Setting Up A Pro Tour

[Johnnyt]

Has there ever been any serious talk by the top players here in the USA to form their own tour made up of US players only? They could start with just 16 players with entry fee from $500 to? Have the dates the week before or after a major tournament that most go to anyway (before would be better).

I’m sure a poolroom in the area would be happy to have a top pro tournament at their room and might even throw in a few bucks added. I’m sure the promoter of the major tournament would be happy for the interest it would bring to his tournament. Maybe a sponsor or two could be found to add a little more to the pot…that would help a lot.

Players could be added from a list of major tournaments that they do well in…sort of like the points for the Mosconi Cup does. I can’t see how a few top players can’t get together and pull this off unless top players don’t want to play top players. Johnnyt

 

[kvinbrwr]

Has there ever been any serious talk by the top players here in the USA to form their own tour made up of US players only? They could start with just 16 players with entry fee from $500 to? Have the dates the week before or after a major tournament that most go to anyway (before would be better).

I’m sure a poolroom in the area would be happy to have a top pro tournament at their room and might even throw in a few bucks added. I’m sure the promoter of the major tournament would be happy for the interest it would bring to his tournament. Maybe a sponsor or two could be found to add a little more to the pot…that would help a lot.

Players could be added from a list of major tournaments that they do well in…sort of like the points for the Mosconi Cup does. I can’t see how a few top players can’t get together and pull this off unless top players don’t want to play top players. Johnnyt

JT

As the PGA Tour proved, it can't be set up or organized by the players. What you get that way is what we have, fractionated mini regional tours. All the players have to join together, but they can't be the governing body, they have to be governed, and for that you need a sponsor. Barry Behrman had Pepsi ponying up a bit for the US Open, which was really the strongest showing by a promoter and sponsor I've seen in a long time. What was our players' union's response ? threaten strike over seeding and payouts (interesting considering the Open is the best paying venue they have) or some other imaginary "issues". Enjoy PPV and streaming because pool players are square in the way of our sport getting marketed to the masses. Thank god for TAR, CSI, Accustats (and the US Open really).

Kevin

 

[Johnnyt]

JT

As the PGA Tour proved, it can't be set up or organized by the players. What you get that way is what we have, fractionated mini regional tours. All the players have to join together, but they can't be the governing body, they have to be governed, and for that you need a sponsor. Barry Behrman had Pepsi ponying up a bit for the US Open, which was really the strongest showing by a promoter and sponsor I've seen in a long time. What was our players' union's response ? threaten strike over seeding and payouts (interesting considering the Open is the best paying venue they have) or some other imaginary "issues". Enjoy PPV and streaming because pool players are square in the way of our sport getting marketed to the masses. Thank god for TAR, CSI, Accustats.

Kevin

Not that I agree on how they did it but it was about players getting paid after the show. The Pepsi at the US 9-ball Open was a local Pepsi distributer I believe. Johnnyt

 

[kvinbrwr]

Not that I agree on how they did it but it was about players getting paid after the show. The Pepsi at the US 9-ball Open was a local Pepsi distributer I believe. Johnnyt

Yes I understand. The players were upset that their largest payout had to come after the fact. The promoter needed to pay them that way because he didn't have the front money to pay out immediately and didn't want to lower the prize fund. To me it looked like the players shooting themselves in the feet, demanding an immediate guaranteed payout could only serve to make the prize fund smaller. Treating Behrman as if he had the money certainly didn't make him have the money (which he doesn't). So what's his choice in order to give the players a guaranteed on the spot pay-out besides making the prize fund smaller (or raising the entry money how would that have worked for them?). Its not like Behrman ever stiffed anyone and they treated him like a deadbeat.

Not to beat a dead horse, but the players messed with the odds-makers in Vegas and ruined Vegas as a true venue for a game based on gambling.

Kevin

 

[Johnnyt]

Yes I understand. The players were upset that their largest payout had to come after the fact. The promoter needed to pay them that way because he didn't have the front money to pay out immediately and didn't want to lower the prize fund. To me it looked like the players shooting themselves in the feet, demanding an immediate guaranteed payout could only serve to make the prize fund smaller. Treating Behrman as if he had the money certainly didn't make him have the money (which he doesn't). So what's his choice in order to give the players a guaranteed on the spot pay-out besides making the prize fund smaller (or raising the entry money how would that have worked for them?). Its not like Behrman ever stiffed anyone and they treated him like a deadbeat.

Kevin

I don't believe you know all the history with the players getting paid over the years. Johnnyt

 

[kvinbrwr]

I don't believe you know all the history with the players getting paid over the years. Johnnyt

Johnnyt

You are right, I don't know anywhere close to all the history of players getting paid over the years.

