Right thought process? 8-ball layout, APA

thyme3421

thyme3421

Playing since 1.1.05..ish
Silver Member
Did I do the right thing here? 8-ball match, hill-hill, the usual...

You're Solids... there's not a way to make the 14 in the corner without fouling.

Rather than mess with the cluster, I decided to give up ball in hand, but I moved the 8 closer to a pocket so I had an easier shot after I eventually put the 3 down.
Is this a good thought process, or am I creating a snowball for an avalanche?

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I like it... I think I would have done pretty much the same thing, except maybe rolled the eight closer to the upper right corner, so that missing shape on it is almost impossible.
 
okinawa77 said:
Here is another possible safety.

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Because if you gave me ball in hand, I might play this:

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You're correct, although it might take a couple of ball in hands to get the 14 ball into the perfect position to use as a sheild before pocketing the solid ball.
 
I hate it. 1st shot, lag the 8 ball as close as possible to the top corner pocket, where you have to make it on your next shot. Freeze the cue ball on the top/long rail. He has to let you out. Game over.
 
hemicudas said:
I hate it. 1st shot, lag the 8 ball as close as possible to the top corner pocket, where you have to make it on your next shot. Freeze the cue ball on the top/long rail. He has to let you out. Game over.
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Am i missing something here? Are you saying that you would give up ball in hand and set the eight ball up where no position would be needed to pocket it? If thats the case then I would pocket the solid and stripe in the same pocket ( easy to do from the way they are laying ) and take the shot on the eight from there.
 
dabarbr said:
Am i missing something here? Are you saying that you would give up ball in hand and set the eight ball up where no position would be needed to pocket it? If thats the case then I would pocket the solid and stripe in the same pocket ( easy to do from the way they are laying ) and take the shot on the eight from there.
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The only thing I think you are missing, dabarbr, is how damn tough it is to pocket both those balls in one shot. You would have to draw the hell out of the cue ball to put enough force follow on the 14 and hit it super straight to pocket both balls. If we are ever in the same spot together you can get even money on the shot all day. Problem is we would never agree on how far apart the 3 & 14 are.
 
That safety actually came up

okinawa77 said:
Here is another possible safety.

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--snip--
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I ended up playing this safety later on in the match, I was much closer to the cluster when I played it though...

Looking back on it, I was thinking playing the same shot, only hit the closer side of the same pocket... (Page 2 on the Quoted table) so it would bounce out and stop right in front of the side pocket... instead of what it did.
 
hemicudas said:
The only thing I think you are missing, dabarbr, is how damn tough it is to pocket both those balls in one shot. You would have to draw the hell out of the cue ball to put enough force follow on the 14 and hit it super straight to pocket both balls. If we are ever in the same spot together you can get even money on the shot all day. Problem is we would never agree on how far apart the 3 & 14 are.
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I think I would prefer to follow the cue ball into the stripe instead of draw on the cue ball. Both ways will work but the follow from this position for me is 100%.
 
dabarbr said:
I think I would prefer to follow the cue ball into the stripe instead of draw on the cue ball. Both ways will work but the follow from this position for me is 100%.
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100%??? Dabarbr??? Even tougher force following the cue ball that straight but it's fine with me. 100%??? Never miss it??? Yea OK. good luck.
 
So leaving the balls together are key. Moving the 8 closer to a pocket a huge bonus. We know your first shot, lets see what he did to you.
 
hemicudas said:
100%??? Dabarbr??? Even tougher force following the cue ball that straight but it's fine with me. 100%??? Never miss it??? Yea OK. good luck.
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No force follow is needed for this. Just place the cue ball at the correct distance from the stripe so that it collects enough momentum to gently go foward after striking the stripe ball.
I set this up for my my wife that is a level 3 APA and she did it four of five. I would only do this if the eight was an easy shot because the cue ball would be on the rail. And yes 100% for me.
 
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dabarbr said:
No force follow is needed for this. Just place the cue ball at the correct distance from the stripe so that it collects enough momentum to gently go foward after striking the stripe ball.
I set this up for my my wife that is a level 3 APA and she did it four of five. I would only do this if the eight was an easy shot because the cue ball would be on the rail. And yes 100% for me.
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I must agree that this is a difficult shot. It is really hard to read this on the computer and I really enjoy, and am good at these shots, But what about your shot on the 8 ball. After performing your first great shot do you really want to try shooting the 8 from the bottom rail? I think that a safety is much easier than performing these two shots in a row.
 
SoundWaves said:
I must agree that this is a difficult shot. It is really hard to read this on the computer and I really enjoy, and am good at these shots, But what about your shot on the 8 ball. After performing your first great shot do you really want to try shooting the 8 from the bottom rail? I think that a safety is much easier than performing these two shots in a row.
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This response was in reference to Hemi's decision to position the eight ball up by the top corner pocket that would be an easy shot to make even from the rail. If the eight is not in a good spot I would safe until I could pocket the solid ball and make sure I could block the eight with my ball.

The shot to pocket the two ball is very easy and actually it's hard for it not to happen. Try it. Line them up straight in and bring the cue ball back about 15 inches and just roll it to the combo. No power needed, just natural pocket speed.

The solid ball cannot afford to give up ball in hand! An attempt must be made to hit it softly.
 
The rest of the game

SoundWaves said:
So leaving the balls together are key. Moving the 8 closer to a pocket a huge bonus. We know your first shot, lets see what he did to you.
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2 pages to the cuetable... He knocked in the 3 with the 14 and left me on the rail... so I attempted the 8 in the corner, missed but speed put the CB on the rail (Page 1)... It's APA, so he returned with a hit and hope, Page 2 (I would have kicked, but that's me)

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From the diagram, you could actually make the 3. I am assuming you could not, but could legally contact it. In which case, I probably would have played this and forced my opponent to make a kick that should be a sell out if not hit perfectly.
 
iba7467 said:

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From the diagram, you could actually make the 3. I am assuming you could not, but could legally contact it. In which case, I probably would have played this and forced my opponent to make a kick that should be a sell out if not hit perfectly.
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BY FAR this is the correct play. You're simply not supposed to win if you give up BIH and park the 8-ball ANYWHERE. All you have to do in this shot is catch that corner-pocket point and the cueball is going to dart behind that 3-ball. Just make sure you don't give it the speed to scratch (which is easy) and you have a GREAT hook. You may not be able to get out in the next inning (since the balls will be tied-up) but you will likely have BIH and enough room to set-up the knock-out safety.
 
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