Sandbaggers and how do u beat them?

If he keeps winning I think it will catch up to him. If he goes out of the area and plays in a tournament he may get disqualified.

You are both 5's. You are 5's for a reason. Usually it is because you are not good enough to be a 6 or a 7. Why? Because you miss easy shots, bad positioning, can't control the CB etc. We all miss simple shots. The pros do it. I have done it with BIH and I have seen a lot of better players than I am do the same. Missing a easy shot happens because you don't respect it or you are concentrating more on getting position than making the shot.

If both of you are 5's than you have to lose or win 4 games. If you lost 4 straight to this guy because of his "sandbagging" than something is wrong. I don't know how the other games went but if it only happened once during the match it might be honest.
 
tigerallenyim said:
Im a strong SL5 in 8 and 9 and came across a player who is definitely sandbagging in a measure of this:

The opponet would intentionally miss an easy shot leaving me with not much of a saftey option and not much of an offensive shot, and basically if I screw up, the oppoenent has the advantage... basically like having all the pockets blocked with the opponents balls.

The reason why I say the opponent is a sandbagger is because:
1. Intentionally missing the shot instead of running out.
2. When the opponent does intentionally miss, the opponent claims it is not a safety, therefore it doesn't get marked, and because the opponent is the captain, it is hard to be arguementative when I am just the player. My captain is aware of this. But I am certain we have all been here before, u can yell "Sandbagger" all u want, but it won't do much.
Click to expand...


IMO the bolded part is not sandbagging. To me that is smart 8ball. Not going for the run out can be the absolute best move in 8ball. It comes down to percents. I will intentionally miss easy shots all the time and do exactly what you descibed (with the exception of saying it wasn't a safety) to increase my % of winning the game.

Him saying it wasn't a safe is wrong. The opposing team can mark it however they want. Just be sure to mark it as a safe on your sheet.
 
Part of the problem with "Sandbagging" is that players are evaluating others play and determining sandbagging yet are not capable of making the distinguishment.
You state you are a "strong 5". IMO if this statement is true then you should walk through a 5 that is sandbagging. Afterall he is giving you more attempts at playing YOUR game.

Thinking about it this way...
I am a SL9. I average X number of balls per trip to the table. Now I make 7 in a row then crap in a ball. This extra trip gives me another chance to run my average. The other guy doesnt have this chance.

Theres rarely a time when you cant return a safe or take a two way shot.
Heck just miss leaving him straight and say to him there you go I know you are going to run out. If he is "truely" and I stress truely sandbagging he will give you another chance and you are back even.

There are true sandbaggers but for it to really matter it needs to be bigger than two SLs to make a difference.

Afterall if your playing 9ball and he gives you 7-10 balls you should be winning. In 8ball if the players gives a game away then you are one game closer.


As for the misses and safes. If you and your captain believe a guy missed on purpose then write it down. But make sure you just dont have him pegged a little higher in your brain.

I also love a guy that rates themselves a "strong _____". I had a SL4 tell me last week that another player was a STRONG 7 in nine ball but not quite an 8. I laughed and wondered how the hell would he know.
 
tigerallenyim said:
Im a strong SL5 in 8 and 9 and came across a player who is definitely sandbagging in a measure of this:

The opponet would intentionally miss an easy shot leaving me with not much of a saftey option and not much of an offensive shot, and basically if I screw up, the oppoenent has the advantage... basically like having all the pockets blocked with the opponents balls.

The reason why I say the opponent is a sandbagger is because:
1. Intentionally missing the shot instead of running out.
2. When the opponent does intentionally miss, the opponent claims it is not a safety, therefore it doesn't get marked, and because the opponent is the captain, it is hard to be arguementative when I am just the player. My captain is aware of this. But I am certain we have all been here before, u can yell "Sandbagger" all u want, but it won't do much.

The arguement here is not that I dislike Sandbaggers (which I do), i just need to know how to win at this. Everytime I have played this opponent, I simply realized it much later.

Btw, this is in APA.

Any inputs welcomed.

Thanks.

Respectfully,
Tiger
Click to expand...

If I think someone is sandbagging I'll run and gun. If I can't run all the way out I'll make what is open. If I make 6 or 7 and force them to play smart or run out to beat me, odds are they'll make a mistake trying to get too 'cute' while trying not to show too much. Especially if you leave balls that are tied up with theirs.

Another thing, most 'sandbaggers' aren't as good as they think they are so it's relatively easy to trap them. If they have to run out 6 to win the match after dogging and messing around the whole night they are apt to miss or goof up position. Especially if they need to run it out like a 4 or 5 would :) By that I mean using only top or bottom english, leaving themselves only extremely easy shots that they *can't* miss and looking lucky doing it, can only play safe if it looks like a shot, acting drunk, using a bad bridge or not running more than 3 balls, etc...