What I think I know is that no US Open has started with Behrman owing prize money from a previous year. If that's wrong, well I think wrong.

Thanks

Kevin

 

[macguy]

Has there ever been any serious talk by the top players here in the USA to form their own tour made up of US players only? They could start with just 16 players with entry fee from $500 to? Have the dates the week before or after a major tournament that most go to anyway (before would be better).

I’m sure a poolroom in the area would be happy to have a top pro tournament at their room and might even throw in a few bucks added. I’m sure the promoter of the major tournament would be happy for the interest it would bring to his tournament. Maybe a sponsor or two could be found to add a little more to the pot…that would help a lot.

Players could be added from a list of major tournaments that they do well in…sort of like the points for the Mosconi Cup does. I can’t see how a few top players can’t get together and pull this off unless top players don’t want to play top players. Johnnyt

If the players could agree to get along, they could set up a tour that would be more like a carnival or a rodeo. It can be made up of no more then a dozen players that take the show on the road with the field filled in by local players or other pros who are not part of the organization. Members would be obligated to play.

It would be set up so it would move in a circuit and not just randomly all over the country. They could have sponsors both nationally and locally. They would need an advance man and basically have the tour. Entry fees would be minimal for members with larger fees for random players. It would be essentially a traveling show. They could do clinics that they would charge for and anything else they could think of to make it profitable. The players would share in the profits.

It is nothing new, they would not be reinventing the wheel. Call it barnstorming if you will a form of entertainment that has been done for a couple hundred years. Same players, different cities. You know, this kind of thing could actually draw a real sponsor. Appearances on Letterman, Leno or any other shows, local and national are not out of the question. Rivalries could form and they could add match play to the agenda. Done right they could put together a real show that could make them all money.

 

[Johnnyt]

Johnnyt

You are right, I don't know anywhere close to all the history of players getting paid over the years.

What I think I know is that no US Open has started with Behrman owing prize money from a previous year. If that's wrong, well I think wrong.

Thanks

Kevin

Danny H went more than a year w/o being paid and I think it was more like 3 years. I believe there are others but I don't know for sure. Johnnyt

 

[kvinbrwr]

Danny H went more than a year w/o being paid and I think it was more like 3 years. I believe there are others but I don't know for sure. Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Boy that Danny sure has the worst luck with promoters doesn't he? 3 years ? Behrman must have stiffed loads of players in that amount of time. I mean it wouldn't make sense that he'd just single Danny out would it?

I sure was wrong in what I thought.

Thanks

Kevin

 

[King T]

No players!

We dont have any players that have the kind of appeal that sponsers want to get behind..., no sponsers, no cash and while the spomsers might get behind the game if it was persented to them the right way, that hasnt been done yet.

If we had a few players that well represented themselves there would be a chance for a sponsor to make money, there is no such person in our sport. In America the game I love is a mess, with little hope in sight.

 

[azhousepro]

That was not a US Open that Danny didn't get paid for.

Mike

Danny H went more than a year w/o being paid and I think it was more like 3 years. I believe there are others but I don't know for sure. Johnnyt

 

[Pushout]

It would have to not be run by the players. They've proven over and over that they can embarrass themselves by screwing it up. Have to be someone running it who is not a pro player. Someone with the organizational skills, for a start.

 

[The Renfro]

Danny H went more than a year w/o being paid and I think it was more like 3 years. I believe there are others but I don't know for sure. Johnnyt

Johnnyt,

Don't mix green grapes and purple grapes.... Barry has to my knowledge never stiffed any of the "players"..... He has had a history of slow paying the top finishers but none of them ever let without being paid their expenses plus a hefty chunk...

Harriman's beef was/is over the first attempt at doing a Master's 9ball event in 2001... This was a BRADY Berhman event... Not Barry..

Please take note that Barry and Shannon now handle the US Open and Brady is no longer involved with anything tournament related.......

 

[Johnnyt]

Johnnyt,

Don't mix green grapes and purple grapes.... Barry has to my knowledge never stiffed any of the "players"..... He has had a history of slow paying the top finishers but none of them ever let without being paid their expenses plus a hefty chunk...

Harriman's beef was/is over the first attempt at doing a Master's 9ball event in 2001... This was a BRADY Berhman event... Not Barry..

Please take note that Barry and Shannon now handle the US Open and Brady is no longer involved with anything tournament related.......

You are so right. I stand corrected. Johnnyt

 

[Paul Dayton]

Players representing themselves well

We dont have any players that have the kind of appeal that sponsers want to get behind..., no sponsers, no cash and while the spomsers might get behind the game if it was persented to them the right way, that hasnt been done yet.

