Efren totally dominates one-pocket, though... 5 wins and one 4th on his 6 last DCC events, tournaments with 400+ players...
Ronnie O'Sullivan--Greatest cue genius?
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Efren totally dominates one-pocket, though... 5 wins and one 4th on his 6 last DCC events, tournaments with 400+ players...
That is a great interview, not so much the Efren praise but Ronnie's explanation of the knowledge factor playing on that equipment and the differences in the game that cause the "pool" players advantages over the snooker players and the English 8-ball players.
Next time a "pool or snooker?" thread arises on the forum just link that video right there, it sums up the differences perfectly.
Efren is the best 1-pocket player ever, no doubt about that.
Unfortunately 1-pocket as much as I love player and watching it will never be a good fan targeted spectator game due to its slow pace of play and intricacy which goes over the average b-players head.
Pool needs to change things so that a person who actually does have a clear advantage in knowledege and skill such as Efren showed he had actually rises to the top of the sport, and not in some offshoot game that the general public has no idea even exists.
Earl came as close as anyone to "dominating" 9-Ball in the 80's and early 90's. He was clearly the favorite every time out in fields that had Mizerak, Sigel, Hopkins, Rempe, Hall, Efren, Bustamante, Parica and Varner. If every one of these great players played their best game, Earl played a notch above the rest of the world. And we all knew it!
As far as the above post where Celtic said Efren is clearly the best One Pocket player of all time, I would suggest you check with the more knowledgeable One Pocket crowd on onepocket.org. Ronnie still gets most of the votes from those that saw both play in their primes. Ronnie had weapons that no one else possessed before or since.
TRUTH! lol
PS: I hate it when people say 9 ball is easy and snooker is hard. All the snooker players i seem to meet have this view that they're better at pool because they play snooker rather than 8/9/straight, whatever it is......and then watch them fail at running out simple 4 or 5 ball run outs. <--- watching that makes me so happy.
lol
I thought last DCC he finished completely out of the money in 1p?
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I agree with everything you said 100% Earl's high gear was awe inspiring to watch. Ronnie's one pocket for the cash was clearly above the rest, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he spotting everyone back then including Jersey Red and Ed Kelly? There's never been anyone better than Ronnie at finding a shot when there didn't seem to be one.....and then running 8 and out...or 10 and out!
I have in fact talked with alot of older players who saw Ronnie Allen play while in his prime and while they say he was clearly the best player of his era by far in 1-pocket they also say that Efren brought 1-pocket to a new level even higher then Allen had played it at.
I would like to have some examples of "weapons that no one else possessed before or since" though, I have seen Efren do things noone would even think of doing in 1-pocket, I would be surprised if Allen had that much knowledge that he would fluster even Efren. Who knows, maybe he did, but some old timers in their 70's I have talked to that saw him play say he would be no better then even money against Efren, if that.
TRUTH! lol
PS: I hate it when people say 9 ball is easy and snooker is hard. All the snooker players i seem to meet have this view that they're better at pool because they play snooker rather than 8/9/straight, whatever it is......and then watch them fail at running out simple 4 or 5 ball run outs. <--- watching that makes me so happy.
Snooker players, in contrast to modest pool players, always overestimate their talent.:grin::grin::grin:
I saw Ronnie Allen play in his prime and I would pick him over Efren. I agree with you that Efren has better execution on some shots that no one else could pull off but Ronnie could find a shot when it didn't seem there was one. And he had nerves of steel, he'd go for shots that seemed to be very low percentage and yet he'd make them and run out. He'd shoot shots that appeared crazy like a combo bank where the cueball would fly off and collide with several balls and you'd have about 6 balls all moving around and yet he'd make the shot and a few of the balls would also end up near his pocket. He'd do this sort of thing all the time, you'd have had to see it to know what I mean.
Now, if Frederic Caudron or Blomdahl were to take up one pocket I believe they'd take the game into the stratasphere!
IMO you are 100% correct!!
Ronnie owns, period.
Depth of field in Carom is tiny, always has been, pool's greatest depth was decades ago, but UK snooker right now has the deepest talent pool in the history of cue sports, it's not even close.
