S.A.M. Anyone use it? Does it really work?

[thrasher789]

On the face of it, this statement is ludicrous. Sorry, Thrasher, but it really is. If there were any system that put the ball in the middle of the pocket every time, and you knew it, you would be a fool not to use it.

Perhaps you were using a circular definition: If the ball goes in the center of the pocket, you are using the system correctly. That's true for any system, and is a totally worthless definition.

The golden system that all other systems can be judged against is the "corrected ghost ball system." It has two problems: determining the correction and landing the cue ball at the corrected ghost ball. But if you can do that, it really is perfect.

Haha I swear on my life Bob, if done correctly it is a center pocket hit but it is not the easiest system and there is alot of room for flaw, a respected pool instructer plans to do a video on it in the near future so keep your eyes peeled, I was and still am in disbelief at its uncanny accuracy if done correctly.

And when I mean center pocket I mean it. With the quarters system the ball varies which part of the pocket it goes into depending on the exact angle in comparison to what ball hit you are hitting. (A 27 and 33 degree cut are both half ball hits I believe but would go to different parts of the pocket under this system) while the system I am refering to, if done perfectly, hits dead center.

I can't say much more about it to be honest but if all goes well fairly soon it will be more clear as to what I am talking about. No offense taken if you still think I'm a kook Bob.

*And I've read multiple posts saying "go to a big money tournemant, enter it and use a system and when you win come promote it some more". After you understand some of the systems you will very very quickly recognize top pro's using them; don't be so quick to call BS.

 

[scottycoyote]

Can you contribute to the discussion by explaining it, or were you sworn to secrecy?

well bob i think theres been threads where it was gone into. No i wasnt sworn to secrecy but i have 2 problems in explaining it........1)i dont think i could explain it in enough detail to get my point across and do it justice, without some type of diagrams, pics, etc. In class I got it right away but there were several people who didnt understand it in person so in a forum is going to be hard to do.
2) i dont want to step on randy or cue-techs toes.....ive felt like theyve helped me alot, randys been an excellent instructor to me thru advanced and expert classes, and i dont want to partially give away something hes using in his class. If he said it was ok, or even better if he chose to explain it, id be chiming in.......but hes not.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Didn't you used to frequent the same pool hall as Hal? And didn't Hal offer you numerous times to show you?

Don't ask for it now when you had a chance to learn from the man who invented them.

Koop - back to not talking about aiming systems.

I doubt that Hal would say that SAM is one of his systems, but why don't you ask him?

And I have discussed several aiming systems with Hal, but we're not talking about them here, we are talking about SAM.

Do you know what SAM is?

 

[Cuebacca]

I have to admit I'm skeptical. However, I'm dying to know....

1) What (the heck) does S.A.M. stand for?? Someone said Secret Aiming Method, but Randy said its not secret. So now I'm not sure if that's what S.A.M. stands for anymore.

2) Do any of the players here, who swear by S.A.M. or another aiming system, play at a strong "A" level or above?

I can totally see how an aiming system would help a beginner, or perhaps even on certain low percentage shots for any player, but to imagine an "A" player, shortstop or pro using a system for most shots, is a real stretch to me.

I know that I don't know what I don't know, but I'd like to know the answers to 1 and 2 at least. Thanks.

By the way, I'm not trying to bash systems, or the instructors involved here. I'm sure they have a lot more important things to offer than the systems anyway. Just honestly wondering. Thanks.

 

[thrasher789]

Just to be clear I'm not trying to be aggressive about it, in fact I use what you would call ghost ball on almost every shot, all I'm saying is that I've seen this system in real life and I know it's not BS, I'm not sure what Hal call's this system but I learned it as the "holy grail" system Bob if you ever get the chance to ask Hal.

 

[TannerPruess]

1. S.A.M stands for Supplemental Aiming Method.
2. I am a decent shooter and I swear by S.A.M on most shots.

 

[randyg]

Read my words:

Once again I repeat.

S.A.M. (Supplemental Aiming Method) is a combination of three of the major aiming methods that are available to learn from.

S.A.M. is the aim point for the "ghost ball".
S.A.M. is in part "fractional aiming".
S.A.M. is part of a "mathamatical" formula.

S.A.M works if you want it to.
S.A.M doesn't work if you don't wnat it to.
S.A.M. is not a secret, but a method to improve a students winning statistics.

Yes, I studied from Hal Houle and S.A.M is part of what Hal taught me.

And there is no aiming system that can ever replace a poor stroke.....SPF=randyg

 

[Bob Jewett]

Ther was an article in Billiard Digest a while ago about a girl who went to Tim Simpsons Pool School who learned a similar system. Look it up.

