Rules and guidelines for selling items

billiardcue

billiardcue

11th Commandment
Silver Member
Just a suggestion - some rules for selling items on this forum might be instituted, it would cut down the amount of useless posts to a seller's thread.

I frequent corvetteforum.com, they follow strict guidelines for this reason.

Below are their "rules and guidelines", you might check it out for some good ideas.


1. No commercial sales unless by a supporting Vendor.

See Savewave's comments below for more clarification.

2. No eBay links to promote/aid a sale.

The Corvetteforum is not eBay; we've had too many bad deals with eBay transactions and they have nothing to do with the forum. If eBay is disallowed, so do all the negative posts that will come from those bad transactions.

3. No "best offers."

Best offer sales are really no different than eBay. Bidding wars start and usually don't end favorably. Please set a price and stick to it.

All commitments to buy must be made in public!!! You must honor the order in which people respond. First to respond has dibs. No PMs allowed unless the person replies to the thread first. PMs are ok for transaction closing/address exchanges, of course.

Asking for pictures is not a commitment to buy, and the seller is under no obligation to refuse an offer from another buyer ready to purchase at his/her selling price sight unseen. (Added by cor07vette 1/14/07).

I don't care if the second person in line has cash waiting, if the first guy has a legitimate question and
is waiting for an answer, he still gets first crack at it.
Not following this guideline can result in you never having a For Sale thread ever again.

4. No hijacking of threads.

This means keep it on track. Only replies related to the thread can be posted.
If it is a for sale thread and you have the same item for sale, start your own thread. Do not link your thread in your reply.
If it is a "want to buy" you may offer your parts for sale by providing a link to your thread.

5. All sellers must have their profile filled out.

If a seller or buyer does not have a location in his profile, do not do business with them.
It seems that many of the problems we see deal with someone who doesn't want to disclose their location.
They are trying to hide something, my advice, do not deal with them.
If you are a seller, please include your location, Your Zip Code and part of your full name in your profile so that it is easily visible under your name when you post.(mod by AT&NB 1-27-07)
If you don't have a location under your name, your thread will be removed, no exceptions.
These deals are based on trust, if you can't trust people enough to let them know where you are
located, how can they trust you to send you money for parts sight unseen?
Naturally, if someone sends you money, they will have an address, but is it real? Is it a PO Box? Is it an empty house so you can fake your address?
If these bad deals keep happening (and I'm not talking about the scam artists who are new members, but longtime members who are just not playing nice), I will recommend that this section be removed from the forum.

6. Pictures are highly encouraged.

Digital cameras have never been cheaper than they are right now. If you can afford a computer with high speed Internet, you can afford even a cheap digital camera. Pictures should be of the highest quality available; nobody wants to see tiny or blurry pictures. If you have highspeed Internet, most providers give out a free storage area. I suggest you check into it and create a folder that is not password protected to store pictures in.

7. Bad deals may be posted as well as good deals.

Bad deals may be posted only after every possible attempt to resolve it has been tried and failed - only the facts can be posted. There will be no false accusations, name calling or insults.
Communication is your best friend in every transaction, be clear on how you want it handled.
If you can't agree on terms, then it's best to abort the transaction.
You may not reply to a bad thread unless you are one of the parties involved or have something constructive to add.
There will be no lynch mob.
People who reply with , or any other smiley or "TTT" will be disciplined.
If you are the creator of a "Bad Deal" thread, you must PM me with a link so that I can keep it under review. I don't always see every thread every day. If you don't alert me, the thread will be removed.

8. Be up front with shipping and handling charges.

Be sure to state how you will be shipping and how much you will charge. Most shipping companies will give you an estimate based on dimensions of the box, the weight and origin and destination zip codes. Just go to their website.
www.ups.com
www.usps.com
www.fedex.com
www.dhl.com

9. Buyer beware.

As always it is buyer beware, seller beware. If you are unsure of a person, check their profile, ask around (privately of course), there are many members here who know each other or know of people. This way you can find out if the sale will go positively.

10. Threads will be closed without warning

If you read these guidelines, the reasons for closing a thread have been stated.

