school me on chalk...

bigshooter said:
Masters: cheap and works well
Silver Cup: slightly more and works well
Blue Diamond: slightly more than that: works well
Predator: has to be great because Predator said so
Kamui: works well but you have to make monthly payments
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I actually defaulted on my payments to the bank for a Kamui chalk loan. Now they want to repossess it but it's already halfway used. What do I do???
 
CreeDo said:
I actually defaulted on my payments to the bank for a Kamui chalk loan. Now they want to repossess it but it's already halfway used. What do I do???
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The Kamui mafia will pay you a visit and then the police will draw a chalk outline around your body. Ironically the police use Masters.
 
[/QUOTE]
K but you may not love this opinion :)
It's just a silly superstition.

Tweeten themselves said it's the same, and explained why they changed it (due to 9/11).

[/QUOTE]


Hmmm....your right, I don't like your thoughts...as your thoughts do not incorporate any type of evolutionary timing...(very obtuse observation)...

...my thinking is that the era of lead poisoning had originated back in the late 60's and into the 70's...as it certainly did not occur in 2001...so, I don't think that the changing of the label had anything to do with the possibility of a formula change...thus, my thinking is that if there was a formula change, it was back earlier, again, somewhere in the 60's or 70's...

And, hmmm...where is it publicized that they changed the label due to 9/11, I guess I missed that notification...other than hearsay and conjecture...can you produce any documentation from Tweeten that supports your intellectual thought process...or are you just repeating what you've heard and think...as congenial guesswork...


LOL, eating popcorn...
 
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Just try some Kamui. I'll never understand why people will spend $1000 on a pool cue and balk at putting some great chalk on the business end of the stick. Reminds me of people buying $500 smartphones and balking about paying $3 for an app.
 
CreeDo said:
If I'm reading you right, you preferred a certain chalk, but at some point you found you didn't like it anymore... and later you found out they had moved and changed their name? And I guess as a result of that move they were using new or different ingredients?

Let me ask you this.

Let's say I had 2 cubes of chalk, one masters and one, I dunno, triangle or predator... and they were both the same shade of blue. I randomly chalk your cue with one or the other, and each time you hit a spin shot and then mark down which chalk you think was used.

Out of 100 shots, how often do you think you'd get it correct? What if I upped the ante to 3 different brands?
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I wouldn't bet a dime that I could pick the right chalk under heat.
(the experiment affects the result)
I was playing a lot of pool when this happened and I innocently followed
the chalk with Chicago ingredients through a name change...my tastes
were not a sudden decision.

My friend was impressed by my intuition, because it was the opposite of
'brand loyalty'....I followed the actual chalk.
 
I have been using BD for a while now. I will never use anything else if I can help it. Has a grit I just dont get with other chalk, and it stays on and coats like I want it to. I also chalk after every shot, overkill I know, but its just my rythym and helps me scale back and look at my next few shots in the meantime. Some people find it ridiculous, chalk is chalk to some, but for others it makes all the difference in personal play.
 
yes, i like Masters better....tip: keep it in a little baggie with some rice to keep it really dry.
Best of Luck !
 
Well, I have read the entire "Pre-flag master chalk, ask tweeten " post...and now. I do believe that the flag was applied after 9/11/2001...

But, I'm still a believer that the formula has been changed, prior to 09/11/2001...due to the probability of lead content within the original make up of the chalk.

I believe that this post supports the government intervention, that caused the change...

http://pediatrics.aappublications.o...ct?related-urls=yes&legid=pediatrics;97/6/916

I also still believe that the pre-flag is made up of a finer grit than the newer stuff and that it coats the tip really well...better than most...

I will also contend, that the newer stuff is very close, and of very minor differences between the two, and in a blind test, I probably couldn't pick the difference...between the two...just as I probably couldn't pick the difference if Blue Diamond, Predator, and Kamui were added into the mix...

Very interesting topic...
 
jschelin99 said:
As we all know, miscues happen for two reasons: (1) a really bad stroke (i.e. dropping your shoulder or jumping up), and (2) not enough chalk on the tip to adequately grip the cue ball. (If I'm missing a 3rd reason, please let me know.)...
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The obvious reason that you have missed is; striking the cue ball too far towards the outer edge, beyond the miscue limit.

I suppose you are saying that a bad stroke will cause you to strike the cue ball beyond the miscue limit. But what I am saying is that sometimes people strike the cue ball beyond the miscue limit intentionally in that they hit the cue ball exactly where they meant to, but did not realize that that spot was beyond the miscue limit.

Now I believe that better chalk creates more friction and thus moves the miscue limit further out towards the edge of the cue ball - however slightly that distance may be.

