Rules regarding 3 consecutive fouls in 8 ball?

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PoolSharkAllen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does three consecutive fouls in 8-ball constitute a loss of game? Different players that I've played with have their own interpretation of this.

Under the IPT, I believe this is a loss of game. What's the BCA ruling on this?
 
In 9-ball or 10-ball, 3 consecutive fouls results in loss of game, provided you warned your opponent that he was on two fouls.

When I looked at the BCA rules for 8-ball there was no specific mention of the 3 fouls in a row rule so I would say the answer is no. It is also not addressed in the general rules.
 
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PoolSharkAllen said:
The 2006 rules appear to have been replaced with the newest version:
http://home.bca-pool.com/associations/7744/files/Fouls_January2008.pdf

Why does section 6.14 on three consecutive fouls apply to 9-ball but not to 8-ball?
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I didn't know they changed the rules...although there don't appear to be any changes. I don't think 3-fouls has ever been a part of 8-ball. In 9-ball and one-pocket it results as a loss. In 14.1, 3-fouls is only penalized with the loss of a rack.
 
There is a player that I play with who frequently commits intentional fouls when he is in trouble at the table. The intentional fouls may include pocketing my balls, or creating clusters, or moving my balls out of position. If the three consecutive fouls can't be applied here, can he lose the game under section 6.16 due to unsportsmanlike conduct?


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6.16 Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly.
 
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PoolSharkAllen said:
There is a player that I play with who frequently commits intentional fouls when he is in trouble at the table. The intentional fouls may include pocketing my balls, or creating clusters, for example. If the three consecutive fouls can't be applied here, can he lose the game under section 6.16 due to unsportsmanlike conduct?


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6.16 Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly.
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Nope. Intentional fouling is a strategic part of the game. There are times in all pool games where you might want to foul rather than disturb clusters by attempting a legal hit. There are times when you might want to create clusters. Pocketing your opponent's balls may decrease the chance of a run-out and also might be a sound strategy.
 
WOW how the game has changed when I first started playing in the late 50's--early 60's if you intentionaly played a safety it was looked down on as bad sportsmanship. Now it has become the most important part of the game.
 
Drew said:
Nope. Intentional fouling is a strategic part of the game. There are times in all pool games where you might want to foul rather than disturb clusters by attempting a legal hit. There are times when you might want to create clusters. Pocketing your opponent's balls may decrease the chance of a run-out and also might be a sound strategy.
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The strategy of a player taking an unlimited number of consecutive fouls appears to me to be taking advantage of a glaring omission in the rules.
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
The strategy of a player taking an unlimited number of consecutive fouls appears to me to be taking advantage of a glaring omission in the rules.
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Assuming it's a bad strategy, it should be easy to beat him, so why worry about it?

If it's just playing for fun, then don't play him again.
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
The strategy of a player taking an unlimited number of consecutive fouls appears to me to be taking advantage of a glaring omission in the rules.
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Does that really upset you? I would LOVE to play someone who gives me BIH multiple times during a game. Use it against him!:thumbup:
 
easy-e said:
Does that really upset you? I would LOVE to play someone who gives me BIH multiple times during a game. Use it against him!:thumbup:
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Yes sir. Most times I would welcome for them to play safe or give me BIH. They can't win if they are not running out.
 
Suddenly I feel old.... There used to be three consecutive foul rule in 8-ball aswell. It was removed app 15 yeras ago. I remember playing with this rule in the Norwegian ranking tournaments and we always followed the wpa official rules.

It was removed for many reason, but mainly because a lot of players focused on the safety shots instead of clearing the table. This made every match go on forever and ever and ever.. One guy I played would do a safety shot even with BIH and two balls left on the table.. I am so glad the rule is gone:)

If you meet a player that only playes safetyshots and give you BIH, play a safety shot back. Sooner or later he will stop and play 8-ball instead.
 
In general, I too would love to have unlimited BIH opportunities. On a wide open table, giving an opponent BIH can often result in a win.

However, there are certain situations in 8-ball that are much more difficult to deal with, even with BIH. Some of the scenarios below should illustrate the complexity of trying to win when your opponent is taking deliberate fouls.

One situation would be for the opponent to deliberately take an intentional foul and hit my ball into his group of balls or hit my ball or his ball into the 8-ball, thus creating a new cluster of balls where none existed before. Clusters of balls along the rails can be especially difficult to deal with.

If a cluster-busting ball isn't readily available, the classic solution to dealing with clusters is to reposition another ball from my group into the vicinity of the cluster. However, when I do that, my opponent will frequently take an intentional foul by moving my ball away from the cluster. At other times, my opponent may take a foul by intentionally pocketing my ball that's I've tried to reposition into the vicinity of the cluster. If the game is winding down and there are only a small number of balls in my group to work with, my options for repositioning a cluster busting ball into the vicinity of the cluster may suddenly become very limited.

If my ball and his ball are tied up along the rails, with BIH I may try to gently hit my ball first to separate the balls along the rails. In turn, he may then take a deliberate foul by hitting my ball into his, thus creating a cluster again.