In short, the limitations they are placing on their game are their weakness. Even if a 5 is really a 7, it's pretty tough for a 7 to win as a seven while trying to look like a 5.

Once I started looking at it like that, I started hoping I would run into sandbaggers :D

~rc
 
doitforthegame said:
Why do you care if he is sandbagging? Someone said it in an earlier post...play your game, don't show fear (whining and faces about how unfairrrrr it is) and take control. If hides you, kick it and show no emotion. Hit or not. They are too afraid to fail so they try to hide their true speed. Go after them and they fold like a house of cards. All of a sudden they make mistakes, and THEY start whining.....
Click to expand...


Exactly.

I sandbag all the time, until regionals and further. The key is keep your innings up, win when necessary, loose when the outcome doesnt matter.

In other words, against teams that are absolute bottom of the list and losing to them will not make a difference in standing...loose.

You can still play full speed when you are playing a top team. Coming in first in the league means you really dont understand the system.

The goal is to win enough games to reach the playoffs.

Means to an end.

ken
 
Ken_4fun said:
Exactly.

I sandbag all the time, until regionals and further. The key is keep your innings up, win when necessary, loose when the outcome doesnt matter.

In other words, against teams that are absolute bottom of the list and losing to them will not make a difference in standing...loose.

You can still play full speed when you are playing a top team. Coming in first in the league means you really dont understand the system.

The goal is to win enough games to reach the playoffs.

Means to an end.

ken
Click to expand...

Congratulations! Folks like you are what's wrong with APA and why a lot of people have given up on it.
 
ScottW said:
Congratulations! Folks like you are what's wrong with APA and why a lot of people have given up on it.
Click to expand...


And I wonder about those of you that brag about being a SL7.....the goal is to be a SL3-4, maybe SL5.

SL3 Ken
 
Honestly, the best and fastest way to beat Sandbaggers is to beat them over the head with a shovel.......dont tell them I told you to though! :thumbup:
 
Ken_4fun said:
I sandbag all the time, until regionals and further. The key is keep your innings up, win when necessary, loose when the outcome doesnt matter.
Click to expand...

You are bragging about intentionally cheating? You move balls around when people have there backs turned too? steal the tip money I leave on the table for the waitress?

WTF, forget the fact that people like you are ruining the APA... people like you that would sell their integrity in a "gentleman's game" for a couple tickets to Vegas are whats wrong with a he11 of a lot more than the APA. It's pretty fuxing disgusting that you would openly admit to cheating as a mean to an end. Yeah, it's a means to an end, it should be a means to the end of whatever dignity you claim to have had.

And don't give me that "don't hate the players, hate the system" bullspit either... yeah the system dangles a temptation to donate your principles as a means to gain an advantage... It speaks volumes for who you are as a person that you are the first in line to ante up.
 
Im not being holyer than thou, I certainly am not. Don't think that I havent been tempted to do exactly what you boast to do regularly... and I have let the thought go through my head and I do understand the system... in the end, after I told my teams how the system works and how to mainpulate it... I found myself sick and very angry at myself for spoiling something pure for myself and my teammates.

[/rant]
 
Last edited:
Scott Lee said:
Believe it or not, the APA contract with league operators, has a clause in it that allows the parent company to "rescind" the franchise...with NO COMPENSATION...if it is determined that the l.o. is acting outside the parameters of the overall organization, or doing something outright illegal. So to say that nothing can be done about bad league operators is akin to saying a black man could never be president here. It took a lot of work, by a lot of people, who cared...but the job did get done, in the long run.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

He isn't a black man, technically he's half black and half white, and I think the Indians have a name for that.
 
Beware_of_Dawg said:
You are bragging about intentionally cheating? You move balls around when people have there backs turned too? steal the tip money I leave on the table for the waitress?

WTF, forget the fact that people like you are ruining the APA... people like you that would sell their integrity in a "gentleman's game" for a couple tickets to Vegas are whats wrong with a he11 of a lot more than the APA. It's pretty fuxing disgusting that you would openly admit to cheating as a mean to an end. Yeah, it's a means to an end, it should be a means to the end of whatever dignity you claim to have had.

And don't give me that "don't hate the players, hate the system" bullspit either... yeah the system dangles a temptation to donate your principles as a means to gain an advantage... It speaks volumes for who you are as a person that you are the first in line to ante up.
Click to expand...

Well said. I find the concept of cheating in something as trivial as an 8-ball league to be the epitome of pathetic.

-Andrew
 
While I'm glad folks are bashing someone for sandbagging in the APA, but I hafta laugh that it's a given to expect someone to stall/bag games to look to make money in action. Sure, that's part of the game...tradition. Hustling is an artform etc. etc. etc. It's laughable that it's SO dishonest to hide your speed in league and yet admirable how roadies made their money in the past and present...WOW!! I don't condone either...I'd rather see everyone play all out all the time, but I realize we don't have an idealistic society and accept it.

