Sandbaggers on APA Regionals
- Thread starter Guerra Cues
- Start date
APA sucks
I played APA 8ball for a year or two many years ago, and not only did I get tired of playing sandbaggers, but I got tired of sandbagging to remain a 6. Heck, it was a battle to convince my team to let me jump up to a 6, but I simply did not enjoy playing as a 4 or 5. I also got tired of watching the "magical adjustments" to handicaps that happened pretty regularly, thanks to our APA organizers and the "handicap review committee."
So I moved on to BCA. I liked that the BCA handicaps kept the weekly play competitive (if you're a team player), but that any upper level tournaments were just that - upper level. I also like the BCA rules much better.
I played APA 8ball for a year or two many years ago, and not only did I get tired of playing sandbaggers, but I got tired of sandbagging to remain a 6. Heck, it was a battle to convince my team to let me jump up to a 6, but I simply did not enjoy playing as a 4 or 5. I also got tired of watching the "magical adjustments" to handicaps that happened pretty regularly, thanks to our APA organizers and the "handicap review committee."
So I moved on to BCA. I liked that the BCA handicaps kept the weekly play competitive (if you're a team player), but that any upper level tournaments were just that - upper level. I also like the BCA rules much better.
bestkites said:
And I am playing BCA and you rarelly see sand bagging, specially on money leagues. Since BCA leagues gives money back to the players, it is one of the reasons why everybody really tries to perform to get the biggest amount of cash possible at the end of the season.
bestkites said:
I also think part of this is due to the BCA allowing pretty much anybody to run a BCA sanctioned league. Whereas with the APA, it's a franchise deal - and those franchisees pay money for exclusive rights to their area.
That said, the APA LOs generally have many more players in their leagues than your average BCA league-running guy, which means lots more work, which often means it's work on the level of a full-time job, which means they have to make a living somehow. Most BCA league operators, as best I can tell (and correct me if I'm wrong) run one, maybe two divisions, one/two nights a week, often in the same room (i.e. low travel costs), and spend a tiny fraction of the time handling their leagues than their larger APA counterparts.
Plus, in my limited BCA experience, the BCA leagues cost more ($10/week vs. my old APA league which was $5/week). I'm sure league costs for both types vary regionally.
That said, I figure it's easier for one guy running one league night a week, collecting more cash per week per player, to give more back at the end of the session than it is for your average APA LO.
Welcome to the APA!
I am an APA 7 playing in the Chicago area, unfortunately I beleive that the APA with its "equalizer" handicap system is responsible for the most part. Thats the way the league is designed.
It's all based on the numbers and not the talent of the players. Wether you are taking part in singles events or in the team competitions, if you don't have a couple of players on your roster who have the ability to play above their handicap, more than likely you will never make it out of the COC or Citywide tournaments.
In the APA, the prizes don't go to the most talented players. They go to the teams who can manipulate their numbers the best! On most teams, this means controling the wins and losses (winning %) of each individual player on your roster at all skill levels, with the exception of your 7s, because they arn't going anywhere anyway.
I have been playing APA for several years now , and it has been the same on every team. You see teams getting furious because your "sandbaggers" beat their "sandbaggers". Some people will call this cheating. I call it the nature of the beast that was created by and has become the APA!! Just my 2 cents.
I am an APA 7 playing in the Chicago area, unfortunately I beleive that the APA with its "equalizer" handicap system is responsible for the most part. Thats the way the league is designed.
It's all based on the numbers and not the talent of the players. Wether you are taking part in singles events or in the team competitions, if you don't have a couple of players on your roster who have the ability to play above their handicap, more than likely you will never make it out of the COC or Citywide tournaments.
In the APA, the prizes don't go to the most talented players. They go to the teams who can manipulate their numbers the best! On most teams, this means controling the wins and losses (winning %) of each individual player on your roster at all skill levels, with the exception of your 7s, because they arn't going anywhere anyway.
I have been playing APA for several years now , and it has been the same on every team. You see teams getting furious because your "sandbaggers" beat their "sandbaggers". Some people will call this cheating. I call it the nature of the beast that was created by and has become the APA!! Just my 2 cents.
Difference between APA & BCA
APA= Drinkers that like to play pool.
BCA= Pool players that like to drink.
LOL!!!!!!
APA= Drinkers that like to play pool.
BCA= Pool players that like to drink.
LOL!!!!!!
News From APA
Well, with about 3000 views about time that this caught APA attention. Spoke with an APA official and they will be reading the pages on this post.
Well, with about 3000 views about time that this caught APA attention. Spoke with an APA official and they will be reading the pages on this post.
The one thing that is funny is that I have played about 35 matches in the APA and I have lost 4 times. I have never lost in 8-ball (I am a 7) and I am 20-4 in 9-ball (I am a 9) and last week for example I beat an 8 75-20. Yet I have never won a thing. I don't mind because I enjoy it but I can see myself tearing guys up week after week and get nothing but about 30 of those little break and run patches. I just think it is kinda odd.
Robbie said:
Dont be getting all technical on me! 4........ 5........ same deal. haha.
I was actually on the sheet as a 4 and declared myself as a 5 because thats what my league sheet said this past week. So I played on the SL4 board as an SL5.
