Richard Black Cues

[Matt_24]

Tell me about Richard Black cues. I know he has been making cues an awful long time.

When I look at photos of his cues, they look quite immaculate. Even the simple four point cues with perhaps a window in the butt or a simple variation on this design all look great.

How come they don't go for the type of Monday as perhaps a TAD or Ginacue? A simple four point Gina (if there is such a thing) would go for at least $3000 I suspect. You can find simple four point Black's for half that or less. My question is why?

I've heard some people rave over his cues. Others have questioned the quality of his craftsmanship. Why, why, and why?

Just curious, because I was on his website and thought all of his cues looked gorgeous. Are these perhaps an undervalued cue at this point?

BTW, I sure do appreciate all of the knowledgeable collectors/dealers who regularly contribute to these forums. The information you provide is thoroughly appreciated. I'm looking forward to your thoughts on this subject.

 

[BillYards]

It is a fickle market....

 

[ScottR]

It's funny because 1pRoscoe and I were just talking about this yesterday. I really like Richard's work and still have a cue he made for me in 1980. It is in the top 3 hitting cues that I own. Other people just hate his cues and the way they play. "Hit" is so subjective, who knows?

I think part of the impressions about build quality come from the fact that Richard does a lot of work by hand and doesn't cover up minor imperfections. If you look at the "gunsight" inlay in this pic of the sleeve of my cue, you see that the ivory line is not perfectly centered on the dot. Even though this was built pre-CNC, it still bugs the crap out of some people. Not me. The other three are perfect and everything else (veneers, points, forearm gunsight inlays, etc.) are dead nuts on. And the piloted ivory joint has played great for 26 years.

To top it off, I met Richard in person for the first time at Valley Forge this year and he remembered the cue (described it to me when I told him my name) and we had a great conversation.

 

[titlistsucker]

i think the price of a Richard Black being less than the others u mentioned may also be tied to the delivery time. RB can deliver a cue to u in 3-6 mths. Tas has a long waiting list and making time.. likewise like Searings etc...all these add to the higher price in the aftermarket when ppl rather not wait..

Obviously if a cuemaker makes 150 cues a year, his cue scarcity and hence price would be less than say Barry where less than 50 cues leave the shop per year.. and hardly to the open market...

TAD cues are fuelled by Japanese (buy Japan) mentality and is strong in the JPN and also Taiwan market... thats why they are more expensive..

i had ard 8 RB cues at one point and i would go to say that his cues are slightly soft on the hit and the point work is less even and impressive than say Scruggs, or Mottey. But RB scores on innovativeness and design and i do believe his cues now are undervalued... i personally think the pre 80s cues hit better...(maybe i like the cool szambotish stitching keke)

 

[BillYards]

True, RB's cues do have a soft hit, but that is what gives them the great feel... At least I love that type of hit.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

This Thread Could Open A Big Can Of Worms. I Gotta Stay Out Of This, But I'm Certainly Interested To Hear What People Have To Say.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I was told by a cue dealer RB learned cuemaking from Bob Meucci.
I know a local player who has an anniversary RB cue. Very elaborate cue.

 

[pharaoh68]

This Thread Could Open A Big Can Of Worms. I Gotta Stay Out Of This, But I'm Certainly Interested To Hear What People Have To Say.

Sounds to me like someone is harboring some negative opinions of Richard Black!

If not, I'll be the first on the record to say that I do NOT like Richard Black cues.

Now, for the record, I am not saying he is a bad cuemaker and people should never buy his cues. I am simply stating that I don't like his cues. I need to be clear on this because people often misinterpret what is written plainly in front of them.

Why? Well, I've seen a bunch and blayed with a bunch. The hit was largely inconsistent. Most were soft (too soft for me) but some of them felt almost as if they were hollow. And in certain cues, his inlays were a bit off (gaps, poorly aligned). I was surprised because he does some excellent "artistic cues". I call them that ebcause they seem to be more about looks than play. Most of them look like they shouldn't be played with at all.

But the players cues and lower end cues that I've seen were just unimpressive. So I don't hold them in high regard as some people do but that's just my take. Now, go ahead. Everyone let me have it!!!

 

[cgriffin5]

Sounds to me like someone is harboring some negative opinions of Richard Black!

If not, I'll be the first on the record to say that I do NOT like Richard Black cues.

Now, for the record, I am not saying he is a bad cuemaker and people should never buy his cues. I am simply stating that I don't like his cues. I need to be clear on this because people often misinterpret what is written plainly in front of them.

Why? Well, I've seen a bunch and blayed with a bunch. The hit was largely inconsistent. Most were soft (too soft for me) but some of them felt almost as if they were hollow. And in certain cues, his inlays were a bit off (gaps, poorly aligned). I was surprised because he does some excellent "artistic cues". I call them that ebcause they seem to be more about looks than play. Most of them look like they shouldn't be played with at all.

But the players cues and lower end cues that I've seen were just unimpressive. So I don't hold them in high regard as some people do but that's just my take. Now, go ahead. Everyone let me have it!!!

I couldnt agree more. He has some truely awesome designs but I really do not care for the way they play. I have played with 6 different Blacks and I have yet to play with one that I liked.