Fatz
 
jwe711 said:
But, I'm still a believer that the formula has been changed, prior to 09/11/2001...due to the probability of lead content within the original make up of the chalk.
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What was changed is anybody's guess. In fact, I think it is much more likely that any changes were simply for quality reasons or economic reasons. They could have changed things like the binder or the type/quality/proportions of the silica used. In fact, I'm beginning to think that they changed the formula multiple times over the years.

jwe711 said:
I believe that this post supports the government intervention, that caused the change...

http://pediatrics.aappublications.o...ct?related-urls=yes&legid=pediatrics;97/6/916
Click to expand...

That article did not mention blue chalk.

jwe711 said:
I also still believe that the pre-flag is made up of a finer grit than the newer stuff and that it coats the tip really well...better than most...
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I think that the really old "genuine" pre-flag is grittier. I think that there might be an in-between period where their blue Masters is less gritty than the older stuff, and more clayey than their newer stuff. I have a batch like this right now. I haven't tested it much yet. If I decide I don't want it and try to sell it, I will NOT claim it as "genuine old" pre-flag, and would sell it for a pretty cheap price.

Fatz
 
AuntyDan said:
I don't "hate chalking on every shot" as several others have mentioned. (It's part of my pre-shot routine now.) In terms of performance I don't believe I've ever fully miscued for any reason other than my own incompetence, but I believe it is certainly possible I've missed some finesse shots when the level of grip between the cue tip and the cue ball was not quite as expected due to inconsistent chalk. What I have no way of knowing is if a premium chalk would really eliminate such errors or not but I'm open to the possibility.
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I think better chalk will make your miscue limit be out further towards the edges of the ball. And also, when I am right at that limit, with inferior chalk, I won't necessarily miscue, but I will "feel" a slight sensation of slippage, and will get less draw/spin than I am accustomed to. When this happens consistently with one type of chalk, but does not happen with another brand, then that leaves me confident that I can tell the difference.

The best test for this is a close, soft, extreme draw shot at an angle. A shot that you don't want to hit hard because you want the cue ball to divert from the tangent line as quickly as possible because the object ball that you are trying to avoid is close to the object ball you shot. In this case you need a lot of draw, but since you are hitting it softly, you need to go as close to the edge as possible to get that draw. These are the shots to test out chalk with.

Fatz
 
CreeDo said:
Don't get sucked in... you'll hear people claim they can tell a difference in the chalk (in terms of how the cue hits the ball, how much spin gets applied, how far they draw, whatever). It's simply not true. Try doing a chalk "Pepsi Challenge" and guess what chalk was used by how the ball reacted.

Is it possible some other brand's composition makes it 1% less likely to miscue than master? Maybe, but that's really only helpful if you have perfect chalking habits (meaning you chalk after every shot, and apply it carefully to coat the whole tip). If you aren't already a careful chalker, worry more about that than about which brand you use.
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You believe what you want to believe.
 
jschelin99 said:
Unless I've missed something over the last 25 years of playing pool, chalk is the substance that helps increase the friction between the cue tip and the cue ball, thereby allowing you to make the cue ball move to the next desired location. Right?

As we all know, miscues happen for two reasons: (1) a really bad stroke (i.e. dropping your shoulder or jumping up), and (2) not enough chalk on the tip to adequately grip the cue ball. (If I'm missing a 3rd reason, please let me know.)

Once you've played pool long enough, you understand the incredible importance of chalking your cue tip before every shot. Therefore, nearly all miscues are due to a bad stroke. My question: Is more expensive chalk going to fix a bad stroke?

As far as the actual differences between chalk brands, who knows? Each company has their proprietary blends of chemicals. The real question regarding the differences in chalk: Is there a significant difference in performance from brand to brand that justifies the very significant differences in price?

For instance, I'm sure every player has used Master chalk at one point in their pool playing career. As far as I'm concerned, Master works just fine. As a matter of fact, it works perfectly. And the price is incredibly reasonable, ranging from free on the rail of the table to $0.25 per cube (and that's full retail).

Now, let's examine all other chalks more expensive than Master, such as Blue Diamond, Kamui, and the new Predator chalk. Do these chalks offer a SIGNIFICANT improvement over Master to justify their lofty prices. By the way, if you don't think that $2 for chalk isn't expensive, you're fooling yourself. Yes, in the grand scheme of things, 2 bucks ain't that big of a deal. But, in general, $2 for a 1 inch cube of chalk is quite ridiculous. And don't even get me started on a $30 cube of Kamui!

Anyway, back to whether or not expensive chalk offers a SIGNIFICANT improvement over Master, I'll just say this: If those expensive chalks offered ANYTHING that Masters chalk cannot provide, every single pro pool player, snooker player, and billiard player would use them. EVERY. SINGLE. PRO. The fact that ANY pro still uses Master proves the other chalks are just hype.