Savewave and the other Admins add the following, which details the Forums rules about supporting vendors:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savewave
1. Non-supporting vendors can't use the Forum to market and promote their goods/services.
We allow members to include a link in their signatures to their businesses so long as it
does not compete with a supporting vendor, is not Corvette related AND does not conflict
with any other Forum rules. The vendors involved do not fit that guideline and may not
use the Forum for promotion of their goods/services.

2. Forum members can post about a good experience they have had with a non-supporting vendor
so long as that post is not so specific (address, phone number, email address, URL) or so
frequent as to constitute marketing and promotion. The links included and repeated references
to some of those involved put them in conflict with our rules/guidelines.

3. There is some kind of rivalry and/or personal dispute involving one or more of these non-
supporting vendors that has resulted in personal attacks and repeated bashing. Forum rules
allow for the posting of a factual account of an unresolved dispute so long as every reasonable
effort first has been made to resolved the issue offline. After the factual account has been
posted, it goes into the archives and cannot be reintroduced on subsequent days and in a variety
of sections. The dispute in some of the links you provided is in conflict with those rules/guidelines

Bottom line: Nobody is exempt from Forum rules/guidelines. The vendors mentioned must stop using the Forum to promote their goods/services or risk being banned. The loyal followers of
each vendor much stop promoting the services provided by their friends because it has exceeded what is allowable. The bashing of vendors (supporting or non-supporting) and Forum members is always inappropriate and must stop.

11, Be specific in your descriptions.
Know your parts. Not every year is compatible.

The Black Book is very helpful in the basic stuff, if you are unsure, please state it and someone will chime in with the correct info.


12. You may only have one open thread per part.

If you created a post two weeks ago and it has disappeared, you can simply "TTT" it rather than create a new thread. If the thread has gone two pages without a sale, at that time let me know and I will close it and then you may start a new one. Posts with many replies and no sale tend to get confusing.

Use email notification when you post, this way you can go directly to the post when a reply has been made.

13. Parting out cars


You may part out a car, but please list all items available with prices(no offers remember?).

I do realize there are hundreds of parts and subassemblies available, but to avoid cluttering up a thread with requests, it's best to list as many as possible.

14.Shipping..

We realize that things in your life may happen that prevent you from replying or shipping goods in a timely manner. But if you have a vacation planned, please wait until you come back before you list anything. This includes medical procedures that were not an emergency.

Folks pay for stuff and they expect fast shipping.

For instance, I'm headed for FLA tomorrow, so I'm not going to list anything for sale or try to buy anything (well maybe buy) until I get home.

If for some reason the sale takes longer than normal and the day before you leave on a vacation the item sells. Make sure you tell the buyer that you won't be available. Or Post in the thread that you will respond when you get back.

15. When your item has been sold,
Please revise the original post so that others amd the moderators will know and can close the thread. In addition, if you have multiple items for sale, please update the first post of the thread as to remaining parts.

This thread is a living document and will be updated from time to time so be sure to check it from time to time before you post a thread. In addition, if you feel something needs to be added, PM me and we'll discuss it..
 
IMO there are some good suggestions buried in there, but overall way too much moderation required for a lot of these rules (e.g. the "cash waiting" example listed under #3).

A good suggestion that I like is for having users fill out their profile. We've all seen some examples of scammers who have used this forum in the last couple of years....anything reasonable to help combat that would be worthwhile.

Sean
 
My 2 cents and you can't have it

IMHO this website is for the free interaction of people who like the sport of billiards and all that comes with it. The free spirit form of this site is what makes it special, unlike some of the other billiard websites like AZ. I can understand your feelings on the need to set rules and guidelines, I just do not agree.
But I do agree that more people should fill out their personal info in order to stop or limit fraudulent actions. But once again I think that we shouldn't regulate it, just help promote more people to do it through our actions. Once you start to regulate and limit the ability of people to act in their own way, it wouldn't be AZ. And once regulation starts, fees would start, because somebody has to do all this regulating sand watching and rule keeping.

Pool in itself is open in its rules. Every state, city, bar, has a little variation in their rules. House rules are slightly different due to which HOUSE you are in. In the AZ HOUSE, we have our rules, and we like them just fine. If you want regulation, the Ebay house is open down the street. Just MY opinion.

