Schon Shafts and Deflection

stljohnny

stljohnny

knowledge > execution. :(
Silver Member
I was playing with a friend last night who was using his new Schon cue and when I asked him how he was liking it, he said he didn't really. When I asked why, he said he said he couldn't make a ball using any english. So, while we played he let me use his cue. I don't know the model number, but it's around $1200, so whatever family of cues that falls into. To be fair, he's not really a student of the game and just kinda fell into this cue for a pretty good price. It's brand new.
After quickly browsing the Schon site, it looks most like the STL-15 from what I can remember. If that helps.

Right off the bat, I notice the shaft has a straight taper (I think that's the term), looks almost like a 3C shaft. Seems to have a pretty stiff hit, compared to my very flexy lucasi shaft that is). But I noticed it actually deflects a measurable amount more than my shaft. We were playing on a bar table, so there wasn't too much distance, but for example, look at this layout:

CueTable Help



I had to aim to the 6 ball dead straight into the rail to account for the deflection in order to cut the ball in with high-inside english. The blue line is my aim line, the red line is the resulting path.

With my cue, which has a pro taper, I still have to aim pretty full, but not *that* full for that shot.

I was just wondering if this is the reason why most of the people I know with Schons have bought aftermarket shafts?

Also, do you know what the default tip is for Schons - it's harder than he prefers, but I couldn't remember what they use - and how much, if any, would that come into the deflection equation?

The good news is that is really like the ping of this cue - loud and clear indicator of whether or not I stroked it or poked it. :)
 
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Is this a Schon with a regular factory shaft, or was it modified? They don't use a straight taper - so something is strange. I figure somebody tried to re-taper it and ruined it. Schons are usually 13mm but can be ordered other ways. They use their own tip - a medium hard one piece leather similar to LePro. The usual taper on a Schon is similar to your Lucasi or a Joss -not like that at all.

But yes, that is a lot of squirt and it would be a difficult monster to tame. I would give up on that shaft. The new OB Classic would be a perfect fit for this cue for around $200 or I think Schon shafts can be had for about $125 that will play a lot better than that one.

Chris
 
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I can't answer your question about deflection. I play with a Schon with an original shaft and I'm used to it. If I started with an aftermarket shaft I would probably struggle for awhile with the Schon. Johnny Archer beat the world with a Schon. I think it is just a matter of what you get used to.

As far as their tip, they use their own tip and it is hard. I have a wizard on my shaft and I like it better than any other I've tried. It is possible that your friend would like a softer tip better than the original hard tip that Schon cues ship with.
 
TATE said:
Is this a Schon with a regular factory shaft, or was it modified? They don't use a straight taper - so something is strange. I figure somebody tried to re-taper it and ruined it. Schons are usually 13mm but can be ordered other ways. They use their own tip - a medium hard one piece leather similar to LePro. The usual taper on a Schon is similar to your Lucasi or a Joss -not like that at all.

But yes, that is a lot of squirt and it would be a difficult monster to tame. I would give up on that shaft. The new OB Classic would be a perfect fit for this cue for around $200 or I think Schon shafts can be had for about $125 that will play a lot better than that one.

Chris
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I'll second that. It will perform incredibly, and since it has a traditional ferrule instead of the laminated maple ferrule found on the OB-1 and OB-2, it won't clash with the classic look of a Schon.
 
I told him I think he should go with an aftermarket, either predator or, my personal preference, something from the OB line. But I'm not sure he's convinced enough to invest another couple hundred in it.

I just thought of something else... I recall the room owner mentioning going through "cue stix" to get this, so maybe there's a difference the catalog cues vs their standards?

Thanks for all the info!
 