No American could even get past club level in the UK, you guys run about 50-60 during your national championships, matter of fact, I doubt a single American could even get very far in Canada, we still have loads of guys who run 80-90+ that would get laughed out of most UK rooms.
As far as Ronnie's mental toughness, well that expression often refers to choking under pressure, Ronnie's like Earl, he doesn't choke, he's just wacky and did/does in fact suffer from clinical depression.
If snooker prize money was a tad less lucrative when Ronnie first arrived on the scene, there's no doubt in my mind he would have achieved double digit world titles. Ronnie lived up the celeb lifestyle bigtime and it cost him titles.
furthermore, Blohmdal OWNS Celumans, period, think Hendry vs Ronnie to get an idea only more lobsided with all the oldtimers making excuses for Celumans
and Efren can't compete with top amateurs in Carom nor snooker, he has no chance, somewhere along the line (I'm thinking IPT era) Efren became divine around here but he's no god,
his pool titles pale to Strickland,
he was OWNED by Sigel back in the day, been said by many those were his peak playing years too,
and evidently avoided Buddy and Parica like the plague, and now Orcullo. His gambling legacy stems from a seemingly never ending line of backers, a line that will forever continue regardless if he wins or loses
his status as the best pool player ever is very debatable, yet alone best cueist when everyone else on that short list has won more real world championships than him
Depth of field in Carom is tiny, always has been, pool's greatest depth was decades ago, but UK snooker right now has the deepest talent pool in the history of cue sports, it's not even close.
No American could even get past club level in the UK, you guys run about 50-60 during your national championships, matter of fact, I doubt a single American could even get very far in Canada, we still have loads of guys who run 80-90+ that would get laughed out of most UK rooms.
As far as Ronnie's mental toughness, well that expression often refers to choking under pressure, Ronnie's like Earl, he doesn't choke, he's just wacky and did/does in fact suffer from clinical depression.
If snooker prize money was a tad less lucrative when Ronnie first arrived on the scene, there's no doubt in my mind he would have achieved double digit world titles. Ronnie lived up the celeb lifestyle bigtime and it cost him titles.
furthermore, Blohmdal OWNS Celumans, period, think Hendry vs Ronnie to get an idea only more lobsided with all the oldtimers making excuses for Celumans
and Efren can't compete with top amateurs in Carom nor snooker, he has no chance, somewhere along the line (I'm thinking IPT era) Efren became divine around here but he's no god,
his pool titles pale to Strickland,
he was OWNED by Sigel back in the day, been said by many those were his peak playing years too,
and evidently avoided Buddy and Parica like the plague, and now Orcullo. His gambling legacy stems from a seemingly never ending line of backers, a line that will forever continue regardless if he wins or loses
his status as the best pool player ever is very debatable, yet alone best cueist when everyone else on that short list has won more real world championships than him
REALLY?
See, what Ronnie has done in these recent - what... 20 years I believe- might have been something that could've been considered revolutionary, but I completely digress about him being one of the best that has ever held a cue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfKiGSGdA5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWlzM3NfIro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZsj4BZ8BWU
Joe Davis converted from English Billiards to Snooker only for his folksman to compliment on him as being one of the best in his time. For a moment there, if Walter Lindrum were to ever grasp his hands on Snooker, he could have made something that would have been much more spectacular than what Davis could have ever done. English Billiards is the start of what all the other billiard sports are. Russian Billiards: from it's in-offs and potting abilities; Pool changed when Snooker was introduced in the states and tweaked it; Snooker came from English Billiards-- obviously; Carom came from France when they decided to close it's pockets to make hitting caroms more easier. Walter Lindrum basically took that game and perfected it. His father made him use the cue ball and one other ball and positioned both to whatever he pleased until he got control of that... and then used the final ball to carom whereever it descired. Don't believe me? Read Robert Byrne Advanced Techniques in Pool and Billiards in the very end portion under the autobiographies.
