robert frost and eric densen innocent of all charges...

Well, since I don't own a 40k car, so I will relate this with something that actually happened to me. I lost my wallet once a long time ago. It just so happened that it was right after I cashed a check for a lot of work I had done. Long story short, there was over 3k cash in my wallet when I lost it.

About 5 hours of looking yielded nothing except some poison ivy. Someone knocked on my door later that night and when I opened it, there was a guy there holding my wallet. He said he had found it in the parking lot. Well, I didn't hesitate to pull out $100 bill and hand it to the guy. I didn't even count it until he was gone, and yes, it was all there minus the hundred I gave him. To this day, I still feel bad for not giving the guy more and that was almost 20 years ago. Now what kind of bung-holio would I have been if I would have called the cops and sicked them on this guy for hunting me down to give back my wallet? In my opinion, that is exactly what the guy did, hence my opinion of the situation.

I do appreciate what you are trying to say though. However, I respectfully disagree.

Um, the guy wasn't holding your wallet hostage for a fee. He gave you your wallet back and you chose to reward him. How would you of felt about him if he called you and said "I have your wallet. I'll give it back to you for a fee, otherwise you're SOL"? I'm sure you would have thought less of the person.
 
Well, since I don't own a 40k car, so I will relate this with something that actually happened to me. I lost my wallet once a long time ago. It just so happened that it was right after I cashed a check for a lot of work I had done. Long story short, there was over 3k cash in my wallet when I lost it.

About 5 hours of looking yielded nothing except some poison ivy. Someone knocked on my door later that night and when I opened it, there was a guy there holding my wallet. He said he had found it in the parking lot. Well, I didn't hesitate to pull out $100 bill and hand it to the guy. I didn't even count it until he was gone, and yes, it was all there minus the hundred I gave him. To this day, I still feel bad for not giving the guy more and that was almost 20 years ago. Now what kind of bung-holio would I have been if I would have called the cops and sicked them on this guy for hunting me down to give back my wallet? In my opinion, that is exactly what the guy did, hence my opinion of the situation.

I do appreciate what you are trying to say though. However, I respectfully disagree.

Your scenario is only comparable if the guy who brought back your wallet held it for ransom until you gave him $1000.

You were lucky enough to have an honest person find your wallet, who gave it back simply because it wasn't his. He didn't skim a little off the top or even ask for a reward.

Not the case in this story.
 
Personally, i think Bobert more than likely knows alot more about how these cues were stolen, and i don't buy the whole "i won em in a bet deal" B.S. Him, and his buddies prolly ripped em off to support their gambling/crack habit. Pure speculation, to be sure, but the odds are pretty good.
 
Maybe a little off topic, or maybe not ... can someone please tell me why pool players have a bad image? People are always discussing pool's bad image. The game is great, but the players ... not so much. It sure seems like we have too many rotten apples in our bushel.
If you think there aren't any rotten apples, then maybe you're one of them.
Karl
 
The minute you realized those cues were stolen you had an obligation to return them to their rightful owner. When you choosed not to do that-you recieved stolen property.

And then you took it one step further: You contacted the rightful owner and tried to extort more than the gracious reward he was offering you.

The fact that your on here bragging that you beat the charges...and not disputing the chain of events....really sums up the type of person you are...Not very smart and not to be trusted...
 
exactly....

Being the nobody that I am, I'll throw my 2 cents worth in and probably get flamed by those who have a different opinion than I do. I suppose my take on it is this, if I was the one the got ripped off for $11k worth of cues and was given the opportunity to recover them for $2.5k, I would call that a win. Stuck $2.5k vs. stuck $11k is a no-brainer I think. I would just be thankful to not be on the hook for all of the loss. But that's me I suppose.

Despite this being an all-around bad situation for everyone involved, I think what happened here was a flat out punk move by the "owner" of the cues in question to get the cops involved. This guy went out of his way to try and make things right and was on the hook for cash owed to him only to be thanked by a huge legal slap in the face for his time. He could have just as easily sold the cues for bigger money than the $2500 he felt he was due and never thought twice about it. Instead, he was trying to do the right thing for everyone involved. Sicking the cops on the situation is nothing but a punk move by someone so caught up in the money that he can't see what the "right" thing to do was and give the guy a bone for helping get his stuff back. Greed is tough to deal with sometimes.

The only thing I can take from this whole situation is that it's better to just sell the crap and let someone else deal with it. If I don't know for a fact that they're stolen, why would I go through the hassle of trying to return them to a potential owner when this is what happens???

The owner here just made it less likely that anyone else will ever get their cues back if they are stolen.

BTW... If I was sure something I got was stolen and I knew who the rightful owner was, I would return them without any expectation of repayment; however, being aware of this instance, it makes me wary of even doing that. I don't want to risk going through the hassle of being arrested and put in jail for trying to do the right thing.