SOLUTION: play all out all the time, and don't give a $ h i t less what your opponent is doing!!
 
trustyrusty said:
While I'm glad folks are bashing someone for sandbagging in the APA, but I hafta laugh that it's a given to expect someone to stall/bag games to look to make money in action. Sure, that's part of the game...tradition. Hustling is an artform etc. etc. etc. It's laughable that it's SO dishonest to hide your speed in league and yet admirable how roadies made their money in the past and present...WOW!! I don't condone either...I'd rather see everyone play all out all the time, but I realize we don't have an idealistic society and accept it.

SOLUTION: play all out all the time, and don't give a $ h i t less what your opponent is doing!![/QUOTE]

I totally agree...:smile:
Click to expand...
 
trustyrusty said:
While I'm glad folks are bashing someone for sandbagging in the APA, but I hafta laugh that it's a given to expect someone to stall/bag games to look to make money in action. Sure, that's part of the game...tradition. Hustling is an artform etc. etc. etc. It's laughable that it's SO dishonest to hide your speed in league and yet admirable how roadies made their money in the past and present...WOW!! I don't condone either...I'd rather see everyone play all out all the time, but I realize we don't have an idealistic society and accept it.

SOLUTION: play all out all the time, and don't give a $ h i t less what your opponent is doing!!
Click to expand...

In any handicapped league (see your wedge in the avatar :D ), playing out all the time while your competition is sandbagging isn't the answer....the answer is eliminating sandbaggers.....it's against the rules, as well as the spirit of the rules....and people in the APA aren't hustlers - most are just regular, hardworking folks that just want a night out with their friends....if they win great, if they lose who cares, but they play to win.....and if they win a trip to Vegas, even better........BUT, when they see cheaters rewarded for that behavior, they quit.....they lose, the league loses, as well as the bar and pool itself.....some just quit altogether....

In APA, the baggers are usually easy to spot....they have all been on the same team for years, the 3's easily play as a 5 when they focus, and the 4's play as 6's.....I'm guessing you are a fellow golfer, and if so, you know exactly how important it is to play by the rules at all times, especially in regards to handicapping.....people who use a footwedge or mark doubles as pars......they are usually a joke among their peers and word spreads quick.....

I'm not trying to bag on you, but I definitely disagree....sandbagging is not OK.....in the movies, the hero overcomes the odds and the bad news bears win, but that is a rarity in real life - an SL3 (who should be a 5) that plays a real SL5 has the odds stacked against them and will lose most of the time....
 
trustyrusty said:
While I'm glad folks are bashing someone for sandbagging in the APA, but I hafta laugh that it's a given to expect someone to stall/bag games to look to make money in action. Sure, that's part of the game...tradition. Hustling is an artform etc. etc. etc. It's laughable that it's SO dishonest to hide your speed in league and yet admirable how roadies made their money in the past and present...WOW!! I don't condone either...I'd rather see everyone play all out all the time, but I realize we don't have an idealistic society and accept it.

SOLUTION: play all out all the time, and don't give a $ h i t less what your opponent is doing!!
Click to expand...

Honestly, I dont play leagues. Havent for years, and years....I made the comment to spur conversation.

My point about leagues is dont take it too seriously. All sports (bowling, golf, etc) where there is handicap there is some form of manulation by those who are successful.

I have said it before and I think it is the best subject on league players. My friend here 1on1pooltourneys, said it to me about league players.

HE SAID IT AND HAD NEVER PLAYED LEAGUES...HE IS JUST A YOUNG MAN OF ABOUT 24 OR SO, AND I AM AN OLD FART OF 45. BUT HONESTLY, I WAS IMPRESSED WITH HIS OBSERVATION.

He is by far the best player in town. He could get any SL7 the 8 and rob them. But he said the time he spends in the only pool hall in town he never seens league players practicing, gambling, taking lessons, etc. What he sees the majority of their time is used to manilate the skill levels to achieve the goal. ......... The goal of the league players isnt to become a better player.

Wow interesting observation.

Ken
 
nah, weeding out sandbagers in leagues will kill nearly half of the participants, so I say let 'em be.

I do have a few guys in a golf league that can bag with the best of 'em. I am the only 0 handicap in the league (9 holes) with a 37.2 scoring average, and the 2 I'm talking about I should give 2-3 strokes to....they like that I give them 5. I don't care. I played one once and shot 34 to his 40 and he griped about me being a 0 instead of a + handicap...laughable. Some people just don't like an even matchup (read: need to have an advantage), and that's fine....no heart, but fine. If they do win, what's that trophy, plaque, or whatever, really mean anyway. I'd rather earn it, and if I can do that over the cheaters on top of it....GREAT!
 
Sorry, I'm a newbie and a rookie, the reason you call them sandbaggers, is it because they are like sand bags in war and they stop the shots from going where they are designated to go (into your enemy)? Ok, you guys can continue the conversation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top