I thought what Lindrum has perfected wouldn't have made any difference, but it does. It's like a mixture of Frederic Caudron's Straight Rail, Balkline, 1 and 3 Cushion skills and a great snooker player's potting skill being converted into Pool. English Billiards > Snooker.
I hope you catch my drift here.
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Walter Lindrum
A story from one of his tournaments. I'm not sure if this feat has ever been duplicated. For those who are unfamiliar with the players mentioned, Newman, Davis and McConachy were the top players of the day.
News of the World Trophy
29th September 1930 saw the start of Camkin's "Empire Tournament" for which the News of the World had donated a Gold Cup. As a measure of his admitted superiority, Lindrum was required to concede 7,000 points start to all the other players - who otherwise played from scratch - in time limit matches of 42 hrs lasting a fortnight. Matches were played on the new "Janus" cotton cloth and with all the top players taking part, this event was the focal point of the professional season.
The tournament supplied some sensational performances, not least of which was when Newman (rec.7,000) defeated Lindrum by 1,080 points in Liverpool. This was despite Lindrum making a break of 1,826 which was the highest ever seen in that city.
The ease with which Lindrum subsequently disposed of the improving Joe Davis was a surprise to many people who felt that the 7,000 start would be too much for the Australian. In the event he caught up the start in the first four days and went on to win by 4,500 points averaging 191 for the match.
In his match against McConachy, Lindrum established a new record when he made five four-figure breaks in consecutive sessions, the highest of these being 1,875.
A story from one of his tournaments. I'm not sure if this feat has ever been duplicated. For those who are unfamiliar with the players mentioned, Newman, Davis and McConachy were the top players of the day.
News of the World Trophy
29th September 1930 saw the start of Camkin's "Empire Tournament" for which the News of the World had donated a Gold Cup. As a measure of his admitted superiority, Lindrum was required to concede 7,000 points start to all the other players - who otherwise played from scratch - in time limit matches of 42 hrs lasting a fortnight. Matches were played on the new "Janus" cotton cloth and with all the top players taking part, this event was the focal point of the professional season.
The tournament supplied some sensational performances, not least of which was when Newman (rec.7,000) defeated Lindrum by 1,080 points in Liverpool. This was despite Lindrum making a break of 1,826 which was the highest ever seen in that city.
The ease with which Lindrum subsequently disposed of the improving Joe Davis was a surprise to many people who felt that the 7,000 start would be too much for the Australian. In the event he caught up the start in the first four days and went on to win by 4,500 points averaging 191 for the match.
In his match against McConachy, Lindrum established a new record when he made five four-figure breaks in consecutive sessions, the highest of these being 1,875.
Record 3,905 break
In December 1930, in his last scheduled match of the tournament Lindrum made a World record break of 3,905 against McConachy surpassing his own record made the previous year. Proceeding with an unfinished break of three, Lindrum occupied the table for the whole 1¾ hrs of the afternoon session, raising the break to 2,378 unfinished, and incidentally creating another record for the number of points scored in a session. In the evening he continued to score at a rapid rate, when having lost the white in reaching 3,905 he set up a double baulk. The break occupied a total of 3 hrs 5 minutes play. Playing wonderful billiards, he followed this with breaks of 2,331 and 1,137 made in consecutive visits, and had two others over the thousand during the match. Over the second week of the match Lindrum had an incredible average of 313, and having conceded 7,000 points start, he won by almost 6,500. Telegrams of congratulation included one from his father who tersely cabled just two words : "Wonderful Performance". Lindrum takes the News of the World trophy
As the competition finished in a three-way tie, an additional play-off round was arranged on a knock-out basis. In the final, Lindrum took the Gold Cup, by defeating Newman (rec. 7,000) by 8,400 points. In this victory, Lindrum included breaks of 2,835, 451, 1,796 and 2,583 in successive visits. Match averages of 248 for Lindrum and 169 for Newman set yet another record. The number of people wishing to see the match would have filled the Thurston's match hall ten times over. Thousands of people crowded Leicester Square and at the end of the game, when Lindrum emerged with the trophy, he was given a rousing reception by his many admirers.