TommyT~~~not sure if Tim Simpson is the right name

There is an instructor named Tom Simpson who is also one of the founders of "Elephant Balls" and was said to be the designated heir for Hal Houle's systems. You may have meant him. In any case I was not interested in a "similar system." I was interested in the specifics of SAM.

 

[Bob Jewett]

...
S.A.M. is not a secret, but a method to improve a students winning statistics.
...

OK. It's not a secret. Is anyone willing to describe it here? Randy has given you permission.

 

[thrasher789]

There is an instructor named Tom Simpson who is also one of the founders of "Elephant Balls" and was said to be the designated heir for Hal Houle's systems. You may have meant him. In any case I was not interested in a "similar system." I was interested in the specifics of SAM.

I learned the three aiming systems I know from Tom who learned them from Hal. I am not familiar with the exact specifications of S.A.M. but if it is just another name for the "quarters" system you could read Audra's column which simplifies the gist of that system in February's BD. (But all the system's are somewhat difficult to portray accurately in writing, the quarters one is about the only one that would make any sense at all if not learned straight from someone who knows it and can show you the proper mechanics)

 

[whitey2]

[...] In any case I was not interested in a "similar system." I was interested in the specifics of SAM.

Hi Bob,

Last night I was curious about this "Supplementary Aiming System" myself.
I did some web searching, and found some very useful information, but it's
hard to tell if it is exactly describing all details of that system. I have heard
that posting links to other forums can get you banned, and I do not want to be banned
from this forum, as there is some very good information here, and a great abundance of
participants.

I have never been a "fan" of any system other than the ghost ball with obvious compensations
for throw and the effects of a non-center cue ball hit. I don't know how many of the folks
that believe there is a small number of "cue ball to object ball angles" ever play serious
pool on tables with 4 inch pockets.

 

[randyg]

I have to admit I'm skeptical. However, I'm dying to know....

1) What (the heck) does S.A.M. stand for?? Someone said Secret Aiming Method, but Randy said its not secret. So now I'm not sure if that's what S.A.M. stands for anymore.

2) Do any of the players here, who swear by S.A.M. or another aiming system, play at a strong "A" level or above?

I can totally see how an aiming system would help a beginner, or perhaps even on certain low percentage shots for any player, but to imagine an "A" player, shortstop or pro using a system for most shots, is a real stretch to me.

I know that I don't know what I don't know, but I'd like to know the answers to 1 and 2 at least. Thanks.

By the way, I'm not trying to bash systems, or the instructors involved here. I'm sure they have a lot more important things to offer than the systems anyway. Just honestly wondering. Thanks.

Thanks CUEBACCA. I just posted those answers. By the way, I think most all pro's have a system, I'm not sure they could explain it though. After a while S.A.M. is just a feel, point and shoot. Also, I can email you quite a few "A" player who use this thing we call S.A.M.....Good luck,....randyg

 

[Cuebacca]

1. S.A.M stands for Supplemental Aiming Method.
2. I am a decent shooter and I swear by S.A.M on most shots.

Thanks, Tanner!

 

[Koop]

I doubt that Hal would say that SAM is one of his systems, but why don't you ask him?

And I have discussed several aiming systems with Hal, but we're not talking about them here, we are talking about SAM.

Do you know what SAM is?

You're right about one thing. SAM is not one of Hal's systems. It is, however, a bastardized version of his.

Funny, Hal told me that you NEVER spoke with him about his systems, although he did say he offered several times.

Bob, honestly, discussing aiming systems with you is a complete and utter waste of time. You have made it abundantly clear that you think they are nonsense and can drill holes into any one of them. So let's just, for the sake argument, agree you can drill holes in SAM as well. It is very easy to drill holes on the internet but it's another thing to watch an 80+ year old man shoot for 13 hours and never miss a ball, I mean not a single one.
Keep drilling but I for one will accept what Hal SHOWED me as reality and continue to use them every shot I take.

Respectfully,
Koop

 

[randyg]

You're right about one thing. SAM is not one of Hal's systems. It is, however, a bastardized version of his.

Funny, Hal told me that you NEVER spoke with him about his systems, although he did say he offered several times.

Bob, honestly, discussing aiming systems with you is a complete and utter waste of time. You have made it abundantly clear that you think they are nonsense and can drill holes into any one of them. So let's just, for the sake argument, agree you can drill holes in SAM as well. It is very easy to drill holes on the internet but it's another thing to watch an 80+ year old man shoot for 13 hours and never miss a ball, I mean not a single one.
Keep drilling but I for one will accept what Hal SHOWED me as reality and continue to use them every shot I take.