If the 8-ball is near a pocket, and my opponent takes a deliberate foul by clustering my ball into the 8, then that situation may require extra caution to avoid pocketing the 8 by accident.

If you haven't had to deal with an opponent who frequently takes deliberate fouls, you would be amazed at the complexity of trying to overcome the obstacles these unorthodox situations present.
 
If 8 ball had a three foul rule, I think it would get over used. In 8 ball, it seems it would be pretty easy to freeze the cueball behind one or a cluster of your own balls, but in 9-10 ball, it's a little harder to completely hide the cueball from a ball that both players have to make legal contact with first.

Me thinks things are fine the way they are. :D
 
phishman said:
WOW how the game has changed when I first started playing in the late 50's--early 60's if you intentionaly played a safety it was looked down on as bad sportsmanship.
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Did you play a lot of bar pool? That's the only place I've ever heard of this. That, and non-players in the pool room.
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
In general, I too would love to have unlimited BIH opportunities. On a wide open table, giving an opponent BIH can often result in a win.

However, there are certain situations in 8-ball that are much more difficult to deal with, even with BIH. Some of the scenarios below should illustrate the complexity of trying to win when your opponent is taking deliberate fouls.

One situation would be for the opponent to deliberately take an intentional foul and hit my ball into his group of balls or hit my ball or his ball into the 8-ball, thus creating a new cluster of balls where none existed before. Clusters of balls along the rails can be especially difficult to deal with.

If a cluster-busting ball isn't readily available, the classic solution to dealing with clusters is to reposition another ball from my group into the vicinity of the cluster. However, when I do that, my opponent will frequently take an intentional foul by moving my ball away from the cluster. At other times, my opponent may take a foul by intentionally pocketing my ball that's I've tried to reposition into the vicinity of the cluster. If the game is winding down and there are only a small number of balls in my group to work with, my options for repositioning a cluster busting ball into the vicinity of the cluster may suddenly become very limited.

If my ball and his ball are tied up along the rails, with BIH I may try to gently hit my ball first to separate the balls along the rails. In turn, he may then take a deliberate foul by hitting my ball into his, thus creating a cluster again.

If the 8-ball is near a pocket, and my opponent takes a deliberate foul by clustering my ball into the 8, then that situation may require extra caution to avoid pocketing the 8 by accident.

If you haven't had to deal with an opponent who frequently takes deliberate fouls, you would be amazed at the complexity of trying to overcome the obstacles these unorthodox situations present.
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If you really have problem with these with all the BIH's you're getting, to me it seems you lack a lot of moves you can do with a BIH. I think you should take a closer look at countermoving him back. Usually you have a plethora of countermoves with a BIH without trying to run out the difficult predicament he left you. I love tying up his balls while opening up mine with a BIH against the type of player who thinks he can outmove me with deliberate fouls. With a BIH you should be able to make the exact same moves against him and even better ones, because you're the one getting all the BIH's. In matchup play with two skillful players, deliberate fouls rarely occur, especially in 8-ball.

Ine: I think I remember something like that in early 90's that there were 3 consecutive fouls in 8-ball. And look, you're not old, take a look at these guys talking about the 50's :rolleyes: :D
 
phishman said:
WOW how the game has changed when I first started playing in the late 50's--early 60's if you intentionaly played a safety it was looked down on as bad sportsmanship. Now it has become the most important part of the game.
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You can still find bars where safeties are frowned on,but then again so is dinking coffee and other outlandish behavior.


-quote-
The strategy of a player taking an unlimited number of consecutive fouls appears to me to be taking advantage of a glaring omission in the rules.

IMO the best player still wins this game.Getting 3 consecutive ball-in-hands a player should at the very least be able to gain an advantage in the lay of the balls.
 
ine...Here in the U.S.A. there has NEVER been a 3-foul rule for 8-ball...BCA or otherwise. It was arbitrarily added to the IPT rules, for those tournaments only.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

ine said:
Suddenly I feel old.... There used to be three consecutive foul rule in 8-ball aswell. It was removed app 15 yeras ago. I remember playing with this rule in the Norwegian ranking tournaments and we always followed the wpa official rules.

It was removed for many reason, but mainly because a lot of players focused on the safety shots instead of clearing the table. This made every match go on forever and ever and ever.. One guy I played would do a safety shot even with BIH and two balls left on the table.. I am so glad the rule is gone:)

If you meet a player that only playes safetyshots and give you BIH, play a safety shot back. Sooner or later he will stop and play 8-ball instead.
Click to expand...
 
-quote-
If my ball and his ball are tied up along the rails, with BIH I may try to gently hit my ball first to separate the balls along the rails. In turn, he may then take a deliberate foul by hitting my ball into his, thus creating a cluster again.

When this happens you may be able to use BIH to hit your ball into his,seperating them and sending his ball far from the CB,possibly even hooking your opponent.If you are playing some1 who can consistently move your ball accross the table to tie up his and not leave you a shot you may be playing some1 who is just to high in skill level.
 
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