If we had a few players that well represented themselves there would be a chance for a sponsor to make money, there is no such person in our sport. In America the game I love is a mess, with little hope in sight.

The one player in the last 40 years who really understood business and represented himself well enough for sponsors to spend big bucks was Steve Mizerak with his Miller commercials. Different times to be sure but still he was the only one to do it and it had to be more than just practice! practice! practice!

 

[Renegade_56]

As surprising as this may sound, I honestly think that the slew of mini tours we have are exactly what we need, but it needs to be better organized. We need stats of head to head play and a points system for ranking players and for seeding players. Basically the foundation is already laid, but not in a suitable fashion as to be a national organization, but more like farm teams in pro baseball. You could start out with 3 or 4 major events a year that pull from the top players of the minitours, but hold the events in public places, fairground buildings, arenas, convention centers, etc,,,Pool can only be so big as long as the only pool available is poolplayers watching poolplayers play. In public venues you can get public, many of which will not go to a crowded poolroom to watch, but they very well may go out to a different public atmosphere to watch,,,,who knows, some may even take up interest in pool. Once you start getting John Q Public interested, then pool starts bringing in NPM, Non Players Money, which will help grow the game as a whole. This same Top Pool Players Tour could and should contribute to charities, youth play, etc,,,,,,that's the kind of things that get sponsor's attention. Sponsor's like to give to those who give back.

 

[Dan Harriman]

Correct

Johnnyt,

Don't mix green grapes and purple grapes.... Barry has to my knowledge never stiffed any of the "players"..... He has had a history of slow paying the top finishers but none of them ever let without being paid their expenses plus a hefty chunk...

Harriman's beef was/is over the first attempt at doing a Master's 9ball event in 2001... This was a BRADY Berhman event... Not Barry..

Please take note that Barry and Shannon now handle the US Open and Brady is no longer involved with anything tournament related.......

This is accurate Berry Behrman owes me zero $, Charlie Williams promised me a plaque for the only pro 9 ball tournament I ever won and says he has changed his mind cause I have had personal problems in my past - lamo excuse. Berry's son on the other hand does owe me some money and that is why I choose to not play in the US Open as his son DOES help him promote the event or is there helping out with seating the last time I played there (probably for good as Brady is not worth dealing with) I have trouble competing in an envireonment that is unethical. Brady and Charlie Williams both are not men who keep their word from my experience, they both need to realize how important it is to not make excuses for being unable to keep their word - that is the way dead-beat losers operate.

 

[Hungarian]

Barry Behrman had Pepsi ponying up a bit for the US Open, which was really the strongest showing by a promoter and sponsor I've seen in a long time. What was our players' union's response ? threaten strike over seeding and payouts (interesting considering the Open is the best paying venue they have) or some other imaginary "issues".

Yes, but Barry is one promoter with one venue and one maybe two events per year. This is the problem without having a governing body. Pepsi or any other major Sponsor can't spread their wings over the entire industry without negotiating dozens of mini sponsorships. And why would they do that pro actively? They wouldn't. So it would require all of the promoters to pursue the major sponsors. And each promoter has a different skill set and ability to reach out to the major sponsors to even begin negotiations. There is no glue holding everything together for a cohesive effort. As for Barry, and most other sponsors, they are more interested in Pepsi putting incremental money in their pockets. If some money is left over the players might get a jelly roll at the end of the day. Yes, pool in America sucks...

 

[Scaramouche]

Snooker was in the same position years ago.
A program was created by the BBC called Pot Black. - a single frame per show
It filmed in one day, the results kept secret, and was broadcast weekly.
Basically it started as filler between other sports in the schedule.
It led to a surge in popularity and introduced the players to the general public.

And it died, possibly from players' greed.

http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Transcripts/s1105175.htm

 

[kvinbrwr]

This is accurate Berry Behrman owes me zero $, Charlie Williams promised me a plaque for the only pro 9 ball tournament I ever won and says he has changed his mind cause I have had personal problems in my past - lamo excuse. Berry's son on the other hand does owe me some money and that is why I choose to not play in the US Open as his son DOES help him promote the event or is there helping out with seating the last time I played there (probably for good as Brady is not worth dealing with) I have trouble competing in an envireonment that is unethical. Brady and Charlie Williams both are not men who keep their word from my experience, they both need to realize how important it is to not make excuses for being unable to keep their word - that is the way dead-beat losers operate.

Danny

Your boycott of the US Open is because you had a poor experience with the guy who handles the seating? Do you feel your not playing will in any way effect the 2 guys you mentioned realizing what you feel they need to realize?

Thanks

Kevin