sandbagging
- Thread starter lorider
- Start date
lol. i always thought that also.
i dont know all the details yet. just heard people talking about it tonight at league.
i used to play on a bca team with one of the players involved, have played against one other thats involved a few times. i never thought they hid their speed. i am not familiar with the others on that team, they have been playing in a different division lately.
every one i heard discussing it was pretty ticked off. heard a lot of comments about it made our league look bad.
Eh it happens
Some of it is on purpose. At the same time some of it is that person playing well and the other person dismissing it as sandbagging and not blaming themselves for not getting the job done. It's much easier to say "Oh I lost because I played a bagger" instead of saying "I lost because they played better".
Had a girl on my team a year or so ago play fantastic at the Cities. The girl she played immediately went to the LO and complained and they raised her up to a 4. What she didn't tell the LO was that she gave BiH to her 3 times p/rack. That girl went on to lose all, but 2 matches she played in from November through June and didn't go back down. It amazes me that a person who screams bagger gets heard, but when I mentioned her record to bring her back down I didn't have an ear to tug on.
*edit*
I like APA, but some of the shenanigans happening in there aggravate me just like everyone else.
Some of it is on purpose. At the same time some of it is that person playing well and the other person dismissing it as sandbagging and not blaming themselves for not getting the job done. It's much easier to say "Oh I lost because I played a bagger" instead of saying "I lost because they played better".
Had a girl on my team a year or so ago play fantastic at the Cities. The girl she played immediately went to the LO and complained and they raised her up to a 4. What she didn't tell the LO was that she gave BiH to her 3 times p/rack. That girl went on to lose all, but 2 matches she played in from November through June and didn't go back down. It amazes me that a person who screams bagger gets heard, but when I mentioned her record to bring her back down I didn't have an ear to tug on.
*edit*
I like APA, but some of the shenanigans happening in there aggravate me just like everyone else.
i agree with you, sometimes people have a real good night. funny you mentioned your teamate during your cities. my gf who is a 2 had an oustanding cities also. she is the only one on our team who went undefeated during our cities.
she beat a 6 in 9 ball, i dont know how many points he had but the final score was her 20 and him 0. within 5 minutes every one in the tournament knew about that match and i mean every one. i cant tell you how many people came up to her talking about it. she was raised also and it took a while for her to come back down to her real level.
A six on a two is a tough match in some areas we play on rattle prone olhausens and if the 6 doesnt play carefully the 2 can get there points on jawed hangers so the 6 better play a careful match and safe if they need to fire a ball for the position they need for the next shot. It doesnt take to many hangers for a 2 to get their 19 points. That is a 46 to 19 race. The 6 needs at least 7 balls out of every rack.
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It happens every year. A couple of teams were DQ'd when I was out there in 09. There were more than 700 teams playing to put it in perspective.
If a player on a team has their handicap raised twice in Vegas the team stands a chance of DQ They get the same scrutiny if several players go up in handicap on the same team. I don't remember the exact criteria for DQ but it is spelled out clearly in the documentation the team gets when they register for the tourney.
Its good that it happens. It helps to discourage others from bagging too.
If a player on a team has their handicap raised twice in Vegas the team stands a chance of DQ They get the same scrutiny if several players go up in handicap on the same team. I don't remember the exact criteria for DQ but it is spelled out clearly in the documentation the team gets when they register for the tourney.
Its good that it happens. It helps to discourage others from bagging too.
Back when I played in my local apa league there were a few teams that flat out sandbagged and everybody knew it. Our LO was not a pool player and ran that league........well, all screwed up! My fiancé played on the team with us and was a strong 3 or weak 4 on a good day. She was also a league rep for the area and all she had to do was make a phone call and could get pretty much any players number changed. It was ridiculous. We never used this to our benefit but it was fact that she could do it. One instance that I'll never forget was playing our city tourney to go to Vegas and the captain of the team we were playing was called out on coaching (not under a time out) twice during one set. Openly admitted it to our league operator and nothing was done. In the middle of that match the LO comes to me and tells me that if my team loses he'll let us play again against a different team!!! Huh? I told him that he was warned the first time and he should've had to forfeit that set after the second time. Not the match, just that set. Needless to say that LO does whatever he wants to and you either like it or you drop out......like I did. A few other people in my local area have gotten tired of this guys actions and started a bca league. I hope they do well!!!! I've seen entire teams lay down for an entire session before the cities to keep their numbers down. This is the downfall to the APA. If they didn't hang that carrot of a free trip to Vegas in front of peoples noses you might see some real competition. This is just my opinion though, and everybody has their own.
