt match. I do not think he takes much pride in his work if he lets cues like that out of his shop.

 

[SpiderWeb]

Black cues

I lived in Houston in the 80's me and my room mates bought 10 to 12 cues from him, and went to his shop off Kirby many times. The cues he make in the morning may be alright but I would hate to have one that he worked on in the afternoon. I am surprised that he hasnt had a serious accident 2working around the machinery in the pm.

 

[Dak21st]

I lived in Houston in the 80's me and my room mates bought 10 to 12 cues from him, and went to his shop off Kirby many times. The cues he make in the morning may be alright but I would hate to have one that he worked on in the afternoon. I am surprised that he hasnt had a serious accident 2working around the machinery in the pm.

Alot to be said for the "three martini lunch".

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

And... I have recently seen some Tascarella photos... the veneer work looks a lot like Richard Black's... I fact, I would not be able to tell the difference... And... the inlay work was not the greatest.

NOW IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO GET REAL. LIKE BOGEY SAID THIS IS ONE OF THE DUMBEST POSTS I'VE READ ON AZ SO FAR. YOU'RE COMPARING A CUEMAKER WITH A 3 MONTH WAIT, TO ONE WITH OVER A FIVE YEAR WAIT.

YES, I HAVE SEEN TASCARELLAS WHERE THEY WERE NOT 100% PERFECT, I WON'T ARGUE THAT. I'VE SEEN SZAMBOTIS THAT WEREN'T PERFECT. BUT, RICHARDS CUES ARE SUB PAR, I'VE NEVER SEEN A SUB PAR TASCARELLA. THERE ARE SOME EARLY TASCARELLAS WHERE THE VENEER WORK ISN'T THE GREATEST, BUT HIS VENEER WORK FOR THE LAST 25 OR SO YEARS IS, AMONG THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS. I HAD A FRIEND THAT HAD A SPLIT DIAMOND RICHARD BLACK, THAT WHEN HE SENT IT TO GET REFINISHED IT TURNED OUT THE THREE PIECE DIAMONDS WERE ONE PIECE DIAMONDS WITH BLACK MARKER OR EPOXY ON THEM TO MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE THREE PIECES. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE. IF YOU WANT ME TO KEEP GOING WITH STORIES I WILL, BUT I WOULD PREFER NOT TO.

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT RICHARDS CUES, I'M STILL NOT SURE WHY YOU CHOSE TO BRING PETE'S CUES INTO THIS, UNLESS OF COURSE YOU WERE TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO A BIG ARGUMENT.

 

[buddha162]

I HAD A FRIEND THAT HAD A SPLIT DIAMOND RICHARD BLACK, THAT WHEN HE SENT IT TO GET REFINISHED IT TURNED OUT THE THREE PIECE DIAMONDS WERE ONE PIECE DIAMONDS WITH BLACK MARKER OR EPOXY ON THEM TO MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE THREE PIECES.

Even with my low opinion of RB this is ridiculous, and borders on fraud.

-Roger

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Even with my low opinion of RB this is ridiculous, and borders on fraud.

-Roger

ARE YOU SAYING THAT I MADE IT UP?

 

[buddha162]

ARE YOU SAYING THAT I MADE IT UP?

No, I'm saying that what RB did with that supposed "three-piece diamond" borders on fraud. I would completely flip out if it were my cue.

I agree with everything you've said thus far, and admire your restraint on the subject.

-Roger

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

No, I'm saying that what RB did with that supposed "three-piece diamond" borders on fraud. I would completely flip out if it were my cue.

I agree with everything you've said thus far, and admire your restraint on the subject.

-Roger

NO PROBLEM ROGER, I WAS JUST MAKING SURE.

IT'S NOT EASY FOR ME TO BE RESTRAINED, BUT RICHARD HAS PUT HIS TIME IN AND I FEELHE STILL DESERVES SOME RESPECT. I WILL SAY THAT WHEN I FIRST GOT INTO CUSTOM CUES(I WAS ABOUT 20) RICHARD WAS THE ONLY CUEMAKER THAT REALLY TOOK ME SERIOUSLY,BECAUSE OF MY AGE,I GUESS. HE SAT DOWN WITH ME AND TOOK MY CUSTOM ORDER, WHERE MOST OF THE OTHER CM'S JUST FELT I WAS WASTING THEIR TIME. THAT 10 MINUTES HE SPENT WITH ME IS WHAT MADE ME A RICHARD BLACK COLLECTOR. I'VE ALSO HAD SOME NEGATIVE EXPERIANCES WITH RICHARD, WHICH IS WHY I WILL NO LONGER BUY ANY OF HIS CUES.