Michael
 
GoTulane said:
IMHO this website is for the free interaction of people who like the sport of billiards and all that comes with it. The free spirit form of this site is what makes it special, unlike some of the other billiard websites like AZ. I can understand your feelings on the need to set rules and guidelines, I just do not agree.
But I do agree that more people should fill out their personal info in order to stop or limit fraudulent actions. But once again I think that we shouldn't regulate it, just help promote more people to do it through our actions. Once you start to regulate and limit the ability of people to act in their own way, it wouldn't be AZ. And once regulation starts, fees would start, because somebody has to do all this regulating sand watching and rule keeping.

Pool in itself is open in its rules. Every state, city, bar, has a little variation in their rules. House rules are slightly different due to which HOUSE you are in. In the AZ HOUSE, we have our rules, and we like them just fine. If you want regulation, the Ebay house is open down the street. Just MY opinion.

Michael
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I am new and only joined because of the rules we already have. I bought a cue my first day here-- have one for sale that i sold here and am hoping to buy another. I completely agree with tulane here. Go on down the street to change things.
 
Some of that is good and some of it is just far to much and complicated to police.

I think for the most part things go smoothly here but from time to time you get the yahoo that wants to belittle your product or just start an argument for no good reason other than to screw with your sale.

Rule number one should be: Respect the sellers thread as if he were conducting business right in front of you. Don't flame on someones personal business publically. We have PMs here.
 
I agree: This ain't the corvette forum.

That said, I think some "Tips" for people trying to sell their cues might be helpful, as I've bought and sold a bunch here.

Here are just a few of my personal tips, and these are meant only to help out those trying to sell their cues as well as the potential buyers of the cues being sold.


Dakota Cues Selling Tips:

1.) Post pictures!!! That's THE most important thing you can do, period. You probably wouldn't buy anything sight unseen, right? Niether would most of us here. The better the picture, the better the chance of not only selling the cue, but getting the most for it. I spend extra time making sure any pictures I post are good quality.

2.) Accurate description of specs.

The basics are:
Make
Length
Weight
Shaft Thickness/Tips
Condition
... and anything else relevant to sale. Just think of it this way: If I were going to buy the cue I'm selling, what would I want/need to know?


3.) Price is preferred. I feel if you're looking to sell the cue you should post what you want for it, and whether it's negotiable or not. If you'd like $1,500, but are willing to deal, fine: $1,500 obo. If not, fine: $1,500 FIRM. This gets the point across.

4.) For eBayers - I personally like to list links and like it when others do this. I don't think that should go away. It opens the sale of the cue up to a lot more people PLUS creates a sense of urgency if anyone is on the fence. The other thing is that you can see what kind of person you are dealing with by checking their feedback... or lack of it. I'm not saying eBay is good or bad (as I've had personal experience both ways), I'm just saying it SHOULD be an option.

Again, these are just some tips that have helped me buy and sell cues with confidence here.

I hope they help!
 
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Dakota Cues said:
I agree: This ain't the corvette forum.

That said, I think some "Tips" for people trying to sell their cues might be helpful, as I've bought and sold a bunch here.

Here are just a few of my personal tips, and these are meant only to help out those trying to sell their cues as well as the potential buyers of the cues being sold.


Dakota Cues Selling Tips:

1.) Post pictures!!! That's THE most important thing you can do, period. You probably wouldn't buy anything sight unseen, niether would most of us here. The better the picture, the better the chance of not only selling the cue, but getting the most for it. I spend extra time making sure any pictures I post are of good quality.

2.) Accurate description of specs.

The basics are:
Make
Length
Weight
Shaft Thickness/Tips
Condition
... and anything else relevant to sale. Just think of it this way: If I were going to buy the cue I'm selling, what would I want/need to know.


3.) Price is preferred. I feel if you're looking to sell the cue you should post what you want for it, and whether it's negotiable or not. If you'd like $1,500, but are willing to deal, fine: $1,500 obo. If not, fine: $1,500 FIRM. This gets the point across.

