shaft consruction question

socks

socks

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
when dealing with solid shafts, not the hollowed out stuff like predator or ob1 etc, is there any real benifit to the radial lamitate construction over a 1 piece hard rock maple shaft?

also, since the low deflection craze, has anyone experimented with drilling out the front few inches of shafts, 1 piece or otherwise, to different ids and trying them out with or without fillings?

as example, maybe like tried like having a 3/8 tennon (i think thats standard right?) drilled out 2-3 inches or so with like 1/16 thru 3/32 or so id then left as is or filled up with various low mass stuff like maybe great stuff or soemthing and then seeing what kind of efects and hit quality is produced?

would that maybe be a bad idea to try out? what do ya'll think?
 
i tried a royce burnel (i think i spelled that wrong) anyway he's the maker of ob1 shafts. he apparently used to make cues. i got a chance to play with one, which looked pretty good much better than what they're making now, i'm pretty sure that the front of both shafts i tried were hollowed out and filled with something. there was a slight difference in the very front near the ferruel where it looked like the wood was moving inward. it might have been filled with something but i'm not sure. anyway the cue spun the crap out of the cueball. it was a little heavy for me though.

anyway i've heard of other cuemakers doing this before too. no names just heard that other people have run into this
 
yes, ob1 shafts as well as predator shafts are hollowed out in the front end. predator leaves thiers hollow and uses a liquid phonelic to line the inside walls for stability and ob1 fills thiers with some sort of noise and vibration dampening foam. they both also core thiers with a very large id leaving a very thin tennon wall.

my question was more really in regards to experimintation with 1 piece shafts and smaller ids for thicker tennon sidewalls along with varias houshold/homedepot substances that could be injected in there.

i'm really just thinking out loud on all that. my primary question was in regards to laminated verse 1 piece as i need to have a new shaft made for my joss and from my research, there is roughly a 50-80 dollar differance.
 
socks said:
yes, ob1 shafts as well as predator shafts are hollowed out in the front end. predator leaves thiers hollow and uses a liquid phonelic to line the inside walls for stability and ob1 fills thiers with some sort of noise and vibration dampening foam. they both also core thiers with a very large id leaving a very thin tennon wall.

my question was more really in regards to experimintation with 1 piece shafts and smaller ids for thicker tennon sidewalls along with varias houshold/homedepot substances that could be injected in there.

i'm really just thinking out loud on all that. my primary question was in regards to laminated verse 1 piece as i need to have a new shaft made for my joss and from my research, there is roughly a 50-80 dollar differance.
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maybe i didn't state it clear enough. the cue i'm talking about was made before ob1 was around. it was a 1 piece shaft, i really thought i said that maybe i forgot to type it. either way i was saying that i've run into other people that say they've had cues made by cuemakers who've done this to 1 piece shafts.
 
I've experimented to no end. I've drilled 6-8" out of the front. All I can say is....the lighter you keep the front end...the less deflection. With that said....I must also say doing so does indeed hurt the "hit" or tone of the cue when striking the cueball. As for the radial shafts....they are just that....radial consistancy. A traditional 1pc shaft grows a certain way and the grain is different depending on which way you hold it. Thats why Moochie put the dots on the shafts....if you hold it the same, it'll always hit the same. Radial spliced shafts are meant to perform the same no matter what position its in. Now....like I said before...having said that....very, very few players...if any....could tell a difference...especially if blindfolded. If you are an A player then you will adjust to your equipment and play A speed whether its with a traditional shaft, radial, or even flat lam. If built correctly...with quality parts....ferrrule, tip....then they all are capable of winning the US Open...in the correct hands.;)
 
i would think that a carbon fiber rod would do pretty good in there.i have been meaning to try,but haven't had time.i think a solid rod of CF maybe 8" or so long would lower the deflection a hair and should be pretty good tonally.lots of musicians are using carbon fiber now ofr the excellent tone.

i have seen some guys using carbon fiber tubes in the first 8" or so,but i have never seen one in person.

maple is pretty light though so i would think the only thing strong enough and actually lighter than Maple would be carbon fiber,adn it isn't cheap.i bought a 2 foot rod for joint pins and it was $50.
 
Varney Cues said:
I've experimented to no end. I've drilled 6-8" out of the front. All I can say is....the lighter you keep the front end...the less deflection. With that said....I must also say doing so does indeed hurt the "hit" or tone of the cue when striking the cueball. As for the radial shafts....they are just that....radial consistancy. A traditional 1pc shaft grows a certain way and the grain is different depending on which way you hold it. Thats why Moochie put the dots on the shafts....if you hold it the same, it'll always hit the same. Radial spliced shafts are meant to perform the same no matter what position its in. Now....like I said before...having said that....very, very few players...if any....could tell a difference...especially if blindfolded. If you are an A player then you will adjust to your equipment and play A speed whether its with a traditional shaft, radial, or even flat lam. If built correctly...with quality parts....ferrrule, tip....then they all are capable of winning the US Open...in the correct hands.;)
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I've got to agree with you Kevin on most if not all that you just said. Around 1996 or 1997, I had my shop in Col. OH. Their was a very good player there from Detroit who's wife was on the Pro tour. He made a trip back to Detroit and ran into a fellow who he had grew up with and who developed the Predator shaft. He gave George a half dozen or so of the Predator shafts for both him and his wife. In explaining the shafts attributes to George, the inventor told George that the splines never did anything for the shaft but was a selling point only as people wouldn't want to spend that kind of money on a plain shaft. I don't know if this scenario is factual or not but this is what George told me when he came in with the shafts and we were discussing them.

