second ball break in 8-ball

[JoeW]

I gamble at home for $5.00 - $10.00 with friends I know well. Just enough to add tension but not enough to send anyone home broke. I guess that lets me out of the big leagues.

Seems that a couple of bucks on the line means that this is a game to take seriously for some folks. It is more about ego than about money. I have found that I like to gamble too much and that I always wind up loosing in the end so I don't gamble any more. Some people, like me, don't know when to quit pushing the edge and keep it up until they find the edge.

 

[mosconiac]

... Seems that when I am playing well in a league I can make the 8 about one in five tries....

One in five? Do you gamble?

Depending on the table, it can be made more often than that! I once made it three times in a row...and it was going about every third break on that table. In leagues once, on a different table, I made the 8 two out of three breaks.

BTW, on a 9' people tend to get psyched out and overhit the 2nd ball break and send the CB off the table.

 

[third_i]

On a semi-fast table I hit it about 50% and I'll pocket atleast one ball and get atleast 5 balls past center table. It just gives a much better spread. On a smaller, bar table I hit it maybe 60% and I get about the same spread.

 

[shotmaker]

You may hit ANY ball first in an 8 ball break, as long as 4 balls hit a rail.

I miscued once in a tournament and came off the foot end rail and hit the back of the rack, and broke them up, plus made a ball. My opponent jumped up and down, like a monkey in heat, went and got the TD, and nothing in the BCA rules prohibits you from hitting any ball in breaking, as long as 4 balls hit a rail. The match was hill-to-hill, and I ran out D ), and I imaqine he still has fond memories of me year later .....

Think of the possibilities ..... 14.1 starting break shots????

Apa rules specifically state that it is a foul to hit any other ball beyond the first two. I haven't been in the apa for a little while, but i don't think that has changed any

 

[longhair]

I gamble at home for $5.00 - $10.00 with friends I know well. Just enough to add tension but not enough to send anyone home broke. I guess that lets me out of the big leagues.

Seems that a couple of bucks on the line means that this is a game to take seriously for some folks. It is more about ego than about money. I have found that I like to gamble too much and that I always wind up loosing in the end so I don't gamble any more. Some people, like me, don't know when to quit pushing the edge and keep it up until they find the edge.

Joe,
I was teasing you, implying that you aren't correctly predicting your rate of success, and would therefore be an easy mark. Just playing.

 

[third_i]

Apa rules specifically state that it is a foul to hit any other ball beyond the first two. I haven't been in the apa for a little while, but i don't think that has changed any

but... that's... APA.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

What do you think is the best way to hit it? What speed and/or english?

As full as possible *without* hitting the head ball,
as hard as possible without sacrificing accuracy,
with *no* sidespin,
with just enough draw to bring the CB straight across the table (not maximum).

All the other stuff is smoke and mirrors, including all the overestimates of how many times a ball is made. I once hit 200 8-ball breaks in a row, 100 each using the head ball and second ball. I only made a ball on the break 1 in 3 times and never made the 8-ball.

Most people don't have a clue how well they really perform and consistently overestimate their actual level of success.

pj
chgo

 

[Johnnyt]

That's me "smoke and mirrors" Johnnyt

 

[Scott Lee]

Joe,
I was teasing you, implying that you aren't correctly predicting your rate of success, and would therefore be an easy mark. Just playing.

Teasing or not, you're correct! Making the 8 on the break, regardless of which ball you hit, is a 20-1 proposition...perhaps 10-1 for Efren or Francisco (on their BEST day). I'd bet game for game with anyone on earth breaking from anywhere legal, on pocketing the 8 on the break. However, I'd force them to bet LARGE, and then RETIRE after I busted them! Those who differ are welcome to look me up!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[mosconiac]

Depending on the table, it can be made more often than that! I once made it three times in a row...and it was going about every third break on that table. In leagues once, on a different table, I made the 8 two out of three breaks.

Although I agree that the 8OTB is generally a very low probablility, I stand behind my comments above. "iapoolguy" can back me up. The first event occured on his table (the table inside the bar area of his pool hall during someone's b-day party) and the second occured while I was sub'ing on his pool team.

 

[Scott Lee]

Although I agree that the 8OTB is generally a very low probablility, I stand behind my comments above. "iapoolguy" can back me up. The first event occured on his table (the table inside the bar area of his pool hall during someone's b-day party) and the second occured while I was sub'ing on his pool team.

mosconiac...Your own quote, "In league ONCE" says it all. Patrick Johnson's post is 100% accurate! I stand by what I said. If you ever want to take me up on my proposition, let me know! You can even have Jessie, or anybody else "sub" for you breaking, if you want!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.

 

[Johnnyt]

Teasing or not, you're correct! Making the 8 on the break, regardless of which ball you hit, is a 20-1 proposition...perhaps 10-1 for Efren or Francisco (on their BEST day). I'd bet game for game with anyone on earth breaking from anywhere legal, on pocketing the 8 on the break. However, I'd force them to bet LARGE, and then RETIRE after I busted them! Those who differ are welcome to look me up!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I agree and would be right beside you with money in hand until they go bust. I thought I read somewhere that a pro makes the 8OTB 1 in 32 times shooting from anywhere behind the line (but maybe that's in the box having to hit the headball first. If anyone is making the 8 under 20 to 1 on avg, it's the rack...not the breaker. Johnnyt

 

[JoeW]

Let's find out

What if we ran a study. Make 20 legal 8-ball breaks. Tell us what happened and the table size, and type of break (1st or 2nd) ball you used.

Let the data speak for itself.

30 breaks should give a better estimate but that is probably too many to ask for.

If we get 20+ posters who did it, I will put the stats together.

Here is the format copy and paste as needed.

8-Ball Break shot
Type of break (1st or 2nd ball*):
Table size:
Number of breaks:
Number of balls made on the break**:
Number of 8 balls made:

* If you use two different breaks fill out one form for each type.
** raw data, such as 0,2,0,1,1,2,3,0,0.

 

[dabarbr]

To make sure that the cue ball stays on the table you need to shoot the second ball as if you're trying to make it into the corner pocket and are drawing the cue ball to the center of the table. As if there were no other balls on the table.

You need to assure that the cue ball stays level to the table and keep it from jumping.

What creates the lift is when your cue stick in not level thus you are driving the cue ball into the table and causing it to jump.

When it jumps, ( I say jump because that's excatly what it is doing.) depending on what power you are using, the cue ball will hit the second ball either on the way up or on the way down. Either one may cause the cue ball to become airborne.

You need to strike the cue ball with a smooth level stroke and draw with low outside engllish.

I get my share of eight balls on the break and normally get a very decent seperation of the balls. I have been breaking this way for over 50 years and never had a reason to change. If my cue ball leaves the table, which is very rare, it's because I got careless and didn't followed my own instructions.

 

[dabarbr]

This is an added note to my previous reply.

In order to have your cue stick level with it being so close to the rail you need to rest your cue stick on the table with no part of your hand underneath it. This will help in keeping it as lever as possable.