What get's me is they will dq a team in vegas but not move teams they beat through the chart or mention all the teams back home they screwed.
An approximate average of 28% of drivers don't have insurance & they drive through traffic everyday. That speaks for their integrity & concern for their fellowman's welfare.
SANDBAGGERS that play in our Pool Rooms & Tournaments have no conscience, no backbone & no integrity. Anyone caught doing this should just be banned from our midst for a lifetime. Folks that have no concern for their fellowman, should be treated as a common criminal. They may not be incarcerated, but they can be shunned.
Disgracing one's self is about a dumb an act as a human being can commit.
SANDBAGGERS that play in our Pool Rooms & Tournaments have no conscience, no backbone & no integrity. Anyone caught doing this should just be banned from our midst for a lifetime. Folks that have no concern for their fellowman, should be treated as a common criminal. They may not be incarcerated, but they can be shunned.
Disgracing one's self is about a dumb an act as a human being can commit.
Every year in the APA magazine they run the same story about a team losing out because they were caught sandbagging. I think it is just a scare tactic by the APA.
Has anyone ever actually seen it done?
Has anyone here ever been on the receiving end?
I think it is all bull. I know players skills are bounced around during the league but has anyone here been bumped up while at Vegas to where it caused the team to forfeit?
I know one person that really sandbags just to play in the minis. He claims to really clean up because he really plays better than his skill level and the loop hole is your skill level is not affected by the minis so he always plays as good as he needs to make sure that he wins. His skill level is 5 but he is should be a better than average 7. He plays on a team that doesn't really have a chance of winning and he plays enough to qualify and bad enough to stay a 5. He goes there on his own thru a qualifier and just for the minis. Doesn't get into the other stuff because he doesn't want to get caught. He also wins at the qualifier because of his sandbagging.
Has anyone ever actually seen it done?
Has anyone here ever been on the receiving end?
I think it is all bull. I know players skills are bounced around during the league but has anyone here been bumped up while at Vegas to where it caused the team to forfeit?
I know one person that really sandbags just to play in the minis. He claims to really clean up because he really plays better than his skill level and the loop hole is your skill level is not affected by the minis so he always plays as good as he needs to make sure that he wins. His skill level is 5 but he is should be a better than average 7. He plays on a team that doesn't really have a chance of winning and he plays enough to qualify and bad enough to stay a 5. He goes there on his own thru a qualifier and just for the minis. Doesn't get into the other stuff because he doesn't want to get caught. He also wins at the qualifier because of his sandbagging.
Quandry u are correct ...:thumbup:
Just personal opinion/experiences.
i have seen individual players raised in vegas and even locked at a higher level but have no personal knowledge of a team being dq'd. it is a shame the APA handles this the way they do when a much fairer solution is at hand. enforce the system already in place. how you say? better scorekeeping. from my own personal experience. player in my area, a good strong 5 maybe low 6 in 8 ball stayed a 4 for a long time. he would win a high % of his matches while keeping track of his unusually high number of innings. i started keeping score whenever he played, even talked to other captains and when his 18 inning match was properly scored with the 8 to 10 defensive shots his level went up quickly thereafter.
so i ask that before someone jumps on the "bash the apa" wagon, take a close look at your team's scorekeeping methods and make sure things are being done correctly. have a higher skill player sit with a lower player while they are scoring and explain the system.
Mike
so i ask that before someone jumps on the "bash the apa" wagon, take a close look at your team's scorekeeping methods and make sure things are being done correctly. have a higher skill player sit with a lower player while they are scoring and explain the system.
Mike
I agree...td is incorrect. ALL APA matches affect handicaps, whether it is local, regional, or national...mini tournaments included.
Scott Lee ~ former APA LO
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee ~ former APA LO
www.poolknowledge.com
hmmm I'd like to see where in the formula the APA likes to keep so secret does it say that the LO's can do as they wish like this.
I explained to my local pool owner when asked why I didn't play anymore "because the LO here has to many questions surrounding her".. to which he responded "well you know she's got nothing to do with the scoring and the skill levels"
yeh... w/e
That can just be coincidence though. You will also hear that some of the strongest players in this nation are in the Southeast.
Let's say you got one room with 30 players. All they do is play amongst each other and that's it. The best player in this room can run 5 balls on his best day.
Then you got another room with the same amount. All of them are capable of running a rack and the best has been known to string 3 and 4 packs on rare occasions.
As you can see in this scenario, the skill levels will still be similar with the cream rising to the top but that average 6 or 7 from the one room will obviously look incredibly underrated when he plays in the other room.
I think I got that right :woot: