Shaft thread depth question

Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hoping someone can hep me before I do something (else!) dumb.

I have a shaft that is 3/8x11...cue is the g-10 pin...looks like thread pictured on far R) of below pic.

Issue is, seems like the shaft is not drilled deeply enough, pin seems to top out right at the point where butt/ shaft begin to make contact (my other shafts have a little more turn before they are snug).

Am I ok if the tip of the pin mashes the inside center of the shaft a bit?
Do I need to have it tapped a bit deeper? Can I take a drill (tiny bit) and make the hole deeper myself?

Thanks as always, AZBros!
000_0178.JPG
 
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Measure the pin length...measure the hole depth. Determine exactly what differences you have. If need be you can make the hole deeper than the length of pin, which it should be.

Measure the diameter of the bullnose on the pin and use a drill just a few thou bigger to go deeper if necessary. You could do it by hand if you know what you're doing but it would be better in a lathe.
 
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Thank you, Sir!

As the kind of man who can take anything apart :o, I now search for someone who can drill my hole deeper!:eek:
 
Another option is using a Dremel and taking a bit off the top of the G10 pin. Here is a G10 pin that I shortened a bit...looks fine.
 

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Varney Cues said:
Another option is using a Dremel and taking a bit off the top of the G10 pin. Here is a G10 pin that I shortened a bit...looks fine.
Click to expand...

Didn't even occur to me that that could be done (duh).
If I did that, then the other shafts for the cue would then have holes too deep for the pin. Is that an issue- to have clearance between the pin/ top of shaft hole?

Now that I think about it, I got no itea how high a pin goes into a shaft hole. And I have like 5 shafts for the damn cue.

Now I gotta go home and poke all my holes!:eek:...see how deep they are (that's what she sed)
 
Black-Balled said:
If I did that, then the other shafts for the cue would then have holes too deep for the pin. Is that an issue- to have clearance between the pin/ top of shaft hole?(that's what she sed)
Click to expand...

I'm not a cue maker, but my Josey shaft is drilled about an inch longer than the pin. The only possible effect I've noticed is it seems to have a bit more tone than my other shafts.
 
angldemn said:
I'm not a cue maker, but my Josey shaft is drilled about an inch longer than the pin. The only possible effect I've noticed is it seems to have a bit more tone than my other shafts.
Click to expand...

Not questioning his methods but my personal opion is that would create a weak spot and anyone who bends there shaft on a big draw shot risks breaking the shaft there. my holes are about 1/16-1/8 deeper than the pin.


i would just take a little of the pin off like varney suggested. :thumbup: fairly easy job and you wont risk destroying the threads in your shaft.
 
Depending on the pin and the tap, some holes must be bored much deeper than others. A Radial pin shafts threaded hole is just about an inch deeper than the pin is long.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
Depending on the pin and the tap, some holes must be bored much deeper than others. A Radial pin shafts threaded hole is just about an inch deeper than the pin is long.

Dick
Click to expand...

My cue is radial. What makes the difference necessary?
 
angldemn said:
My cue is radial. What makes the difference necessary?
Click to expand...

The radial pin tap has a pilot on the front to guide the tap and the thread cutting part of the tap is like a tapered tap and then increases in depth to form the threads. These directions are directly from Uni-Loc, who produces the pins and taps:

1. Center drill to a 5/16 diameter
2. Bore a hole .312 diameter to a depth of 2.300.
3. Tap with radial tap 2.00 deep
4. Remove burrs

A radial pin that has been properly set into a prong has a length of 1.250" protruding from the joint face. This means that there is 1.050" of space between the end of pin and bottom of bored hole.

Dick
 
That dimension was brought to my attention by one of our fellow CMs.
I wasn't aware of the print until I noticed it one day on the Atlas site.
It's my considered opinion that the print is wrong.
The depth of 2.3" for a pin that is 1.25" long is unnecessary.
I drill the hole to a 1.625" depth then tap.
I've never had a Radial pin bottom-out or run out of threads in the hole.
I decided on the 1.625" depth by examining the pin & the tap both.
I'm not so sure that a hole depth of 1.5 wouldn't suffice.
Don't believe everything you read, even in blue-prints.
Before anyone calls me on it, yes, I'm well aware that the print was
drawn by Paul Costain himself, the owner of Uni-Loc.
I'm also aware that in a statement presented by Chris Hightower pertaining
to the Uni-QR, Paul speaks to the possibility of 2 full turns for the QR set.
I also challenge that statement. Prove it to yourself.
Take a Uni-QR pin and matching insert and tell me how many turns it takes to seat.
I can already tell you; 1-1/4 turns at best.
The way the Chinese are setting the pins & inserts, you're lucky to get 1 full turn.
Most times it's less.
It's been a common complaint that the Uni-QR can loosen during play.
With less than one thread making full contact, is it any wonder?
Just some thoughts and opinions.

