Schon Cues

deanoc said:
Half the time I read these replies I think all of these people with techno talk really know what they are talking about,the other half when they talk about something that I understand I see that they are blowing smoke.

Schon makes cues something like Stroud and Gina(rounnded points) inlays that are put in precisely with lees hand work but not quite as sharp).They are done with precision and accuracy.I have known dozens of excellant players who played them,but never have I seen a really good player use a JW or Gina.
When Runde was at Schon,Evan was there also and it was never even a remote idea that Runde was superior in cue making to Evan,Runde left and makes a few cues out of his home now and the less supply creates a certain mystique.I like Runde,he is a great cuemaker too.

I wish we could get some old Schons and new ones,cover them and let these experts try to identify ,let alone prove which one hits better. I would be willing to bet a bundle they couln't.The idea that there is something less in quaity to new versus old ..humbug.

I once was with Verl Horn on the road in Las Vegas and one of these cue know it alls began to pick his cues apart",this isn;t even,this looks like a glue line"'When *I spend $1000 I"i expect it to be perfect"and similar drivel,until Verl had enough.H e looked the guy in the eye and explained"of course its not perfect ,its a custom handmade cue and its not possible to make them perfect,if you want a perfect cue get yourself a Schon,they make them perfect and they cost you less" When Jerry Franklin,who was with us heard this,he almost fell off his stool laughing in agreement with Verl.

Didn't Johnny Archer play his best with a schon? What about James Walden play a a Clark era schon?If the old ones were so good wouldn't they spednd a few hundred to get one.
I used to sell schons,played with dozens and if I were asked to get the best one made,i would call Evan and ask for a new one that he makes today.
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Nice post, Dean. Good information and insights.
 
Schon builds a good cue whether it's a Runde era or a newer Evan Clark cue. The rounded points and rounded inlays on the newer cues don't change how the cues play, but they take away from the value for collectors. You won't find a Schon cue that doesn't play well.

James
 
spliced point schons

I own 2 Runde era Schons. An R5 and a R7. They both hit great. Love em. Also own 2 Clarke era Schons, SL4 and a Sl7. These newer 2 cues also hit great. Sharp points or rounded points all 4 shoot damn good. Of course spliced pointedcues are no longer being made by Schon. Collector value in the spliced runde era cues. Evan and the crew still produce a fine hitting cue. Never had a bad Schon, new or old.
 
i hope that anyone reading this thread noted that I said that the difference was in VALUE, not playability. I(nor anyone with any sense), is going to claim that sharp or rounded points makes that huge a difference in playability. Thought I made that clear, sorry. I didn't really see where anyone said that. What I said is that the older Schons are more desirable, and I don't really see how that can be argued, unless you don't like more valuable cues. :)
 
Schon cues are awesome.

When I was a kid - that was THE cue to have around Nashville, TN...and when I moved to Florida it seemed the same way. Lots of good players used Schons. Nobody cared about rounded points, etc (I still don't....although visually I think the sharp points are more appealing).

My mom bought me a Schon when I graduated highschool and I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I had been lusting after one for a while. Wish I still had it. If I weren't playing with a KLEIN cue now --- I would probably go for a Schon. You don't get more cue for that kind of money. They just play great. I've probably owned 10 Schon cues, and I liked them all...but would see something else I wanted and sell them to get that. Not because they weren't great cues. Oh, I bought a Cocobola Sneaky Pete Schon from Justin of TAR, and that was a great playing cue! One of the best Schons I've hit a ball with. (Yep, wish I had kept it..LOL)

Johnny Archer used one forever it seems. Played his best pool with a Schon cue.

Shane Van Boening uses a Schon with a Joss shaft.

Matt Clatterbuck is a great VA player who uses a Schon.

Chris Comstock is a great DC player who uses a Schon.

Alex Pagulayan has used the same Schon forever..right? Won all sorts of US OPENS, World Championships, etc..with that cue.