 

[cgriffin5]

No, I'm saying that what RB did with that supposed "three-piece diamond" borders on fraud. I would completely flip out if it were my cue.

I agree with everything you've said thus far, and admire your restraint on the subject.

-Roger

I couldnt agree more. That is completely morally wrong. I no longer have respect for him as a cuemaker but more importantly as a person.

 

[cornerstone]

look at this!!

here is a stunning new work from richard ! amazing and even has veneeres on thse scallops!! this is why he is one of my favroite and a class act for a person!!there are few that can pull this off and fewer who would try!

 

[BillYards]

I can't answer to FNL's claims of fake inlays.... all I know are the cues I have seen and owned. I would certainly be interested to see any photos of any shoddy work that anyone has. Please PM me if you have any.

I am a Richard Black fan and not yet a Tascarella fan. So what? Maybe I will be in the future... maybe not. I can say the same about most other cuemakers too... Big whoop!

Cornerstone has a large financial interest in RB's popularity, but he also knows quality when he sees it. I agree with him.

Not sure why you are so anti-RB... My dealings with him have been great and I would recommend his cues to anyone.

 

[pharaoh68]

I would love to see a high-rez close-up of that cue and see how amazing his work really is. I'd put even money on the fact that some of those inlays, windows, or veneers are just the littlest bit off.

 

[skins]

i was going to stay out of this as Marcus "tried" but i have to say some things. to me there is NO perfect cue not even with the use of cnc. that being said the design work that Richard puts into some of his cues can be nightmare to do for most cue makers in anything perfectly let alone a cylinder 1 to 1.5 in in diameter. in many cases i can see it requiring many "recuts" just to get the design to look right and any one of those can throw off the design just a hair which in most cases is neglegable in the finnished product. i'd like to see some out there ask a maker they know to copy some of his work and you would see you'ld have to pay a fortune, if you could get them to do it period. i'm not saying cue makers don't make mistakes or let cues out of their shops that are somewhat below what "you" might think would come out of their shop. i'm saying Richard is a master cue maker and has payed his dues and i think makes a great cue, reguardless what a few would say, and i'm sure my other Black would welcome company anytime. mho

 

[pharaoh68]

...the design work that Richard puts into some of his cues can be nightmare to do for most cue makers in anything perfectly let alone a cylinder 1 to 1.5 in in diameter.

So in other words, you're saying it is ok to sacrifice quality for the sake of design? As long as a cuemaker is attempting to do something new or unique, its ok for the finished product to look bad? With all due respect skins, I have to disagree. Especially if I were a customer paying money for the cue.

...i'm saying Richard is a master cue maker and has payed his dues and i think makes a great cue, reguardless what a few would say, and i'm sure my other Black would welcome company anytime. mho

And what is this crap about paying his dues??? Everyone says it about so many cuemakers. What dues has he paid? Every time the man's name is mentioned in these forums, a huge debate follows in which many who feel like myself will go on record saying his work is lackluster at times. So because he's paid his dues, this is ok?

 

[BillYards]

I would love to see a high-rez close-up of that cue and see how amazing his work really is. I'd put even money on the fact that some of those inlays, windows, or veneers are just the littlest bit off.

I would like to see more photos of that cue also... I think this work of art... sorry, this CUE can stand up to close scrutiny.

And what is the price on that cue? Just want to compare to what you get from other makers.

 

[skins]

So in other words, you're saying it is ok to sacrifice quality for the sake of design? As long as a cuemaker is attempting to do something new or unique, its ok for the finished product to look bad? With all due respect skins, I have to disagree. Especially if I were a customer paying money for the cue.
you can disagree all you want but that doesn't make your "opinion" any more valid than any others. you have yours i have mine that's what makes people different. you don't have to but his cues.