4.) For eBayers - I personally like to list links and like it when others do this. I don't think that should go away. It opens the sale of the cue up to a lot more people PLUS creates a sense of urgency if anyone is on the fence. The other thing is that you can see what kind of person you are dealing with by checking their feedback... or lack of it. I'm not saying eBay is good or bad (as I've had personal experience both ways), I'm just saying it SHOULD be an option.

Again, these are just some tips that have helped me buy and sell cues with confidence here.

I hope they help!
Click to expand...
I like all of your suggestions and your ideas are a great guide for selling on this forum. I also don't see anything wrong with posting link to ebay because like you said it opens the sale up to so many more people.
 
SCCues said:
I like all of your suggestions and your ideas are a great guide for selling on this forum. I also don't see anything wrong with posting link to ebay because like you said it opens the sale up to so many more people.
Click to expand...

I AGREEE........

some people prefer to deal through ebay.. i can understand that. it gives them a sense of secuirity... especially if the seller has good feedback and actually cares about it..

i like the way the forum is here... not to long ago we discussed changing it, and azhousepro even went as far as making a new section for testing it.. and tell you the truth.. the way it goes now is what makes it work... all it needs is some fine tuning like Dakota said.. not a complete overhall..

chris
 
I like the idea of just having private sellers on AZ, not all these dealers with big websites full of cues, dont get me wrong if your a dealer good for you, but many on here that are cue shopping are looking for a fair price, and not looking to pay a premium top dollar like you find on most if not all dealer sites
 
or1pkt said:
I like the idea of just having private sellers on AZ, not all these dealers with big websites full of cues, dont get me wrong if your a dealer good for you, but many on here that are cue shopping are looking for a fair price, and not looking to pay a premium top dollar like you find on most if not all dealer sites
Click to expand...


Three words... Define fair price

JV
 
Dakota - you the man!

I agree with Dakota's tips. These are great tips for AZ members to use in order to ensure a post/sale/purchase goes as smoothly as possible. If you follow them, you will probably sell your cue faster, with less headache, and get what you want for it. Can't force anyone to follow these tips, but believe me when I say, it can only help you through the process of selling and purchsing cues. It can't hurt you, so why not do it.
Great help and information for us newbies to AZ, and even the old pros.

Great post Dakota.
 
I would define fair price as selling a cue for a reasonable price and or profit, versus many dealers who are selling cues more as a job/career so they must get maximum profit. In my opinion most dealers only make it cause they have a bigger selection of high end cues and they expose themselves to a lot of folks that have money to burn, Dealers also do consignment type deals which is almost like making free money.
 
Thanks...

Glad it seems like my tips helped out.

I'll add my thoughts on the dealer part, too, but I'll preface this by saying that I am NOT affiliated with any site - heck I don't even have one of my own!!!

The truth is that I think dealers are good for this forum for a few reasons like:

Selection
Current Market Value
Variety
Trade/Consignment Deals
Reputation
Customer Satisfaction

The thing that seems like a downside with dealers is that they are knowledgeable - They deal in cues all the time so they know the current value of a cue a lot closer than most private parties selling a cue do. This is not a bad thing, but when we think of getting a "Steal of a Deal", like with a car, you probably won't find it on a lot (or site). You got that deal from somebody who either didn't know the value of what they had OR were just in a hurry to dump it due to financial needs.

Joe V's question on what is a fair price is just determined by the public. You can put whatever price you want on a cue. If the public doesn't think it's fair, they won't buy the cue. It's as simple as that, and it's the same with a private deal. What makes it SEEM like the sites have higher prices, imo, is that they have such a selection of cues that one that might have been hot is now not currently in favour, or, and what I feel is most likely to be happening, is that the cue is on consignment and the private party wants more than what the market will give. That's not the sites problem, it's just the owner being too optimistic.

Again I think regardless of what the cue is, or where you find it, the bottom line is that if somebody wants something bad enough the term "Fair Price" can be very different from buyer to buyer.
 