On another note, Jim Buss, it is said, once experimented around with the squirt on shafts and put in a brass bar into the front of a shaft. It is said that when this shaft was used with english, the cue ball would deflect something like a foot.

Dick
 
On another note, Jim Buss, it is said, once experimented around with the squirt on shafts and put in a brass bar into the front of a shaft. It is said that when this shaft was used with english, the cue ball would deflect something like a foot.

Dick
I tested a copy of that made by Judd Fuller. I think Jim did that after a rumore going around was that Pred shafts had TITANIUM inserts.
So he put some weight in front and laughed at everyone who tried to get a 3-rail shape on one shot.
We even had Efren shoot it one time. He tried twice and missed the side of the ball completely twice. He was so peed off he threw the cue.:D
You could easily make one with buckshots in front of the shaft.
 
Varney Cues said:
I've experimented to no end. I've drilled 6-8" out of the front. All I can say is....the lighter you keep the front end...the less deflection. With that said....I must also say doing so does indeed hurt the "hit" or tone of the cue when striking the cueball. As for the radial shafts....they are just that....radial consistancy. A traditional 1pc shaft grows a certain way and the grain is different depending on which way you hold it. Thats why Moochie put the dots on the shafts....if you hold it the same, it'll always hit the same. Radial spliced shafts are meant to perform the same no matter what position its in. Now....like I said before...having said that....very, very few players...if any....could tell a difference...especially if blindfolded. If you are an A player then you will adjust to your equipment and play A speed whether its with a traditional shaft, radial, or even flat lam. If built correctly...with quality parts....ferrrule, tip....then they all are capable of winning the US Open...in the correct hands.;)
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it'd be hard to tell blind folded that's the truth. how're you going to know if you made the shot, or even hit the object ball. i know i can tell the difference between the LD shafts and traditional shafts at least the ones i've tried.
 
masonh said:
i would think that a carbon fiber rod would do pretty good in there.i have been meaning to try,but haven't had time.i think a solid rod of CF maybe 8" or so long would lower the deflection a hair and should be pretty good tonally.lots of musicians are using carbon fiber now ofr the excellent tone.

i have seen some guys using carbon fiber tubes in the first 8" or so,but i have never seen one in person.

maple is pretty light though so i would think the only thing strong enough and actually lighter than Maple would be carbon fiber,adn it isn't cheap.i bought a 2 foot rod for joint pins and it was $50.
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i'm pretty sure that' show mezz does their hp and hp2 shafts
 
masonh said:
i would think that a carbon fiber rod would do pretty good in there.
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Cuetec beat you to it. I had some experimental shafts from Allison that had an insert like you mentioned....with wood over the inserts & the wood was not with the classic Cuetec coating. To me....they were nothing special. When compared side by side I much rather prefered the "hit" of the standard Cuetec shafts. If I'm not mistaken these are now what Cuetec offers as the "Thunderbolt" shafts.
I too experimented with adding weight in the shaft directly behind the ferrule. I had heard Harvey Martin did this thinking it kept the tip on the ball for an instant longer. These were the absolute worst performing shafts I had ever made....they did make nice joint protectors though.:D
Hey...if you never experiment....you'll never learn to improve.
 
Varney Cues said:
Cuetec beat you to it. I had some experimental shafts from Allison that had an insert like you mentioned....with wood over the inserts & the wood was not with the classic Cuetec coating. To me....they were nothing special. When compared side by side I much rather prefered the "hit" of the standard Cuetec shafts. If I'm not mistaken these are now what Cuetec offers as the "Thunderbolt" shafts.
I too experimented with adding weight in the shaft directly behind the ferrule. I had heard Harvey Martin did this thinking it kept the tip on the ball for an instant longer. These were the absolute worst performing shafts I had ever made....they did make nice joint protectors though.:D
Hey...if you never experiment....you'll never learn to improve.
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http://dzcues.com/images/graphite_inserts.jpg
DZ's on it.
Also Edwin Reyes did carbon fiber tube before. I have one of his shafts.
 
There is an advantage to laminated shafts, but it may not be what you are looking for. We are cutting down Maple trees, as fast as they can grow. Couple that with the fact the global warming has caused trees to grow faster than they used to. Laminated shafts are the way of the future (in my opinoin). Vertually all of the laminated shafts are useable as apossed to 30 % of solid Maple shaft blanks. YES there is an advantage...JER
 
I also wanted to expand briefly on my experiment on adding weight behind the ferrule like Harvey Martin....some of you may want to experiment yourself. I did find that it broke the balls incredible....really an added element of POP to the break. While it hit terrible and I deemed it worthless on a playing shaft...I was quite excited after breaking the balls. Until....I tried to jump a ball with that shaft on my j/b. Good grief...it wouldn't get the ball up at all...not in the slightest...absolutely worthless on a j/b cue. It may very well have some merit on a break only cue that would never be used to attemp a jump shot. Just my 2 cents. :)
Also...I agree with Jerry....laminated shafts will become the standard in the very near future as we simply run out of quality shaftwood.
 
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