 

[WuClan]

My experience with Richard Black's cues have also been mixed. Some have hit better than others. His older cues were made with Balabushka specifications. These are the cues I prefer to play with. My current player is below. The shafts are light (3.6ozs) but feel dense and the butt has an old school taper (thicker in the rear). The inlays aren't the sharpest but for a cue made late 70's early 80's it is warp free.

 

[BillYards]

This Thread Could Open A Big Can Of Worms. I Gotta Stay Out Of This, But I'm Certainly Interested To Hear What People Have To Say.

F-N-L:

C'mon! Let us RB fans have it! We can take it!

I know that his cues are not for everyone. The craftsmanship is quite fine, even if it doesn't look stamped out of a machine.

I understand what people are saying about the hit being soft, but I think that gives me more feel and cueball control. It also just gives me a lot of pleasure to hit balls with one.

And, as I stated before... all 4 of the RB cues I owned had the same exact hit. The craftsmanship was not perfect, but I certainly had to look hard to find any defects, and I never found any critial defects except on one cue that I suspect had been abused and repaired before I saw it.

I think it takes time to learn to love the feel of the hit of his cues... everybody seems to be going for really stiff shafts, buying Predator shafts, etc... And they have gone so far to the other side... hitting with rigid shafts, that they find it difficult to appreciate the responsive feel of a Black cue.

There is just no better enjoyment than stroking a long draw shot with a RB cue and feeling that cueball sitting on the end of the shaft... just for a split second. I have not felt many cues that feel like that.

 

[ScottR]

Now, for the record, I am not saying he is a bad cuemaker and people should never buy his cues. I am simply stating that I don't like his cues. I need to be clear on this because people often misinterpret what is written plainly in front of them.

........ So I don't hold them in high regard as some people do but that's just my take. Now, go ahead. Everyone let me have it!!!

Ok, you SUCK!!

Just kidding!

 

[ScottR]

.....
There is just no better enjoyment than stroking a long draw shot with a RB cue and feeling that cueball sitting on the end of the shaft... just for a split second. I have not felt many cues that feel like that.

Ooooo, I love it when you talk like this . . . .

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

F-N-L:

C'mon! Let us RB fans have it! We can take it!

I WON'T DO THAT IN A PUBLIC FORUM. MR. BLACK HAS EARNED RESPECT THROUGH HIS YEARS, AND I WILL GIVE HIM THAT.

I WILL LET THE OTHERS HERE SPEAK THEIR PEACE, I'M SURE THEY WILL GO OVER MANY OF THE THINGS IN MY HEAD.

 

[cuenut]

I personally would not seek out a RB for my personal collection, but wouldn't shrug off a deal if one were to be had. I have seen cues from various time periods, as well as plain and ultra-fancy and have not been impressed with the inlay precision compared to others mentioned already in this thread. I also agree with a previous poster who stated that the hit was inconsistent from cue to cue. But this could be a sign of experimentation by someone trying to get that extra little bit of edge. My bottom line on his cues is: they are really good cues, but not great cues.

 

[pharaoh68]

Ok, you SUCK!!

Just kidding!

The funny thing is, I've made comments about every cuemaker under the sun on this site. That's what its for. Sharing opinions. Well, one cuemaker read something that I wrote, misinterpreted it, and now he hates me.

It just goes to show you can please everybody!

 

[Hidy Ho]

I hope to comment on this after my very first Richard Black arrives next week.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

I hope to comment on this after my very first Richard Black arrives next week.

I'M SURE YOU KNOW THIS ALREADY, BUT MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS STRAIGHT.

 

[jhendri2]

I love my Richard Black. I think it plays great. Based on the one I own I would recommend him to anyone.

Jim

 

[X Breaker]

A friend showed me a new Richard Black he just purchased in the Derby. It was a "box" cue and the work was just awesome. That cue was simply a classic beauty. I cannot remember any misalignment. All I can remember was "wow!!!"

I have had some Black in the past. Personally, I do not enjoy to hit with a thick butt, and I like ebony forearm rather than maple, and I also like a heavy shaft...so my opinion of the hit of the Black I have tried and owned in the past cannot be objective. They were all classic hoppe style Blacks.

I think the "fashion" of having a stiff hitting shaft or a low deflection shaft has caused a lot of players to stay away from an old school cue such as a Black.

I have a lot of respect for what Richard Black has done in the past, and his creativity is certainly something which deserves a lot of credit.

Pool players and collectors like to listen to what others say about a cue before they buy, that may be, in my opinion, why Black does not have as high a resale value as a Mottey, or a Gina.

Besides, the way a cue maker interacts with a customer is very important. I think Gina cues are great, but I also think his customer service and presentation is top notch, which has contributed greatly to his success.

I think if Mr. Black would spend more time to react with cue buyers like what he did in VF, he will see more and more positive feedback on his cues. If he pays more attention to minor details, the value of his cues should go up in the near future.

In my book, Mr. Black is a master cue maker who is capable of building master piece. I would not say he is underrated, but I think he can achieve more fame and respect.

Richard