shaft size, does it matter?

mannydawg

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shaft size, need help?

does the size of the shaft really matter for a break cue? i know alot of people suggest a bigger size is better than a smaller because you get less action on the cue ball. i dont know if it is true. and also is there more risk to breaking the shaft if you go with lets say a 12 compared to a 13? what do you guys think? i am getting a break cue and i wanted to know what size you guys think i should go with?
 
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does the size of the shaft really matter for a break cue? i know alot of people suggest a bigger size is better than a smaller because you get less action on the cue ball. i dont know if it is true. and also is there more risk to breaking the shaft if you go with lets say a 12 compared to a 13? what do you guys think?

Hello,

My current breaker is just under 14mm and the hit has power (It is also a jumper too). However, a little accidental english and the cueball is off line. I would love to try the BK2 because many rave about it and it's supposed to be designed to compensate for those slight miss hits. I can't really imagine breaking with anything under 13mm though. I would also like to check out the new breakers from Gulyassy and Samsara.
 
Hello,

My current breaker is just under 14mm and the hit has power (It is also a jumper too). However, a little accidental english and the cueball is off line. I would love to try the BK2 because many rave about it and it's supposed to be designed to compensate for those slight miss hits. I can't really imagine breaking with anything under 13mm though. I would also like to check out the new breakers from Gulyassy and Samsara.

idk i dont like the feel of a thick shaft, i have broken once or twice with my playing cue and its about a 12 and a half and hit solid. i once used a house cue and it was a 12 and i was shattering the balls i am purchasing a custom break cue and wanted to know if i there is a reason to go with a 13 rather than a 12 because the maker said i should go with a 13 just wanted more people to confirm it.
 
Hello,

My current breaker is just under 14mm and the hit has power (It is also a jumper too). However, a little accidental english and the cueball is off line. I would love to try the BK2 because many rave about it and it's supposed to be designed to compensate for those slight miss hits. I can't really imagine breaking with anything under 13mm though. I would also like to check out the new breakers from Gulyassy and Samsara.

i think it does account for the unintended english but the english is still there. the cue ball takes off if it hits the rail after the break
 
profile and diameter

idk i dont like the feel of a thick shaft, i have broken once or twice with my playing cue and its about a 12 and a half and hit solid. i once used a house cue and it was a 12 and i was shattering the balls i am purchasing a custom break cue and wanted to know if i there is a reason to go with a 13 rather than a 12 because the maker said i should go with a 13 just wanted more people to confirm it.

The taper and profile have a great deal to do with how well a shaft transfers power too. If you like your twelve and a half mm playing cue you might consider the same size tip on your break cue, a little faster taper in the "pro section" and a parabolic arc near the joint to give it a little more spine.

Decreasing the tip's radius effects the size of the sweet spot. If you rarely use much spin on break shots you might consider a quarter radius instead of a nickel or dime. I strongly recommend a nickel radius or larger, bigger sweet spot and a better transfer of force than a dime radius tip.

Hu
 
With a thicker shaft, I would think there would be less deflection, meaning unintentional english is lessen, also, the energy transfer would transfer better with a thicker shaft. A stiffer, fuller hit. The shaft size matters, but as for people saying about getting a super heavy break cue, that is a myth, because a break needs speed, and with too heavy a cue, the speed would be reduced. A thicker shaft also doesn't warp as easy. Mainly, a break cue is used so you don't put too much of a load on your playing shaft, incase you crack a ferrule, warp/break the shaft, mushroom the tip, glase it over, etc. Hope this helps. Happy shooting! :)

Chino
 
The taper and profile have a great deal to do with how well a shaft transfers power too. If you like your twelve and a half mm playing cue you might consider the same size tip on your break cue, a little faster taper in the "pro section" and a parabolic arc near the joint to give it a little more spine.

Decreasing the tip's radius effects the size of the sweet spot. If you rarely use much spin on break shots you might consider a quarter radius instead of a nickel or dime. I strongly recommend a nickel radius or larger, bigger sweet spot and a better transfer of force than a dime radius tip.

Hu

thank you and well ive been thinking if im going to use it to break only and well its going to have a phenolic tip i might play it pretty flat just to increase the sweet spot and get a solder hit. would a flat tip do that?
 
does the size of the shaft really matter for a break cue? i know alot of people suggest a bigger size is better than a smaller because you get less action on the cue ball. i dont know if it is true. and also is there more risk to breaking the shaft if you go with lets say a 12 compared to a 13? what do you guys think? i am getting a break cue and i wanted to know what size you guys think i should go with?

It doesn't matter what we think. We think small to large depending on who is doing the thinking.
What does matter is what you think. If you think you have better control with a smaller size, then that's what you should use.

If I thought larger was better, like 13mm + (which I do for me) then that is what I use. It sounds like that size is to large for you so don't buy one.

As far as strength, unless you go extremely small it doesn't matter. The builder should know when the ferrule thickness is to thin to use as a break cue.

