Rule:

[JoeyA]

Player A plays a legal safety in 9 ball in the early part of the game but not the first shot after the break. Player B looks at the shot, prepares to shoot, declares that it is a great safety but steps up from the shot choosing not to shoot the shot and motions for Player A to take the shot. Player A shoots the shot. Player B then realizes that he should not have offered Player A the shot back and calls a foul. Besides a big argument, what is the rule?
Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[Ralph Kramden]

Sounds like some kind'a 'Pool Hall Junkies' bamboozel to me.

 

[Bigtruck]

For Starters

Player A plays a legal safety in 9 ball in the early part of the game but not the first shot after the break. Player B looks at the shot, prepares to shoot, declares that it is a great safety but steps up from the shot choosing not to shoot the shot and motions for Player A to take the shot. Player A shoots the shot. Player B then realizes that he should not have offered Player A the shot back and calls a foul. Besides a big argument, what is the rule?
Thanks,
JoeyA

Player A has ball in hand as soon as player B says great safe and concedes ball in hand. End of story. This was not a roll out.

Ray

ps. nice easy scenarios are good in the morning.

 

[Andrew Manning]

Player A plays a legal safety in 9 ball in the early part of the game but not the first shot after the break. Player B looks at the shot, prepares to shoot, declares that it is a great safety but steps up from the shot choosing not to shoot the shot and motions for Player A to take the shot. Player A shoots the shot. Player B then realizes that he should not have offered Player A the shot back and calls a foul. Besides a big argument, what is the rule?
Thanks,
JoeyA

If playing by world standardized rules, player A has fouled by shooting when it wasn't his turn, and player B has ball in hand. "Motioning" for the other player to shoot does not count as taking your turn. If you wish to give up ball in hand intentionally, you have to touch the CB with your tip, thus taking your turn at the table by committing a foul. Just motioning or even saying something are not options.

-Andrew

 

[Bob Jewett]

If playing by world standardized rules, player A has fouled by shooting when it wasn't his turn, and player B has ball in hand. "Motioning" for the other player to shoot does not count as taking your turn. If you wish to give up ball in hand intentionally, you have to touch the CB with your tip, thus taking your turn at the table by committing a foul. Just motioning or even saying something are not options.

-Andrew

Well, sort of. If you motion for your opponent to take a shot when you are fully aware that it is not his shot to get him to commit an "out of turn" foul, you are guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct. I would penalize such intentional action by kicking the player out of the tournament with forfeiture of any prizes he had coming.

Now, what do you do if both players loose track of what the game situation is? The new WSR have a sort of guideline for this. It is treated like a stalemate.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

C'mon Bob, Loosen UP

Well, sort of. If you motion for your opponent to take a shot when you are fully aware that it is not his shot to get him to commit an "out of turn" foul, you are guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct. I would penalize such intentional action by kicking the player out of the tournament with forfeiture of any prizes he had coming.

Are you saying that you don't give ONE warning ?
Doug
( don't make me hurt you.......... dammit ! )






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[Bob Jewett]

Are you saying that you don't give ONE warning ?
...

If a player intentionally tricks his opponent into making a foul, I don't want him in the tournament. Both players sleepwalking as in the OP's post is a different matter.

 

[JoeyA]

How Many Have You Kicked Out The Tournament?

If a player intentionally tricks his opponent into making a foul, I don't want him in the tournament. Both players sleepwalking as in the OP's post is a different matter.

In all of your years of refereeing pool, how many people have you kicked out of a tournament for unsportsmanlike conduct?

I'VE NEVER SEEN ONE PERSON KICKED OUT OF A POOL TOURNAMENT, although I am just a babe by most standards.

Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[Bob Jewett]

In all of your years of refereeing pool, how many people have you kicked out of a tournament for unsportsmanlike conduct?

I'VE NEVER SEEN ONE PERSON KICKED OUT OF A POOL TOURNAMENT, although I am just a babe by most standards.

Thanks,
JoeyA

I've seen players who should have been ejected, but the TD didn't do it. I recall one fist fight at a tournament, and I think at least one of the players didn't come back. And then there's dumping.

 

[JoeyA]

I've seen players who should have been ejected, but the TD didn't do it. I recall one fist fight at a tournament, and I think at least one of the players didn't come back.

OK, but that counts for NONE. Thanks for your candor.

Has ANYONE ever seen a person ejected by a tournament director? What were the circumstances?

And please don't give me the instance where a team or a league player was banned for sandbagging. I know about those prejudicial instances.

HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN A PLAYER EJECTED FROM A TOURNAMENT FOR UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT?

JoeyA (on a quest)

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

Btw, Joey..... YOU Are On ONE Warning At Present

HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN A PLAYER EJECTED FROM A TOURNAMENT FOR UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT?

JoeyA (on a quest)

This is probably not what you had in mind, BUT, I had a player that I was constantly putting on "One Warning" for unsportsmanlike behavior. I finally told him AFTER a tournament that he would not be allowed to play in ANY future tournaments that I held.

We used to open at 11:00 a.m. for the 1:00 p.m. tournament and entrants were allowed to practice for Free for the two hours before the tournament started. I was running late and someone else ( a poolroom employee) let this individual practice and accepted his entry fee for the tournament.

When I arrived, signed up the remaining entries and filled out the chart, I became aware of this player in the field. I handed him his money back and ejected him from the tournament for PRIOR Bad Sportsmanship.

I also ejected a player (without a refund) for arguing with ME during a tournament.....

Doug
( my bark is not as bad as my bite..... imo )



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[gulfportdoc]

HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN A PLAYER EJECTED FROM A TOURNAMENT FOR UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT?

JoeyA (on a quest)

Well I'm sure no one has ever been ejected from a tournament for unsportsmanlike conduct in LOUISIANA!