Respectfully,
Koop

AHMEN Brother..,.randyg

 

[Paul Mon]

You have every right to be skeptical. Having seen me miss more than my share of shots, both easy and hard. The truth of the matter is if my stroke was straight and true and I hit what I was aiming at and chose the right angle the shot would go in. Again, another variable is the english applied the the rock. I'm gonna stick with the system. I get more confident and am able to discern the angles better each day. This is not magic. It's science and as an engineer I'm surprised you can't see the value.

TommyT~~~~~looking for some magic

Tom,

If you like and believe in S.A.M. then by all means enjoy what it brings to your game. You’ve asked me if I wanted an explanation and I didn’t, at the time. I have spoken with Hal Houle a few times and believe that his system can help lots of people. I’ve read countless articles and threads about aiming systems and glean from them what seems to help me.

What I will not do is consciously employ an aiming system. I believe that it slows you down and prevents any tempo or “zone” from developing. I use aiming systems when I’m unsure of the correct hit or to cinch a key ball. I rely heavily on systems to bank and kick but still don’t use them probably more than 40% of the time.

Some people in this thread are asking why the professional S.A.M. instructors don’t take their sure–fire method and win pro tournaments? A few obvious conclusions are:

1. The method is not 100% accurate.
2. They still don’t know where the cue ball is going to end up.
3. They choke under pressure.

Now if someone can give me a system to guarantee final position of the cue ball I’d shave my a$$ and walk around backwards.

Paul

 

[JoeyA]

Hal Houle gets credit.

Read my words:

Once again I repeat.

S.A.M. (Supplemental Aiming Method) is a combination of three of the major aiming methods that are available to learn from.

S.A.M. is the aim point for the "ghost ball".
S.A.M. is in part "fractional aiming".
S.A.M. is part of a "mathamatical" formula.

S.A.M works if you want it to.
S.A.M doesn't work if you don't wnat it to.
S.A.M. is not a secret, but a method to improve a students winning statistics.

Yes, I studied from Hal Houle and S.A.M is part of what Hal taught me.

And there is no aiming system that can ever replace a poor stroke.....SPF=randyg

By golly Hal Houle, I hope you are reading this thread and taking your medication. Randy is giving you credit where credit is due.
JoeyA

 

[thrasher789]

Tom,

Some people in this thread are asking why the professional S.A.M. instructors don’t take their sure–fire method and win pro tournaments? A few obvious conclusions are:

1. The method is not 100% accurate.
2. They still don’t know where the cue ball is going to end up.
3. They choke under pressure.

Paul

Thank you. This is pretty much my point, the system works IF the player does it right. I could tell everyone on this board exactly how to do a system but not every player has a perfect straight stroke every time, knowledge of throw, knowledge of speed control, ect. which are all variables that every player has to deal with.

S in S.A.M. meaning supplemental is absolutely perfect becuase it doens't rule or own your game but gives generously to it if correctly used, but S.A.M. isn't the most unbelievable system Hal figured and some of them are absultuely weird and only believed if seen in person.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Nothing worse than a used car salesman when you need a pre-owned car.

I have to quote OZ here, "you don't know what you don't know!

Name some pros that you have taught. And I meant you guys need the 7ball in knowledge of the game from Bob Jewett. It was a retort for you telling him to "come to school" or something like that (which was an insult IMO). And Bob plays STRONG. I wouldn't be surprised if you really did need the 7!

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Funny, Hal told me that you NEVER spoke with him about his systems, although he did say he offered several times.

That's not true. He asked once that I recall, and we had a good long discussion over a table (I believe it was at Room With A Cue). Probably prior to 2002.

Bob, honestly, discussing aiming systems with you is a complete and utter waste of time. You have made it abundantly clear that you think they are nonsense and can drill holes into any one of them.

If that's what you've gotten from what I've said, we have failed to communicate. I commonly teach seven or eight aiming systems. I write about them frequently. (In places that are on-line and available for free.) But I also need to know their limitations. Most people cannot or will not look critically at things, and specifically at things they like or have made themselves.

It is very easy to drill holes on the internet but it's another thing to watch an 80+ year old man shoot for 13 hours and never miss a ball, I mean not a single one. ...

But so far as I know, SAM is not one of Hal's systems. Does he say that it is? In any case, I believe that Hal's 70 years of experience has a lot more to do with him pocketing a lot of balls than the many systems he has. And frankly, I don't believe no ball missed in 13 hours. I just don't believe it. Must be a case of mesmerization.