You can say, but yeah if he returned them without any expectation??? and I would have to say, when people act this vindictive, you have no idea what they'll do...especially if they start thinking that you were the one who originally stole them...

Jaden
 
i think it is funny listening to a bunch of league players try to put this story together....the point is a judge read and listened to the story and found me innocent....but I'm sure you know more than him from sitting in front of your computer...can any of you draw your ball? if so let's play some....

I can only draw a ball directly into a pocket, obviously scratching... any other attempts to draw the ball on my part are to no avail. :(

On the other side of things, I read both threads.. all the way through, I really think that we cannot make a judgement call on the situation being 3rd party goers.

There is a few issues that cannot be discerned without being present during the phone calls, etc.

1.) Mr. RobertFrost could have or could not have had the full intention of returning the cues, this we will never truly know, because he wasn't given the chance. (The one thing he has on his side is that he brought the cues with him). Now this leaves me to think that He had every intention of returning them, therefore It seems that they might have agreed on a price, or he was willing to accept the 500$ finders fee.

2.) Robert Could have held out for more, and not be telling the entire truth about the phone call either.. Like I said, we will never know.. we need to be present to hear the true story.

3.) It could have turned out that Mr. Frost got lured into a trap, and the guy never even intended on paying them and led them to think that he would.

All of this weighed in.. It seems more so that Mr. Frost was going to return the cues, and why would he do that without having reached an agreement, or even just was willing to give them back.. (Now some of you could say he was extorting for more money, but what if the call actually went "Hey I got your cues, but I won them and the guy gave them to me in a gambling debt.." "Oh, how about 500$ for them both?", "Well.. I really have 2500$ invest in em, but I guess, would you be willing to give me more by chance? If not its cool", " Oh well ya, I guess I could work something out, since you took the time to find my stuff"

If this conversation went like that, which in all reasoning I can see anyone throwing it out there to see if maybe they would give them a bit more of a reward.. just to try it.. We all get that "Oh damn" feeling when we realize we could have gotten something more in a deal or gotten something for considerably less than what we paid if we just offered lower in the first place.. I.E. When I bought my home, I offered X amount of Cash for it.. They accepted right off the bat.. and I thought I was offering a low amount already, because it was already 20k less than what they were asking.. but in hind sight, I feel like I could have offered even less and still came away with the house, because of the quickness they jumped on it. See what I am saying?

It is in our nature to atleast say something, just to see.. I can see this going either way, which I why I choose to not pass judgement on either person. I am glad you were found not guilty, and I hope you can redeem your credibility in the pool community.

At the end of the day, I just want to be apart of the pool community and get to know all of you. Seek you all out and play you. Whether it be in a tournament, for fun, or for some money (when I get better.. im not in the business of giving away free hard earned cash.. haha).

So I look forward to meeting any and all of you.. and learning from all of you.

Good day.
 
The only thing I can take from this whole situation is that it's better to just sell the crap and let someone else deal with it. If I don't know for a fact that they're stolen, why would I go through the hassle of trying to return them to a potential owner when this is what happens???

The owner here just made it less likely that anyone else will ever get their cues back if they are stolen.

BTW... If I was sure something I got was stolen and I knew who the rightful owner was, I would return them without any expectation of repayment; however, being aware of this instance, it makes me wary of even doing that. I don't want to risk going through the hassle of being arrested and put in jail for trying to do the right thing.

You can say, but yeah if he returned them without any expectation??? and I would have to say, when people act this vindictive, you have no idea what they'll do...especially if they start thinking that you were the one who originally stole them...

Jaden

It is all about the negotiating. If you are in possession of something you know is stolen property then don't try and ransom it back to the rightful owner.




www.jbcases.com
 
I'm sure if he would have done what the guy did with your wallet this thread would never have happened, the cops never would have been called and he probably would have got the $500 Bill offered for the reward.

How do you know this is what happened exactly?

The biggest issue I see with all of these posts dogging Mr. Frost, is that everyone is taking Cornerstone's Original Post as the holy grail. He couldn't have obviously been lying or leaving anything out..

If that was the case, and his post had everything included and nothing left out, and no deception.. Than yes.. you would be right.. but how can you prove either of what they say is correct?

This being said.. neither person's post should be considered as word of truth.. So we can't use either one to debate the issue, because If you discount what rebuttals people have, that have what Frost said happened, then you have to discount anything cornerstone said happened to be fair.
 