Didn't Jimmy Wetch use a Schon cue for a long time?

All this Schon talk has me thinking about buying another Schon..........lol.
 
The term production cue is typically attributed to a manufacturer that produces over 300 cue annually. Due to the higher volume it is a fair assumption that quality will go down one man that is real good making every part of a cue is more likely to produce a very good cue then any one of 20 people that are rated from real good down to average. Most people will agree that Schon produces nice cues. My guess is Schon was able to maintain quality in their cues even though the production quantities increased. How they do it is probably a combination of good equipment, good design, selective hiring of personnel, good management and so on. These are also the things that make them more expensive then other production cues.
 
I have a few cues.. My primary playing cue for the last decade or so has been a Schon SP31 (can be seen here)

http://www.palmercollector.com/Schon/SchonRandSPad1990.html

I have owned a Runde era Schon, and my current, but I can't pretend to say how one played versus the other. I owned them years apart from each other.

I can throw a slight curve ball into the mix here though.

I have 2 Schon shafts for my cue, and 1 Runde shaft for it that I bought off an AZ member a few years back.

The Runde shaft does have an ivory ferrule on it, which I'm sure effects "the hit" quite a bit.

The difference between the Runde Shaft and the schon shafts are night and day. There is even a sizeable difference between the 2 schon shafts. (one of them feels "dead" to me)

The Runde shaft is much stiffer then either of the Schon shafts, yet on the same token still gets quite a bit of english on the ball when called to do so.

I could go on and on about it... but to give you the readers digest version. I'm convinced this shaft is the cure for cancer.

I have played with other "custom" cues, and even some touted here on AZ as "the best" hitting cues around. I haven't found any that I like better then this combination.

The only thing that I dislike about it, is the fact that I can't break with it. (ivory ferrule)



BTW, I tend to subscribe to the theory that the vast majority of "the hit" of a cue is in the shaft, and not in the butt. The butt is more about balance point and "feel." I'm no cue maker though.. Just a player.

DJ
 
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I am a big fan of the 5/16x14 joint, which Schon uses. The older cues, which many refer to as "Runde" era Schon's are hand spliced as opposed to cnc'd which just seems unnatural. Older ones, like the R-series cues, have wood rings surrounding the steel collar, as opposed to the silver of late. All Schon's use beautiful wood and seem to play better the older they get. It's almost as if the joint tightens. Hard to explain but older Schon's seem to play better. i am aware that cnc'd vs. spliced points should have little to no affect on playability. Just can't put my finger on it.
 
muttley76 said:
i hope that anyone reading this thread noted that I said that the difference was in VALUE, not playability. I(nor anyone with any sense), is going to claim that sharp or rounded points makes that huge a difference in playability. Thought I made that clear, sorry. I didn't really see where anyone said that. What I said is that the older Schons are more desirable, and I don't really see how that can be argued, unless you don't like more valuable cues. :)
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No your point is very clear! From a collectors standpoint they are worth more. Some of the spliced blanks are even rumored to have been made by Gus Szamboti ( I dont know if that has ever been proven or disproven). On the collectability aspect though again.... if Bob Runde was still the head guy at Schon...... would there be as big of a stigma associated with the spliced points? IMO there would not be. They might be worth more for the fact that they are spliced.... but not because they are "Runde era". That came when he went solo and started making his super high end stuff. Therefore people assumed that the cues he made while at Schon MUST be better.
The problem with the Schon/Runde topic in general is there are TONS of people who claim that the spliced pointed cues do play better. That is a out and out fallacy. That is the only point I was trying to get across.
We are agreeing on everything..... so there take that.... :D
Chuck
 