KJ
 
rhncue said:
Depending on the pin and the tap, some holes must be bored much deeper than others. A Radial pin shafts threaded hole is just about an inch deeper than the pin is long.

Dick
Click to expand...

Not on my cues they are. :confused:
Just measured the depth of one I have laying around. It's at 1 9/16th, my radial pins are 1 3/8th long.
 
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I think this is right at around 1.5 to 1.6

KJ Cues said:
That dimension was brought to my attention by one of our fellow CMs.
I wasn't aware of the print until I noticed it one day on the Atlas site.
It's my considered opinion that the print is wrong.
The depth of 2.3" for a pin that is 1.25" long is unnecessary.
I drill the hole to a 1.625" depth then tap.
I've never had a Radial pin bottom-out or run out of threads in the hole.
I decided on the 1.625" depth by examining the pin & the tap both.
I'm not so sure that a hole depth of 1.5 wouldn't suffice.
Don't believe everything you read, even in blue-prints.
Before anyone calls me on it, yes, I'm well aware that the print was
drawn by Paul Costain himself, the owner of Uni-Loc.
I'm also aware that in a statement presented by Chris Hightower pertaining
to the Uni-QR, Paul speaks to the possibility of 2 full turns for the QR set.
I also challenge that statement. Prove it to yourself.
Take a Uni-QR pin and matching insert and tell me how many turns it takes to seat.
I can already tell you; 1-1/4 turns at best.
The way the Chinese are setting the pins & inserts, you're lucky to get 1 full turn.
Most times it's less.
It's been a common complaint that the Uni-QR can loosen during play.
With less than one thread making full contact, is it any wonder?
Just some thoughts and opinions.

KJ
Click to expand...

I also wander if the directions were 2.3in. for the pin install in the butt and it printed out the same for the shaft. I have been using the all thread G10 radial pins and I just measure the pin length after installation in the butt and make a sharpie mark on the drill, boring bar and the tap and end up with a very small hollow spot. A player on my nineball team ordered a poison cue and the radial pin is a little over 1/2 in. long and maybe 3 threads.--Leonard
 
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I've been drilling a 1.50" hole since I started using radials in the late '90's with no problems.

I would never make a shaft where the pin can bottom out in the shaft.
 
custom cue with radial pin

View attachment 206429View attachment 206422another question about radial pin cues, i bought a custom cue this year with a radial pin, one of the first things i noticed with this cue was the joint pin it just didnt look right and i never have owned a radial pin cue, well with that said i asked the cue maker about the pin to figure out why it was so long, and i was told bill stroud himself told him to do it this way it would give the shaft extra strength, the pin protrudes out of the joint face 1 7/16 and the shaft depth is 1 11/16 and one other thing i order custom joint protectors and had to ask to have them 3/8 counterbored x 3/16 deep
 
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ashesffdp said:
View attachment 206429View attachment 206422another question about radial pin cues, i bought a custom cue this year with a radial pin, one of the first things i noticed with this cue was the joint pin it just didnt look right and i never have owned a radial pin cue, well with that said i asked the cue maker about the pin to figure out why it was so long, and i was told bill stroud himself told him to do it this way it would give the shaft extra strength, the pin protrudes out of the joint face 1 7/16 and the shaft depth is 1 11/16 and one other thing i order custom joint protectors and had to ask to have them 3/8 counterbored x 3/16 deep
Click to expand...

It looks like a portion of the alignment barrel is sticking out in the pic you posted.

Here is a picture of the radial pin on uni-loc's site. I do not see that in this pic.

picture.php


http://uni-loc.com/uni-loc_joints_radial.php

The following Uni-loc web page:
http://uni-loc.com/install/Radial_Pin_Installation.pdf
lists the installation instructions for the radial pin. The instructions state:
6. EPOXY PIN IN PLACE 2.2 DEEP

Since the overall length of the pin is 3.5", the projection is 1.3". Furthermore, if you measure the pin from the very end to the alignment barrel, that length is 1 5/16", or 1.3125. That meas the barrel is completely recessed inside the face of the butt, at least by a very small amount, when installed to a 2.2" depth. According to Uni-loc's installation instructions, it appears your pin was not installed deep enough. I would suspect, like the jp's you mentioned, your shafts had to have a counterbore, or a really large center cut into them, for them to fully seat against the butt. To me, that is removing more material from the ID of the face of the shaft, which sounds like a weaker configuration, IMO.

Kelly
 
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