SBE + other Amateur events

u12armresl

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
There needs to be a much clearer line as to what constitutes an amateur.

Alex Olinger, Shane Winters, Ike, and the list goes on and on.
Are you kidding me. All of them get up and swing for the cheese against most anyone.
 
Perhaps Fargo Rate will be widely accepted and we can proceed from some objective source rather than "they play top well".

It would then be up the promoter to draw a line at some rating. Eg no one over 700 (or some other number).

The only downside is that highly skilled but true amateur players (like our member Demi) would likely be prevented from entering.

Gideon
 
How about this for a way to tell the Am from the traveling guy . I hate to say pro since there is no Mens pro tour sorry .

Lets see last weeks paycheck stub . If you work and play your a AM .

Just a thought attack at will or me and leave will alone .
 
u12armresl said:
There needs to be a much clearer line as to what constitutes an amateur.

Alex Olinger, Shane Winters, Ike, and the list goes on and on.
Are you kidding me. All of them get up and swing for the cheese against most anyone.
Click to expand...

Until Allen sees the entries begin to drop, why should he bar people? This year there were nearly 1000 entries. Some of them looked at the entry list before they entered. Most knew what to expect. Still. It's a bar box event. No one is a prohibitive favorite. Even my friend Shane Winters. Those who watched his earlier matches understand. He should have lost several times.

Being a reasonable player, I don't go to SBE expecting to win the Open. I've had chances in the past. But that's in the past. This is now! Enter the Open just to have something to do between the Wednesday night Warm-up and Friday Seniors. It's still the best amateur event on the east coast.

Until there is a universal description of a what constitutes a professional player, players like Shane, Alex, Ike, Jeff Abernathy and others of their ability will still enter and win.

Lyn
 
How about something like the golf model. In golf you self-declare as a professional. Until then you are an amateur. Amateurs can enter pro events but cannot make any prize money. Once self-declared as pro, cannot enter amateur events.
 
Umm in golf its more like this .


Petition the Professional Golf Association (PGA) for a spot in qualifying school, which is really a tournament that allows young players to qualify for the professional tour. In order to qualify, a player must meet a minimum score over a two- or four-day tournament in order to win his "tour card," which allows a golfer to enter PGA tournaments.


You dont get to do a Happy Gilmore and run out there slapping the ball around .

Although I like the idea but NONE of the lower traveling guys would ever declare themselves as PRO's and continue to Rob small tournys all over . Now I do not mind playing them but I have some ability to beat them that most do not . But I think the main OP is seeing this more of a room owner , event organizer flaw for not calling its a Po Am ,.. If its a Po Am then they are allowed but so many call their tournaments AM tournys and they let anyone in with hopes of buying that person in a auction and stealing the money from the little guys . Anyhow its not going to change anytime soon .
 
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I agree...Until we make players qualify to be a pro and have a pro tour this is very difficult. There are players in the pro am that I've seen cash more then once in the pro arena. If you can cash there it should be a no brainer that you can't play in the amateur. I played in the pro am this year..at least that way I know what I'm getting into lol
 
In a way that's the beauty of the Expo. You never know who you will draw. You can draw a buzz saw in the first round or a banger that just wants to be part of the experience. For me, I don't care who I play as long as they act like a gentleman during the match. I have won and lost plenty of matches. I have taken many lessons. I usually want to match up with the best guy in the room anyhow. I can always learn something. I could be mistaken but I feel if my game and mind is on and I get a few rolls I can beat anybody in a couple short sets.
 
Shane Winters has a Fargo of 747, just 23 points off of being tied for the 10th ranked player spot in the US (Corey).
There is no way that he should have been allowed to play in an amateur tourney IMO.
 
Chuck Fields said:
Shane Winters has a Fargo of 747, just 23 points off of being tied for the 10th ranked player spot in the US (Corey).
There is no way that he should have been allowed to play in an amateur tourney IMO.
Click to expand...