If this conversation went like that, which in all reasoning I can see anyone throwing it out there to see if maybe they would give them a bit more of a reward.. just to try it.. We all get that "Oh damn" feeling when we realize we could have gotten something more in a deal or gotten something for considerably less than what we paid if we just offered lower in the first place.. I.E. When I bought my home, I offered X amount of Cash for it.. They accepted right off the bat.. and I thought I was offering a low amount already, because it was already 20k less than what they were asking.. but in hind sight, I feel like I could have offered even less and still came away with the house, because of the quickness they jumped on it. See what I am saying?

We're talking about stolen property, not a home purchase. A victim of a crime should not have to negotiate with anyone to get their property back. You don't do the right thing for a reward, you do it because it's the right thing to do, plain and simple. Otherwise you're doing the right thing for the wrong reason and than you're not really doing the right thing. :banghead:
 
We're talking about stolen property, not a home purchase. A victim of a crime should not have to negotiate with anyone to get their property back. You don't do the right thing for a reward, you do it because it's the right thing to do, plain and simple. Otherwise you're doing the right thing for the wrong reason and than you're not really doing the right thing. :banghead:

The cues were returned, so the right thing has been done regardless, you can act like this is a morality issue all you want, but the simple fact is.. You don't know what the conversation went like..

It is reasonable to consider that it could have went a different way than what was stated..

I was just using purchasing my home as the kind of feeling that is being felt, in no way was I comparing the actual purchasing to what happened, just the feeling of.. "Maybe I should have asked for a bit more, maybe he would have said okay, and if not.. no biggie.. atleast I tried"

If you tell me that you have never felt that way, I guess you are one of the few. I know I have felt that way a few times.. like man.. If they came off that much that easily, I wonder how much I could have got them to come off of it for..

Also playing morality into it.. Mr. Frost claims to have done some research to find out if they were stolen and who they belonged too.. where in the world is that his issue? He could have just sold them for what they were worth and made a good amount off them, but he didn't he sought out the owner of the cues.

He went above and beyond the call of duty, all be damned if someone gives me stolen property and I go out of my way to return it to someone several states away..

You can send me money in the mail to ship them to you, or you can come meet me where I live and get them, all be damned if I am going to come to your place to return them.. Why should I be out even more? I don't understand it.. Everyone looks at it as Cornerstones word is gold. I have to sit back and question both aspects.. and when I see everyone just taking one persons story as solid gold and discounting the other person totally.. it becomes foolish.

Do I condone keeping stolen property? Nope. Would it bother me if someone inferred they might like a bit more than what I offered them for their trouble.. Not really. I would just tell them that It was all I could afford, and that I was sorry they got a raw deal. If it couldn't be worked out without the authorities.. then yes, I would involve them.. but it seems the judge and the jury both decided that their involvement was minimal, and that no punishment was required.

I have no stance on this. If what cornerstone said, truly did happen, I am all for the path he took. IF they did hold out on him, then yes.. but I can see the conversation going different ways, that would not seem so bad. This being said, It is not our job to judge them, and since we will never know the true facts, we really need to stop taking one person's word over another.
 
The cues were returned, so the right thing has been done regardless, you can act like this is a morality issue all you want, but the simple fact is.. You don't know what the conversation went like..

It is reasonable to consider that it could have went a different way than what was stated..

I was just using purchasing my home as the kind of feeling that is being felt, in no way was I comparing the actual purchasing to what happened, just the feeling of.. "Maybe I should have asked for a bit more, maybe he would have said okay, and if not.. no biggie.. atleast I tried"

If you tell me that you have never felt that way, I guess you are one of the few. I know I have felt that way a few times.. like man.. If they came off that much that easily, I wonder how much I could have got them to come off of it for..

Also playing morality into it.. Mr. Frost claims to have done some research to find out if they were stolen and who they belonged too.. where in the world is that his issue? He could have just sold them for what they were worth and made a good amount off them, but he didn't he sought out the owner of the cues.

He went above and beyond the call of duty, all be damned if someone gives me stolen property and I go out of my way to return it to someone several states away..

You can send me money in the mail to ship them to you, or you can come meet me where I live and get them, all be damned if I am going to come to your place to return them.. Why should I be out even more? I don't understand it.. Everyone looks at it as Cornerstones word is gold. I have to sit back and question both aspects.. and when I see everyone just taking one persons story as solid gold and discounting the other person totally.. it becomes foolish.

Do I condone keeping stolen property? Nope. Would it bother me if someone inferred they might like a bit more than what I offered them for their trouble.. Not really. I would just tell them that It was all I could afford, and that I was sorry they got a raw deal. If it couldn't be worked out without the authorities.. then yes, I would involve them.. but it seems the judge and the jury both decided that their involvement was minimal, and that no punishment was required.

I have no stance on this. If what cornerstone said, truly did happen, I am all for the path he took. IF they did hold out on him, then yes.. but I can see the conversation going different ways, that would not seem so bad. This being said, It is not our job to judge them, and since we will never know the true facts, we really need to stop taking one person's word over another.

When "Christians" go to battle anything is possible. More harm has been done in the name of a pacifist than by any other faith. Only God knows what was in their thoughts.
 
Some of these posts are pathetic....no wonder pool is so highly respected in the mainstream. The OP is actually quite lucky that Bill is the kind of guy that would involve the police. I'm sure some owners of their stolen property wouldn't be so kind.

Pool.....great game played by ugly people
 
I am glad that everything was put out in the open, and that charges were dropped. It just seems like the original post in this thread turned from an informative post to a personal attack. Why keep fanning the flames?

Cornerstone made it public in the beginning if I recall correctly. Not that I am siding with Frost. He's a criminal who beat the rap. Sounds like not enough evidence to move forward with a conviction and the DA didn't want to take a chance to mess up his winning record.


As soon as you were aware that the property was stolen you should have notified the police, turned the cues over to them and let them resolve the situation from there.SIZE]


Yeah, just find a cop on the street and hand them the cues. Next thing you know cop shows up Wednesday night at precinct 5 league night with a cues for sale. I bet 4-1 those cues would end up in the crime lab inventory.


Realize with a different court ruling, someone else may have been doing it for you.

Yeah, his name is Big Leroy and he is very lonely.
 
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taking both people's word

I think most of us are taking both people's word. Seems obvious that Mr. Frost wasn't happy with roughly a five percent finders fee which is pretty standard and generous for something in this value range, not something that is owed for the return of stolen property unless there is an offer out to pay that. Once someone starts trying to get more than offered for the return of stolen property then they are very lucky if they don't wind up in the slammer on one set of charges or another. Gas money might be one thing, does five times the offered reward really seem reasonable to anyone?

I've owned businesses that people like to steal from, been robbed dozens of times. Twenty-two times in one year. Another business that I ignored smaller robberies and only bothered with the big ones might have been robbed more often. I had seven more serious robberies there in three months. I reported six of them, the seventh I went and talked to the thief and told him I didn't report it and wasn't reporting the eighth either. The .357 in my back pocket might have been some hint how I planned to deal with the eighth robbery but I never said I knew he was the thief or raised my voice. The eighth robbery by this thief never happened. However less than 10% of the thieves or their associates were ever caught, two because my partner and I caught them and called the law after we had them in hand, and several more because the thieves or their associates decided they could get more for my stuff selling it back to me than to people that knew it was hot or a pawn shop. Guess what? Every time I got my hands on somebody that tried to make me ransom my own property I squeezed them like a grape! The nicest thing I ever did when someone tried to sell me my property when I genuinely thought they didn't know it was mine and it had passed through several hands was tell them to go to hell, I'm taking my own property and doing them a favor not calling the cops.

If a reward is offered then the conditions of the reward should be honored. I have offered rewards a few times and honored the terms. If someone else tries to renegotiate the terms of the agreement then I'm no longer honor bound to honor the terms either and I'll do whatever seems most likely to get my property back and try to get my hands on the person or people that stole it. The police have been involved several times when the police suggested setting up a meeting with the people and they would be there instead of me or also. Pretty standard thing. Safest for all parties to let the police deal with it.

Hu
 
Robert,

All I am saying is that I have known many so called Christians that were as crooked as they come. Just because someone such as Bill or yourself for that matter SAY that they are a Christian does not mean that they are an honorable trustworthy person.

Just as I know many people who do not profess a belief in God and ARE honorable and trustworthy.

:smile:

Russ

absolutely-Thank you
 
i think it is funny listening to a bunch of league players try to put this story together....the point is a judge read and listened to the story and found me innocent....but I'm sure you know more than him from sitting in front of your computer...can any of you draw your ball? if so let's play some....

You know what I think is funny? Some local shortstop knows nothing about the law, gets caught up in an extortion deal gone bad, gets busted, spends a few nights in jail, posts bond, spends at least another thousand more on attorney fees, loses possession of the cues in question, doe not get any reward money, and then insults the entire pool league community only because there was insufficient evidence to convict. All over a few bucks.... yeah, greed is good !!

This was a typical "he said, she said" criminal case where corroborating evidence would be necessary to convict for extortion. So, you dodged a bullet by the skin of your teeth. Well done sir !!

Also, you were never found "innocent" so strike that word from you vocabulary. Just remember OJ was found NOT GUILTY in his murder case...
 
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Your lucky he didn't meet you, split your wig and just take his stuff back. There's nothing worse than a thief.
 
i think it is funny listening to a bunch of league players try to put this story together....the point is a judge read and listened to the story and found me innocent....but I'm sure you know more than him from sitting in front of your computer...can any of you draw your ball? if so let's play some....

I would be down to gamble some with you, do you only accept stolen cues as payment?
 
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