As far as action on the c/b. You don't want any, unless you do. That is controlled buy where you hit the c/b, not shaft size. As I led to earlier, if you like a smaller shaft, then you will be more accurate with that size. Use what you like, not what others think.

Rod
 
It doesn't matter what we think. We think small to large depending on who is doing the thinking.
What does matter is what you think. If you think you have better control with a smaller size, then that's what you should use.

If I thought larger was better, like 13mm + (which I do for me) then that is what I use. It sounds like that size is to large for you so don't buy one.

As far as strength, unless you go extremely small it doesn't matter. The builder should know when the ferrule thickness is to thin to use as a break cue.

As far as action on the c/b. You don't want any, unless you do. That is controlled buy where you hit the c/b, not shaft size. As I led to earlier, if you like a smaller shaft, then you will be more accurate with that size. Use what you like, not what others think.

Rod

What he said. but i recommend 13mm
 
there are some very good points here already, but I would say that you should go bigger on the break cue. I shoot with a 12.75 cue shaft, but break with a 13.5 j and j jump break. I think you should have asked this question a little sooner, hehe. You would have been better off trying out a few different sized cues before you ordered a custom. I get a good break and pretty good jumps from my j and j, but thats just me.



Joe
 
does the size of the shaft really matter for a break cue? i know alot of people suggest a bigger size is better than a smaller because you get less action on the cue ball. i dont know if it is true. and also is there more risk to breaking the shaft if you go with lets say a 12 compared to a 13? what do you guys think? i am getting a break cue and i wanted to know what size you guys think i should go with?

It doesn't matter what we think. We think small to large depending on who is doing the thinking.
What does matter is what you think. If you think you have better control with a smaller size, then that's what you should use.

If I thought larger was better, like 13mm + (which I do for me) then that is what I use. It sounds like that size is to large for you so don't buy one.

As far as strength, unless you go extremely small it doesn't matter. The builder should know when the ferrule thickness is to thin to use as a break cue.

As far as action on the c/b. You don't want any, unless you do. That is controlled buy where you hit the c/b, not shaft size. As I led to earlier, if you like a smaller shaft, then you will be more accurate with that size. Use what you like, not what others think.

Rod
 
According to a recent Maxim poll, 88% of females think so;)

If it is a good shaft, it would still be tough to break it even at 12. My buddy breaks VERY hard with his playing cue and it can't be more than 11.5. I've been waiting for it to snap for 10 years. I usually go with a 13 though.
 
With a thicker shaft, I would think there would be less deflection, meaning unintentional english is lessen, also, the energy transfer would transfer better with a thicker shaft. A stiffer, fuller hit. The shaft size matters, but as for people saying about getting a super heavy break cue, that is a myth, because a break needs speed, and with too heavy a cue, the speed would be reduced. A thicker shaft also doesn't warp as easy. Mainly, a break cue is used so you don't put too much of a load on your playing shaft, incase you crack a ferrule, warp/break the shaft, mushroom the tip, glase it over, etc. Hope this helps. Happy shooting! :)

Chino

You're so cute. I remember when I was a noob too... I still am in a lot of ways lol. You should save this post and look at it again in two years.

If you have trouble staying center (or slightly below center) on the break get a smaller shaft. If you have good fundamentals, a straight stroke, and a powerful break get a thicker shaft. This is all IMO of course.

I highly suggest you just try various break cues that people in your league or pool hall have available. Despite one shaft's physical characteristics and resulting advantages you may simply prefer another because it is more comfortable. You NEVER know until you try.

Oh and J&J break cues average about $60 shipped on here so GET ONE. It's always good to have a spare.
 
thanks for the comments but i think i am going to go with a 13 because i'm afraid to break the ferrule or snap the shaft with my break.
 
Long-Winded...

The taper and profile have a great deal to do with how well a shaft transfers power too. If you like your twelve and a half mm playing cue you might consider the same size tip on your break cue, a little faster taper in the "pro section" and a parabolic arc near the joint to give it a little more spine.

Decreasing the tip's radius effects the size of the sweet spot. If you rarely use much spin on break shots you might consider a quarter radius instead of a nickel or dime. I strongly recommend a nickel radius or larger, bigger sweet spot and a better transfer of force than a dime radius tip.

Hu

Great advice, and I was going to mention this exact thing.

You mentioned you liked the breaking characteristics of the house cue with a small tip. The key there is that it does not have a pro taper on it! Snooker cues run ~10mm and are very stiff, because they almost exclusively run with a straight taper (or variation of).


i once used a house cue and it was a 12 and i was shattering the balls

Based on your experience, I would run the break tip 1/4-1/2mm above your playing cue. You won't notice it, and it allows room for grooming later, since the tip will be getting very mushroomed over time I'm sure.