Jokes aside, in your above example, if I were TD I'd have the balls replaced and then allow player B to shoot. If the balls could not be replaced, I'd nullify the game and have them start over with the same guy breaking.

Doc

 

[desert1pocket]

I've seen players get ejected form tourney's for pretty mild infractions.

The most ridiculous was the player that got ejected from a tourney for hitting balls on an empty table while waiting for his match. He was told not to once, and they threw him out when he got caught doing it a second time. That particular pool hall has a rule against practicing between matches, and it really sucks when you win the hot seat, and then have to sit and get cold while you wait an hour or more for the final match.

Another time a player got frustrated by several bad rolls, snapped his cue in half, and was ejected for unsportsman-like conduct.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

A Rule Without A Penalty Is Only A SUGGESTION

The most ridiculous was the player that got ejected from a tourney for hitting balls on an empty table while waiting for his match. He was told not to once, and they threw him out when he got caught doing it a second time. That particular pool hall has a rule against practicing between matches, and it really sucks when you win the hot seat, and then have to sit and get cold while you wait an hour or more for the final match.

That is without a doubt, the most stupid rule that I've ever heard of.

There IS a rule that prohibits a player from shooting balls on another table during their match or while their opponent is in the restroom.

We used to keep a handful of tables available for players to practice on while awaiting their upcoming matches.

Doug
( whomever made and/or enforced that rule should be shot or hung...... unless there's some stupid rule about that TOO )

 

[JoeyA]

I've seen players get ejected form tourney's for pretty mild infractions.

The most ridiculous was the player that got ejected from a tourney for hitting balls on an empty table while waiting for his match. He was told not to once, and they threw him out when he got caught doing it a second time. That particular pool hall has a rule against practicing between matches, and it really sucks when you win the hot seat, and then have to sit and get cold while you wait an hour or more for the final match.

Another time a player got frustrated by several bad rolls, snapped his cue in half, and was ejected for unsportsman-like conduct.

What city was this in?

I've played in tournaments where they do not allow you to practice during the tournament and yes it does suck. The guy who broke his cue in half should not have been ejected unless he broke it beating on the establishment's equipment or someone's body.
JoeyA

 

[Bill O]

That is without a doubt, the most stupid rule that I've ever heard of.

There IS a rule that prohibits a player from shooting balls on another table during their match or while their opponent is in the restroom.

We used to keep a handful of tables available for players to practice on while awaiting their upcoming matches.

Doug
( whomever made and/or enforced that rule should be shot or hung...... unless there's some stupid rule about that TOO )

Maybe they only had one table?

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

Where'd I Put My Cat 'O Nine Tails ?

Maybe they only had one table?

I hadn't thought of THAT !!!!!
Doug
( I'm going to flog myself, now )





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[desert1pocket]

What city was this in?

I've played in tournaments where they do not allow you to practice during the tournament and yes it does suck. The guy who broke his cue in half should not have been ejected unless he broke it beating on the establishment's equipment or someone's body.
JoeyA

Happened in Tucson Az. I wouldn't mind stupid sh*t like that so much if everyone got the same treatment, but it seems to be pretty selective. The players who are at that poolhall every day practice between matches all the time, and nobody says a word. The guy who broke his cue did it on a railing separating the playing area from a viewing area, not on a table or anything.

 

[jay helfert]

Well, sort of. If you motion for your opponent to take a shot when you are fully aware that it is not his shot to get him to commit an "out of turn" foul, you are guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct. I would penalize such intentional action by kicking the player out of the tournament with forfeiture of any prizes he had coming.

Now, what do you do if both players loose track of what the game situation is? The new WSR have a sort of guideline for this. It is treated like a stalemate.

I agree and disagree with Bob here. If I were the TD and this siutuation came up, I would rule that once Player A had taken the next shot, it became "his" turn at the table and the match should proceed from that point on. If I believed that this was a "move" by Player B to get BIH, I would warn him that if anything like this happens again, he would lose the match he was playing.

 

[jay helfert]

OK, but that counts for NONE. Thanks for your candor.

Has ANYONE ever seen a person ejected by a tournament director? What were the circumstances?

And please don't give me the instance where a team or a league player was banned for sandbagging. I know about those prejudicial instances.

HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN A PLAYER EJECTED FROM A TOURNAMENT FOR UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT?

JoeyA (on a quest)

In over 20 years of directing pool tournaments, I have twice penalized players with a "loss of match" penalty, both times for loud and profane language and verbal threats. I had given each player a warning that the next one I heard using this language would lose the match.

Several times I have penalized a player with a "loss of game" for some infraction that was clearly unsportsmanlike conduct. Obvious sharking on the 9 ball being one of them (I saw it!). Just like in the situation described above, there are some things that can happen in a pool match not covered by the rules. That is when a TD must make a judgement call, that is in the best interests of fair play.

I have only one time kicked a player out of a tournament. It was at the U.S. Bar Table Championships years ago. Someone was using "slugs" in the table, and not quarters. By a process of elimination, we figured out who was doing it, and in his next match we caught him with a bag of slugs. He was then held by hotel security until the slot machines were emptied that night. If any of these slugs were found in there, he would have been off to jail. Luckily for him, that was not the case. They then asked me if I wanted to prosecute, since this did happen in a Nevada casino. I told him he was out of the tournament and forfeited his prize money (he was in the final 24 players). He was also kicked out of the hotel that night. His wife and child were with him, and he was glad to be released and get the H--out of Dodge.

I also kicked a drunken player out of the tournament area after he had been eliminated from the tournament. He was blocking a fire exit and I asked him to move. He turned to me and said F U. I resisted the urge to punch him in the mouth and instead had hotel security usher him outside.