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cueaddicts said:
IMO there are some good suggestions buried in there, but overall way too much moderation required for a lot of these rules (e.g. the "cash waiting" example listed under #3).
A good suggestion that I like is for having users fill out their profile. We've all seen some examples of scammers who have used this forum in the last couple of years....anything reasonable to help combat that would be worthwhile.

Sean
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The rules and guidelines on corvetteforum.com are a bit much.

I did not mean to imply all or even any of these should be instituted here, just food for thought.

The user's profile being filled out before you can post something for sale is my #1 choice. Your profile does not have to be filled out for general use of the forum, just if you post items for sale.
If you are a dealer that financially supports the forum you are allowed to post.
Without paid advertising these forums could not exist.
or1pkt said:
I like the idea of just having private sellers on AZ, not all these dealers with big websites full of cues, dont get me wrong if your a dealer good for you, but many on here that are cue shopping are looking for a fair price, and not looking to pay a premium top dollar like you find on most if not all dealer sites
Click to expand...
I think you misread that rule - it disallows dealers who are not advertisers on the forum to post items for sale. Private sellers are encouraged to post, that's what it is for.
Dealers who pay for advertising on the forum are allowed to post. Their advertising dollars are what keep this and other public forums up and running.
Bishop said:
Some of that is good and some of it is just far to much and complicated to police.

I think for the most part things go smoothly here but from time to time you get the yahoo that wants to belittle your product or just start an argument for no good reason other than to screw with your sale.

Rule number one should be: Respect the sellers thread as if he were conducting business right in front of you. Don't flame on someones personal business publically. We have PMs here.
Today 11:05 AM
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Amen to that.
 
In this day and age I thought a couple of things might help the sale and buying of cues:

~A 2-3 second video of a ball being struck so that the buyer can see that there is no rattle or other alarming sounds. Also allows people to get a feel for the hit of the cue by hearing it first.

~Showing a video of the cue from a worm's eye view being rolled at 3 different points: midway down the shaft, at the joint and at either the middle or the top of the wrap. That way you can see that the cue rolls well at every major point to put the buyer at ease.

If they can plaster videos of little girls all over MySpace and whatnot, why not use the same technology to help sell cues? I know when I buy a cue there are two factors that you can't see over the internet (yet): if it's straight and how it hits. With these suggestions I think you can get a much better picture of the cue you are thinking of purchasing.

What do you guys think?
 
or1pkt said:
I would define fair price as selling a cue for a reasonable price and or profit, versus many dealers who are selling cues more as a job/career so they must get maximum profit. In my opinion most dealers only make it cause they have a bigger selection of high end cues and they expose themselves to a lot of folks that have money to burn, Dealers also do consignment type deals which is almost like making free money.
Click to expand...

Here is the great misconception involving dealers...

If I have a Mottey, Capone, Rubino, Webb etc.. and its a "new" cue, I am contractually obligated, even if its only orally, to maintain new cue pricing. Only after a certain amount of show time am I allowed to lower the price. It's not about money to burn, it might be about not waiting 1 yr, 2 yrs, 7 yrs, etc.. its about having the money to layout initially.

On the secondary market, there really is not set rule. You get what you can get, period. Its just like a private seller. He will get what he can get, thats the law of the jungle. It's like this there are alot of deals that can be made with dealers if you're not uptight and afraid to approach the dealer. Example, if I am into a cue for $800.00 and I list if for 1500.00 (knowing I am going to haggle, this is a given) if I have it a while and you offer me 1000 you're probably going to get the cue. If its a premium cue a dealer won't be as apt to bargain. But then again, neither is a private seller. There is no real difference to buying used cues.

As far as "free money" consignments. I really hope your kidding. What is a persons time worth to thoroughly inspect a cue, to photograph it, to do the web work and to answer all the questions? For what? 10%. C'mon, we do this as a favor to really good customers, and to show product. Same as all the other dealers. You'd be shocked to know how much is consigned vs what is actually owned. There are a few Kings of Konsignment, you'll see them right away. But again, I think people are afraid to ask, make dealers offers, it never hurts.

JV
 
RobTN said:
I vote leave things alone.
Click to expand...


I agree Rob.. For one, Taking away best offers and the link in to ebay is taking away the sellers right to sell how they wish to.
 
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