But really, if you pumped all my scores into the computer, it spits out 4. I was bumped up because of the 'handicap review commitee' IE Danielle, Charles and with a great email from a guy who was on my own team, Andrew saying I am apparently a 6 from Orangeville....... Orangeville?!?!?! So, all that combined along with certain lovely people from Sunday who have nothing better to do with their time than complain about everyone elses handicaps all the while dogging easy shots to try and keep theirs low.
Not sure about you but its a long drive to Orangeville to play league every week, dont think Id make it.
Now, I just show up and play. Numbers work on their own, no need to ask questions or complain about anything. NOTHING is ever done. My attempt at a joke was maybe taken the wrong way.
I've never had time or inclination to join a league - mostly because of the sandbagger issue. I don't know squat about APA vs. BCA etc. I've had several people ask me to join the local league including both organizers. keep in mind I show up 1-2 hours a week MAX. One said because I've never been in league I'd start as a 4. The other said that because he's seen me play there before, He'd rate me a 6. WTF?! I look at the board and 90% are 4s and 5s, a few 6s and a handful of 7-8s. I've seen most of the league players play in passing, and I'd say that they are above a 4 or 5 level (if i'm indeed a 6). I'm all for meeting the challenge of being a 6. but I don't think I need the frustration of playing someone who is equally skilled getting ball spotted and shooting to a lower count. That's FnBS! They also said that most teams wouldn't need/want me and want higher HC to play than low HC players 
someone explain this one to me? Is the organizer telling me that for sandbagging purposes they don't want skilled players?
rant over.
someone explain this one to me? Is the organizer telling me that for sandbagging purposes they don't want skilled players? rant over.
APA cheaper???
Nowhere I've been has cheaper league fees for APA than BCA.
The APA does operate like a franchise, and the organizer in Atlanta is, IMHO, a greedy MF that treats his "customers" like crap.
Nowhere I've been has cheaper league fees for APA than BCA.
The APA does operate like a franchise, and the organizer in Atlanta is, IMHO, a greedy MF that treats his "customers" like crap.
ScottW said:
Ya know...if you suck bad enough,sandbagging just isn't an option lol.
Been playing APA 8ball for many years and was team cappy for most of em.
Our whole team has always and will forever be trying to win every freakin game.
We need all we can get.
Perhaps I'm on the only honest team out there.....
Or as this thread contends...we are the lambs fighting our way to the slaughter house of closet sixes and sevens in four's clothing...
We have a blast most league nights regardless...and we do so while playing for the outs and the wins.
Been playing APA 8ball for many years and was team cappy for most of em.
Our whole team has always and will forever be trying to win every freakin game.
We need all we can get.
Perhaps I'm on the only honest team out there.....
Or as this thread contends...we are the lambs fighting our way to the slaughter house of closet sixes and sevens in four's clothing...
We have a blast most league nights regardless...and we do so while playing for the outs and the wins.
raybo147 said:
This post is all about "I". You miss the point entirely. APA is about TEAM and PEOPLE. I have a similar record to you (as a 9 also), and I spent months teaching an SL2 who joined my team with a 4-18 lifetime record. When she won an HLT event to go to the Regionals, she run up to me, jumped in my arms, and was so happy she was in tears. It was our hard work together that made her dream come true. I was so immensely proud of her that I had tears in my eyes too. Forget your "I'm 30-0 what's the point of this", and start passing your wisdom, experience and time to those that would love to learn from you. You'll get a wonderful feeling as they start improving and developing a passion and excitement for the game.
We kinda lost touch for a while, but she called me two weeks ago when she reached SL4, and I felt proud of her all over again. She now plays three times a week, loves the game, and says that she still wants me to be proud of her. She says she still instinctively looks around the room to see if I saw her make a good shot, even though we don't play in the same League anymore.
This is why I play APA.
hobokenapa said:
And none of that is possible in BCA, TAP, etc? Interesting. Maybe sandbagging isn't so big in your area, but in Atlanta, it's all about maintaining your handicap, which simply ruins the game. After jumping to BCA, I enjoyed the matches much better and saw more of a point to teaching, since you're allowed to get better without "losing your edge."
As far was what was said about training players, APA allows for coaching which BCA doesn't. There are many instances where that training can be extremely valuable. Whereas in BCA if you see someone attempting something bone-headed, all you can do is watch them do it. Then when you talk about it with them afterwards, it often turns quite useless because they often become argumentative and just defend their boneheaded shot, or it becomes argumentative and they both disagree about the ball layout making the conversation totally useless. End result, they continue to play that way anyway and don't get any better. A good timeout, coach, and allowing the player a chance to execute it on the spot (without argument of how the balls are laid out) can be a very effective learning experience. And when they play it right, and get immediate feedback for the positive effects, then this really ingrains in them the right way of playing. This encourages lower level players to get out of that ball banger, I can make any and every thing mentality, and instead head down a path of being coachable and trainable.Rumplestiltskin said:
Of course some people can try to turn this into a semantical argument, which often happens. But the main point, is good coaching and training can be a valuable tool for lesser players to learn a better way of playing the game.