RiverCity said:
No your point is very clear! From a collectors standpoint they are worth more. Some of the spliced blanks are even rumored to have been made by Gus Szamboti ( I dont know if that has ever been proven or disproven). On the collectability aspect though again.... if Bob Runde was still the head guy at Schon...... would there be as big of a stigma associated with the spliced points? IMO there would not be. They might be worth more for the fact that they are spliced.... but not because they are "Runde era". That came when he went solo and started making his super high end stuff. Therefore people assumed that the cues he made while at Schon MUST be better.
The problem with the Schon/Runde topic in general is there are TONS of people who claim that the spliced pointed cues do play better. That is a out and out fallacy. That is the only point I was trying to get across.
We are agreeing on everything..... so there take that.... :D
Chuck
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Good! I just thought you might have been thinking that I was down talking Schon, and nothing could be further from the truth. Old or new, they are the best production cue, and one of the best overall, that I have ever played with.:smile:
 
Stl-7

As you can see, I play an STL-7 (newer one) and go back and forth between my original Schon shaft and my Petree shaft. I personally enjoy using my Petree shaft more because it plays better. The Schon shaft does play well too, it just doesn't have as juicy a hit as the Petree.

What I like about Schon cues is the consistency from one to the next. Mezz cues are the only other production cue that can be compared to a Schon cue. Joss, Viking, Meucci, and any of the other production cues couldn't compare by a mile.

The significance about Schon cues is how well the shaft mates up at the joint to the butt. When you give it that one or two last twists, it seems to really come together giving you a 'confirming' feeling that it's tight and together.

Everything else about a Schon cue is truly beautiful and gives me a reassuring feeling that I have a quality stick in my hands that won't let me down.
 
RiverCity said:
On the collectability aspect though again.... if Bob Runde was still the head guy at Schon...... would there be as big of a stigma associated with the spliced points? IMO there would not be. They might be worth more for the fact that they are spliced.... but not because they are "Runde era".
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The spliced shape points would still be more saught after but would be refered to as 80's Schons as opposed to Runde era. The distinction of "Runde era" is because, about the time that Runde left Schon, the points changed from a traditional V-groove to the inlayed rounded points. Going back to what was stated earlier, V-groove will be more saught after.

This is not an issue that is exclusive to Schon. Look at Stroud. His early work will be more saught after because of the traditional construction. His newer work is beautiful and still command high dollars but, as time goes on, the V-groove will hold their value to the collectors.

There are others but JW was the first that came to mind. I'm sure the same will ring true to any cue maker that makes the switch. The playability change is negligible between the two techniques. That can be said for two identical cues. The difference, IMO, is tradition, not playability.

Also, there needs to be a distiction that the issue is "V-groove vs inlayed" points, not "splice vs CNC." Most cue makers use a CNC to cut traditional V-groove as well as the inlayed points. It is construction not method.
 
One of the factors for value in cues is how rare they are, I have many valuable cues and my personal preference is a spliced cue but probably my most valuable cue actually does not have any points. If your goal is to have a cue that holds or increases value your best bet is first quality craftsmanship then rarity and what is the market desires. Look at Dale Perry Cues 12 years ago he fell into the category with SW, JW and other customs that produced under 300 cues a year and those cues were and still are valued in the thousands but he has increased his production and you can buy them all day for 300 on ebay now. In regards to the points and value one is not more valuable then another it is a matter of what the market desires are. Just like a Ford a Chevy and a Dodge anyone can argue for or against any of them but if you happen to have the right model at the right time then it can be a money maker. Not every Mustang is valuable but some are real valuable. The market sets the value. I agree most collectors prefer spliced cues but very few spliced cues approach the value of a well made inlaid cue that is made on a 4th Axis (Spiral) a good example is the Thomas Wayne cue that has the Ivory snake skeleton is inlaid in a spiral around the forearm. In my opinion spliced cues are easier to sell but not necessarily worth more. What would a Balabushka with inlaid points be worth, how many Gus or Barry Szamboti's have you seen with no points?
 