And what is this crap about paying his dues??? Everyone says it about so many cuemakers. What dues has he paid? Every time the man's name is mentioned in these forums, a huge debate follows in which many who feel like myself will go on record saying his work is lackluster at times. So because he's paid his dues, this is ok?

if you don't understand what paying your dues is i can't help you on that. do you think that everyone who has bought a cue from him posts on this site? i bet not even 10 percent of his customers even know about this site. i know many people, that wouldn't bother to post here, that have or had RB's cues and they loved them. i've owned many cues and most makers have slight imperfections in some cues and even major in some others that doesn't say the cue maker as a whole is a bad cue maker. i've always said if you have a problem with a cue you purchased from a maker and have an issue it's up to you to make that issue known. all the makers i've dealt with would and have corrected them and if they don't don't buy from them anymore. don't you think if his work was so bad he would have no customers? his cues sell like hot cakes to top collectors. anyway everyone has an opinion and i've stated mine. i leave it at that and the rest to fight about it.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

i've always said if you have a problem with a cue you purchased from a maker and have an issue it's up to you to make that issue known. all the makers i've dealt with would and have corrected them and if they don't don't buy from them anymore.

don't you think if his work was so bad he would have no customers?

his cues sell like hot cakes to top collectors.

anyway everyone has an opinion and i've stated mine. i leave it at that and the rest to fight about it.

TIM,
THE FIRST STATEMENT IS TRUE, AND THERE IN LIES THE PROBLEM. I HAD A BIG SITUATION THAT I WAS TOLD FLAT OUT WOULD NOT BE RECTIFIED(THE REASON WHY I NO LONGER BUY THE CUES)

2) HOW MANY CUSTOMERS DOES HE REALLY HAVE? LAST I HEARD, HE'S GOT A 3 MONTH WAIT. AND FOR YEARS RICHARD SWORE HE WOULDN'T EVER HAVE A DEALER, NOW, THATS WHERE MOST OF HIS CUES GO.

3) HIS ARTISTIC CUES ARE VERY CREATIVE, BUT THAT IS ONLY A SMALL SECTION OF COLLECTORS THAT BUY THOSE CUES.

TIM, YOU KNOW I APPRECIATE YOUR OPINION, AND RESPECT IT, BUT I HAD TO DISAGREE WITH A FEW OF YOUR STATEMENTS. THIS IS JUST MY 2 CENTS, THERE ARE ALOT OF GYS THAT HAVE BEEN IN THIS GAME LONGER THAN ME.

 

[pharaoh68]

if you don't understand what paying your dues is i can't help you on that. do you think that everyone who has bought a cue from him posts on this site? i bet not even 10 percent of his customers even know about this site. i know many people, that wouldn't bother to post here, that have or had RB's cues and they loved them. i've owned many cues and most makers have slight imperfections in some cues and even major in some others that doesn't say the cue maker as a whole is a bad cue maker. i've always said if you have a problem with a cue you purchased from a maker and have an issue it's up to you to make that issue known. all the makers i've dealt with would and have corrected them and if they don't don't buy from them anymore. don't you think if his work was so bad he would have no customers? his cues sell like hot cakes to top collectors. anyway everyone has an opinion and i've stated mine. i leave it at that and the rest to fight about it.

You see, there is a major problem with this "debate" and it is this:
Two people (or in this case two groups of people) are separated by two contrasting opinions. One side believes that the work of Richard Black is excellent. The other side believes that it is way overrated. The primary difference between these two schools of thought is that the opposition is not basing their beliefs solely on passion for or against Richard but on subjective looks at his mistakes and negative feedback from the hit of his cues (at least in my case).


Stating that lots of collectors buy his cues means nothing. I could care less what a collector buys AND those that do buy his cues generally buy the ones of an artistic nature which, as I mentioned earlier, get more attention to detail than his normal orders.

I know what paying your dues is all about. What I meant was, how has Richard paid his dues? What has he done or been through that now entitles him to receive accolades and acclaim when he is still (notice use of the word STILL) allowing substandard cues with visible flaws to leave his shop??? Do you seriously think that this is acceptable and that he is entitled to because he paid his dues??