So a really, really good amateur should play in professional events?
 
cardiac kid said:
Until Allen sees the entries begin to drop, why should he bar people? This year there were nearly 1000 entries. Some of them looked at the entry list before they entered. Most knew what to expect. Still. It's a bar box event. No one is a prohibitive favorite. Even my friend Shane Winters. Those who watched his earlier matches understand. He should have lost several times.

Being a reasonable player, I don't go to SBE expecting to win the Open. I've had chances in the past. But that's in the past. This is now! Enter the Open just to have something to do between the Wednesday night Warm-up and Friday Seniors. It's still the best amateur event on the east coast.

Until there is a universal description of a what constitutes a professional player, players like Shane, Alex, Ike, Jeff Abernathy and others of their ability will still enter and win.

Lyn
Click to expand...

I think the main problem is Shane Winters declaring himself a professional and feeling he should be compensated as such one week. Then the following week he says I am an amateur and enters/wins the amateur tournament.
 
haystj said:
So a really, really good amateur should play in professional events?
Click to expand...

He is playing what I consider to be "pro speed", so yes. But everybody has a different definition of what that is, hence the debate. Where do you draw the line, numbers wise?
I personally think the 725 mark is about right.:thumbup:
 
Chuck Fields said:
He is playing what I consider to be "pro speed", so yes. But everybody has a different definition of what that is, hence the debate. Where do you draw the line, numbers wise?
I personally think the 725 mark is about right.:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I agree.

Of course the real problem is the definition of a "pro", which has been already brought up.

Personally, I don't think there is such a thing anymore. Other than maybe 2 or 3 people.
 
nine_ball6970 said:
I think the main problem is Shane Winters declaring himself a professional and feeling he should be compensated as such one week. Then the following week he says I am an amateur and enters/wins the amateur tournament.
Click to expand...

lol, his timing with that rant wasn't the best.
 
Tobby said:
Umm in golf its more like this .


Petition the Professional Golf Association (PGA) for a spot in qualifying school, which is really a tournament that allows young players to qualify for the professional tour. In order to qualify, a player must meet a minimum score over a two- or four-day tournament in order to win his "tour card," which allows a golfer to enter PGA tournaments.


You dont get to do a Happy Gilmore and run out there slapping the ball around .
Click to expand...

Not entirely true. You describe the normal method for getting a PGA TOUR card. A card is not necessary to play in PGA TOUR events. For example, that fellow Bryson DeChambeau played in the Masters this year as an amateur. He played very well (T21) but could not accept any prize money. He declared pro the day after and played the next tournament as a pro, getting in on a sponsor's exemption and won 4th place prize money. Since he finished in the top ten, he gets into the next tournament without a requiring a sponsor's exemption. He has a limited time and limited sponsor exemptions to make a certain amount of money to earn a PGA TOUR card. This is how the great amateur players (ie Tiger Woods) got on the tour w/o ever going near Tour School.

Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread. Just wanted to clear this up because I do think the self declaring option would work to keep pros out of amateur events. Of course, this would require some active governing body which we don't have.
 
u12armrest: You are 100% on the money with your post. Defenders like Lyn instead of answering you that in spite of Shane placing 2nd at 2015 Houston Open where Jeremy Jones took 1st, he must be considered an amateur. That ignores the fact that at that September 2015 tournament he placed ahead of Tony Chohan (3rd), Alex Pagulayan (4th), Dennis Orcollo and Richie Richeson (tied for 9th), Styler Woodward (13th).............and that's only one example as he made $11,579 in 2015 and stands at $12,372 this year to date. Look it up and rest assured that you have a legitimate complaint. People that don't have Lyn's base of knowledge have no way to understand all that and may naively think that it is truly an amateur tournament and that's unfair to real amateurs. Don't know what the answer is about ratings, but wanted to give you assurance that you are not wrong, far from it my friend.
 
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