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2rgrbn said:
I agree most collectors prefer spliced cues but very few spliced cues approach the value of a well made inlaid cue that is made on a 4th Axis (Spiral) a good example is the Thomas Wayne cue that has the Ivory snake skeleton is inlaid in a spiral around the forearm. In my opinion spliced cues are easier to sell but not necessarily worth more. What would a Balabushka with inlaid points be worth, how many Gus or Barry Szamboti's have you seen with no points?
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You cannot compare one cue maker to another to make this type of arguement, even though your post rings true. You have to compare a spliced Bushka to an inlayed Bushka.

You example of DP is correct and is the main issue the OP was refering to. Old DP's were made differently than the DP's today, thus the old is prerefered and worth more, not because of age but because to technique.
 
ratcues said:
You cannot compare one cue maker to another to make this type of arguement, even though your post rings true. You have to compare a spliced Bushka to an inlayed Bushka.

You example of DP is correct and is the main issue the OP was refering to. Old DP's were made differently than the DP's today, thus the old is prerefered and worth more, not because of age but because to technique.
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Agreed that is actually what I meant to imply, as far as I know there are no Bushkas with inlaid points. Since his work is respected craftsmanship, if he had made a few inlaid cues and only a few they would certainly be sought after by collectors due to first the qaulity craftsmanship and second the rarity. A good example is my plain birdseye maple forearm Gus it is as simple as they come but due to it being so rare it helps the value. I have heard that Barry Szamboti has sold only 6 plain forearm cues (ever) and 5 of them went over seas. What kind of $$ would the one remaining in the US bring I would assume a bunch. If you took the exact examples I give in this post and change the plain forearms to inlaid point forearms I think you would have the same results. Ultimately the main ingredient is craftsmanship.
 
This might be a dumb question but I really don't know, when did Runde leave Schon?

I have a Schon from 1997(somewhere around there) and I love it. I emailed Evan about it and what he said back to me is in my signature.
 
stevea said:
This might be a dumb question but I really don't know, when did Runde leave Schon?

I have a Schon from 1997(somewhere around there) and I love it. I emailed Evan about it and what he said back to me is in my signature.
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Runde left Schon in 1992 to retire and make his own cues on his own schedule. By that time, Schon had already converted to inlaid points. They use a pantograph to inlay the points starting in 1988 or so. They also stopped making the stitch rings in the late 1980's and switched to metal rings.

The surest way to ID an early Schon is stitch rings, sharp points, and sharp inlays.

Chris
 
Evan Clarke like anyone building anything is very proud of his product. To him his cues have evolved with the times and are better CONSTRUCTED than ever.

However we are not concerned with that becuase we are talking about playability and like someone mentioned Johnny Archer played his best with a newer Schon. On the other hand Alex Pagulayan played his best with a Runde Era Schon. Also a good number of pros are using Predator shafts these days anyway.

Schon has never made a bad product and you will probably be happy either way.

I own 6 Runde Era Schons. I only ever had one other but I sold it to a good friend of mine when his cues were stolen on the condition that he sell it back if he decided to change. If not for that scenario I would still have it today.

I have also bought and sold over 10 newer ones for profit. They are the easiest production cue to move in my area.

As a collector I keep the older ones and move the newer ones. Many interested buyers don't care about age or Runde Era they just want a Schon and for them they like the newer designs. At the same time many will only buy a Runde Era.

Both Evan and Bob should be proud of having us discuss their great products here, a true testemant to their success!
 
I have both - a sharp pointed R6 from 1986 or so, and a special edition round pointed cue that was made a few years later but when Bob was still there. I've owned and sold a few others, and growing up in Milwaukee area I've hit with countless others. I also was friends with Bob's son and knew him reasonably well, hung out in the factory a few times, etc.

I can attest that with few exceptions, most of the Schons I've hit with are very consistent and all hit great. The ones I didn't like probably had more to do with weight, balance, etc. than any issues with the actual construction of the cue. I will say my R6 is just a very solid hitting cue, many people over the years have noticed it, and it did take me a few cues to find one that had a very similar weight, balance, etc., but I did and my newer cue hits and feels pretty much the exact same as my R6.

Scott
 
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