I played w/ a Schon for quite a while. Bought two Schon shafts with it & they were the most deflecting damn shafts I ever saw. I used 314's with mine. Back then (year 2000) 314's were on back log, and billiard stores were selling shafts off their Predator cues to people wanting to order them to use on their Schons.
I asked Evan Clarke to fit a pair of 314's for my Schon LTD & he told me flatly - no. He didn't believe in the LD shafts. Today they fit 314's & OB's to deliver them with regularly, and also fit them for retailers to sell aftermarket.
One of a number of reasons Schon gets no more of my business. They're a good playing cue. But they're over-priced badly (especially the high end stuff - ridiculous), and the re-sale is the pits.
When you want to charge $2000-$3500 for cues with marginal materials, & cnc points & inlays with 1/8" radius that you can't even be bothered to sharpen up by hand...PLEASE.
Why don't you just spit on me!
 
I bought a Schon from Seyberts few years back and I have to say that Schon shaft deflects the CB a lot!!! and yes, the tip on it was as hard as a break tip. I played with it for few weeks and just couldn't get used to it.
I almost wanted to get rid of it but I managed to get a used 314-2 cheap and that changed the whole story...
 
I played with my Schon shaft for about 9 months and could just never get used to it. Huge drop off in my game. Switched to after markets and haven't looked back. The OB classic definitely is a great fit on this cue because it still retains that stiff Schon feel to it but plays much better.
 
i just bought a new Schon and then picked up a second Schon shaft. i put a dime radius on one shaft and a nickel on the (otherwise identical) second shaft. the one i changed to the dime feels like it has a lot more deflection and i mis-cue on it regularly, the one i left as a nickel is much more stable and i like it a lot better... my old cue (a *very* flexible old viking) had a 11 mm tip on it and a dime radius, so perhaps my standards of a solid hit are different than others... maybe a different tip (or a different shape) would make for a different feel.
 
mdavis228 said:
I played w/ a Schon for quite a while. Bought two Schon shafts with it & they were the most deflecting damn shafts I ever saw. I used 314's with mine. Back then (year 2000) 314's were on back log, and billiard stores were selling shafts off their Predator cues to people wanting to order them to use on their Schons.
I asked Evan Clarke to fit a pair of 314's for my Schon LTD & he told me flatly - no. He didn't believe in the LD shafts. Today they fit 314's & OB's to deliver them with regularly, and also fit them for retailers to sell aftermarket.
One of a number of reasons Schon gets no more of my business. They're a good playing cue. But they're over-priced badly (especially the high end stuff - ridiculous), and the re-sale is the pits.
When you want to charge $2000-$3500 for cues with marginal materials, & cnc points & inlays with 1/8" radius that you can't even be bothered to sharpen up by hand...PLEASE.
Why don't you just spit on me!
Click to expand...


When Platinum tested them, Schons were among the highest squirt shafts.

When I have to aim way out on the wrong side of the ball to use inside english, that's when I quietly unscrew the shaft and try to never think about it again.

I haven't played with a Schon in many years, but the old ones I had were not at all like that - they played fine.

Chris
 
TATE said:
When Platinum tested them, Schons were among the highest squirt shafts.

When I have to aim way out on the wrong side of the ball to use inside english, that's when I quietly unscrew the shaft and try to never think about it again.

I haven't played with a Schon in many years, but the old ones I had were not at all like that - they played fine.

Chris
Click to expand...

The old Schons boast a lot to recommend them over the new ones, Chris.
Every word true!
 
The Schon STL's of are their traditional line of cues. The standard Schon shaft has a 5/16 x 14 piloted insert joint and employs a 12 to 14 inch pro taper. They are 'old school' and do take some getting used to, but are otherwise excellent cues.
Tell your friend to give it some time, and my guess is he will begin to like how it plays.
If he doesn't, Seyberts sells a Predator 314-2 with the Schon logo, ring, and insert that screw right on with an amazing joint fit. These shafts come with an Everest tip and are world beaters.
 
stljohnny said:
I told him I think he should go with an aftermarket, either predator or, my personal preference, something from the OB line. But I'm not sure he's convinced enough to invest another couple hundred in it.

I just thought of something else... I recall the room owner mentioning going through "cue stix" to get this, so maybe there's a difference the catalog cues vs their standards?