...as for people saying about getting a super heavy break cue, that is a myth, because a break needs speed, and with too heavy a cue, the speed would be reduced. A thicker shaft also doesn't warp as easy. Chino

I agree totally with the weight issue. Get it as light as possible. The energy transfer formulas favor speed over mass. A slight increase in speed has a marked increase in energy, whereas a large increase in mass at the same speed has a small increase in energy transfer. (see Burne's [sp] second book- he explains it well) Plus, you normally cannot stroke the heavier cue with the same control as the lighter one, so accuracy suffers. We all know a solid (accurate) hit on the pack at low speed is far more effective that a fast-as-hell speed that glances off the head ball (and often into the corner...)

If you think you have better control with a smaller size, then that's what you should use.

Excellent advice. One of the main reasons we use our own cue at all is in great part psychological. If you KNOW it is better, it will be better. Get it?

As far as strength, unless you go extremely small it doesn't matter. The builder should know when the ferrule thickness is to thin to use as a break cue.

And why it is important to work with a builder who will work with you. I think you have that, now just find out if he will do a straight taper for you!

As far as action on the c/b. You don't want any, unless you do. That is controlled buy where you hit the c/b, not shaft size. As I led to earlier, if you like a smaller shaft, then you will be more accurate with that size. Use what you like, not what others think.

Rod

Yes! If you have a 'whippy' shaft, a slight mis-hit can make the unintended english too great. If the shaft is stiffer, this is lessened; HOWEVER, if you don't hit with ACCURACY it doesn't matter! The best cue in the world played poorly, will give poor results. This points back to weight as well- if you can stroke that heavier cue fast and accurately, great. But, you are not getting any REAL advantage from this; any advantage from a 'heavy' cue is psychological, which again, is not a bad thing.

In conclusion, I suggest 1/4-1/2mm over your playing cue diameter, with a straight taper on the shaft. Ferrule material up to the task and a very hard tip (compressed Triangle for example) and use a nickel radius as minimum; with a quarter radius an excellent idea (unless your accuracy is excellent).

That takes care of the equipment, now work on you! Get a good solid base, solid bridge, and PRACTICE BREAKING! It is not fun racking for an entire day, but you will be amazed how much good a full day of breaking will do for your game overall. You should be completely clam at the time of breaking. When I watch the players with really good strokes, that will stroke in what looks like a slow, soft manner and completely annihilate the rack. I strive for that myself- I used to "get my body" into the break, but that just made a mess (but more power transfer does happen). You loose the control.

BOTTOM LINE: regardless of anything else, you must hit the head ball accurately. Any advantage that works for you to get to that end is the right thing to do!
 
Great advice, and I was going to mention this exact thing.

You mentioned you liked the breaking characteristics of the house cue with a small tip. The key there is that it does not have a pro taper on it! Snooker cues run ~10mm and are very stiff, because they almost exclusively run with a straight taper (or variation of).




Based on your experience, I would run the break tip 1/4-1/2mm above your playing cue. You won't notice it, and it allows room for grooming later, since the tip will be getting very mushroomed over time I'm sure.



I agree totally with the weight issue. Get it as light as possible. The energy transfer formulas favor speed over mass. A slight increase in speed has a marked increase in energy, whereas a large increase in mass at the same speed has a small increase in energy transfer. (see Burne's [sp] second book- he explains it well) Plus, you normally cannot stroke the heavier cue with the same control as the lighter one, so accuracy suffers. We all know a solid (accurate) hit on the pack at low speed is far more effective that a fast-as-hell speed that glances off the head ball (and often into the corner...)



Excellent advice. One of the main reasons we use our own cue at all is in great part psychological. If you KNOW it is better, it will be better. Get it?



And why it is important to work with a builder who will work with you. I think you have that, now just find out if he will do a straight taper for you!



Yes! If you have a 'whippy' shaft, a slight mis-hit can make the unintended english too great. If the shaft is stiffer, this is lessened; HOWEVER, if you don't hit with ACCURACY it doesn't matter! The best cue in the world played poorly, will give poor results. This points back to weight as well- if you can stroke that heavier cue fast and accurately, great. But, you are not getting any REAL advantage from this; any advantage from a 'heavy' cue is psychological, which again, is not a bad thing.

In conclusion, I suggest 1/4-1/2mm over your playing cue diameter, with a straight taper on the shaft. Ferrule material up to the task and a very hard tip (compressed Triangle for example) and use a nickel radius as minimum; with a quarter radius an excellent idea (unless your accuracy is excellent).

That takes care of the equipment, now work on you! Get a good solid base, solid bridge, and PRACTICE BREAKING! It is not fun racking for an entire day, but you will be amazed how much good a full day of breaking will do for your game overall. You should be completely clam at the time of breaking. When I watch the players with really good strokes, that will stroke in what looks like a slow, soft manner and completely annihilate the rack. I strive for that myself- I used to "get my body" into the break, but that just made a mess (but more power transfer does happen). You loose the control.

BOTTOM LINE: regardless of anything else, you must hit the head ball accurately. Any advantage that works for you to get to that end is the right thing to do!

thanks for the information and well i do agree on the light cue i want mine to be as light as possible but since it has a heavy wood on the butt the lightest my builder might be able to go is maybe 18 if not 19.
 
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