And don't give me that foolish argument that you only have to chalk your tip once every three games with brand X chalk. My response to that is: whatever. If you're playing a big set or the finals of a tournament, are you really going to chalk your tip once every couple games? No, you're going to chalk every shot.
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AGREED! :clapping:
 
if it sticks on your tip well, then it's ok. make sure the chalk is always dry and your tip is sufficiently roughed-up/scuffed. brand of chalk does not matter to me.
 
jwe711 said:
I'm still a believer that the [Master's] formula has been changed, prior to 09/11/2001...due to the probability of lead content within the original make up of the chalk.
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Here are tables of lead content in pool cue chalk from testing done by the Department of Medical Toxicology, Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center, Phoenix, AZ and the Mecklenburg County, NC Health Department (from the late 90s, I think). It says that only green chalks (including Masters) had dangerously high levels of lead (over 7,000 parts per million - the US regulatory limit for childrens' products was recently lowered to 100 PPM).

Masters blue (and all non-green chalk except Pioneer tangerine, apparently) had only trace amounts of lead, so that probably wasn't the reason for any formula change, if there was one.

pj
chgo

TABLE 1. Chalk Samples Tested by Good Samaritan Regional
Medical Center


Legend for chart:

A - Brand
B - Color
C - Lead, mg/kg (ppm)

A B C

Crest Blue 30
Imperial Green 20
Master Blue <20
Master Green 7600
Master Green 8000
NTC Black <20
NTC Blue <20
NTC Blue <20
NTC Brown <20
NTC Green 20
NTC Gray <20
NTC Red <20
NTC Tangerine <20
Pioneer Green 7040
ProClassic Blue 20
Silver Cup Blue <20
Sportscraft Blue <20
Superior Gray 20
Superior Tangerine 20
Triangle Brown 20
Triangle Tangerine 30

TABLE 2. Chalk Samples Tested by Mecklenburg County Health
Department

Legend for chart:

A - Brand
B - Color
C - No. of Samples
D - Lead, mg/kg (ppm)
E - Range, mg/kg (ppm)

A B C D E

Master Green 8 6833 6200-7330
Master Red 8 9 4-15
NTC Green 2 2.5 2-3
NTC Red 2 1.5 1-2
Pioneer Blue 6 18 17-23
Pioneer Green 8 8059 6830-9630
Pioneer Tangerine 6 9952 8250-14080
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Hmmm....your right, I don't like your thoughts...as your thoughts do not incorporate any type of evolutionary timing...(very obtuse observation)...
Click to expand...

...lol?

my thinking is that if there was a formula change, it was back earlier, again, somewhere in the 60's or 70's...
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There actually WAS a change way back then. There were complaints of the lead used in paints and dyes, and because of this Master switched to a different dye for some of their chalks. But, here's the thing, traditional blue chalk wasn't one of them. The blue chalk formula never changed.

And, hmmm...where is it publicized that they changed the label due to 9/11, I guess I missed that notification...other than hearsay and conjecture...can you produce any documentation from Tweeten that supports your intellectual thought process...or are you just repeating what you've heard and think...as congenial guesswork...
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Congenial means friendly, pleasant, easy to get along with. So "congenial guesswork" doesn't make any sense. Between that, and the 'evolutionary timing' stuff, It sounds like you're trying too hard to sound smart.

Nothing personal but that's a bad habit, it actually backfires and makes you sound less smart. Just write normally... if you know what you're talking about, people will respect what you write. If you don't, then using three long words instead of one short one won't help you.

Now, as for "am I repeating what I heard"...well, how much homework did you do on this topic?
Because all you have to do is run a search on this forum and you'll find this info has been posted over and over again.

This is straight from Skip Nemecek, the president of Tweeten Fibre Co., who manufactures all Masters chalk. It was sent in a email directly to one of the AZ forum members, blakerandy. Here's a link to Randy's post and here's a copy & paste of the full email.

Hello Randy:

I have tired for years to put that one to bed and I just don't want to fan the flames so to speak. The bottom line is, the American Flag has nothing to do with our product other then to show pride as an American and as an American manufacturer after 9/11. What hurts my feelings is that some American somewhere started this ridicules rumor with no knowledge at all and all we wanted to do was show pride as Americans!

No one ever realizes that we continue to make both flag and non-flag Master on a random basis and I would challenge anyone to prove to me that their piece of chalk (without a flag on it) is 10 years old or 10 days old. And how come no one ever questioned Triangle...because we didn’t put a flag on it? Just absurd.

Sorry for the rant.

Cheers,
Tweeten Fibre Co., Inc.

Skip Nemecek,
President

(312) 733-7878 Phone
(312) 733-0767 Fax
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Good enough?
 
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