Thanks for all the info!
Click to expand...

I have a Schon Ltd from back in the '90s and the shaft looks like new since it hasn't been played hardly at all. I use 2 shafts that I made in a friends cue shop and the taper has been modified very similar to a predator shaft taper (12.75mm ferrule with the same dimensions predator uses) and because of the longer taper these shafts don't deflect anything like the stock Schon shaft.

If your friends shaft has a straight taper then it's not an original Schon taper for sure. I have a Chris Hightower lathe and i've had it for years and i've done a lot of experimenting with shaft tapers since I could do it myself. The stiffer the shaft the more the cue ball will move off line if you use english and the shot has any distance. Longer tapered 12.75mm shafts give a little using side spin and they don't deflect like the stiff shafts do. I've hit balls with stiff 13mm shafts on cues and just put them down because they deflected so much I couldn't make a long shot with english. I guess if I worked with the higher deflection shafts long enough i'd get the hang of it, but i'd rather play with something that is more user friendly and easier to play with.

I also own predator and OB1 shafts for my cues and they take the deflection problem out of the game. To me the hit is different with the low deflection shafts and I enjoy playing with a maple shaft if it's the right size and tapered for low deflection. Your friend may have to get a different shaft for his Schon if he can't handle the shaft that came with it.

You mentioned cue stix and I know that Schon builds some models for that company and the prefix is CX plus the model number if it's a cue stix international model.

James
 
> I had a hard time adjusting to a Schon after playing with a variety of Meucci's. It just didn't seem to produce as much spin velocity as my old cues.

About this time I really started to concentrate on building a consistent,repeatable stroke,thanks to the Bert Kinister videos.

Low and behold,it wasn't the cue,it was my physical motion that hampered my spin because the cue was stiffer.

I eventually got it right,and now I can do things with the cue ball a LOT more accurately.

What I discovered is that a properly stroked shot,in regards to cue ball speed in relation to a given amount of spin,ALWAYS comes back to the intended target.

That is if you ALLOW the cue ball to deflect. At certain speeds,the speed will lessen cue ball deflection due to spin,allowing you to load up on the spin and still shoot the cue ball in a straight line.

There aren't many shots where I have to consciously aim differently to compensate.

I've also been playing with the same cue for almost 20 years.

Give it time,and hit as many balls with it as you can by yourself and you'll see what I mean. Tommy D.
 
mdavis228 said:
I played w/ a Schon for quite a while. Bought two Schon shafts with it & they were the most deflecting damn shafts I ever saw. I used 314's with mine. Back then (year 2000) 314's were on back log, and billiard stores were selling shafts off their Predator cues to people wanting to order them to use on their Schons.
I asked Evan Clarke to fit a pair of 314's for my Schon LTD & he told me flatly - no. He didn't believe in the LD shafts. Today they fit 314's & OB's to deliver them with regularly, and also fit them for retailers to sell aftermarket.
One of a number of reasons Schon gets no more of my business. They're a good playing cue. But they're over-priced badly (especially the high end stuff - ridiculous), and the re-sale is the pits.
When you want to charge $2000-$3500 for cues with marginal materials, & cnc points & inlays with 1/8" radius that you can't even be bothered to sharpen up by hand...PLEASE.
Why don't you just spit on me!
Click to expand...


Someone had to say it!:grin: if they just sharpened 'em up by hand or even offered full spliced/half spliced cues with their higher end models i'd understand. i also think it'd be cool if they offered pick your own specs option.

they started selling 314's because even if they don't believe in ld shafts the people spending money do. gotta offer what people will pay for
 
Schons are good cues. The First schon I had last me a few years before replaceing the tip. I wish I still had it. Gonna cry myself to sleep now.
 
taper

All new schon shafts seem to play like poop,but I had mine retapered to just under 12mm with a straighter taper.What a difference in playability.Even with the smaller diameter the shaft stiffened right up.The problem isn't the shaftwood or shaft its the crummy taper.:)
 
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