Shaft Wabble

TDub

TDub

I get the 8!!!
Silver Member
I was wndering if any of you could shed some light on what might cause shafts to warp? I recently bought a custom, my first one mind you, and the shaft now has a slight wabble in it. I have a great job keeping it in my case and it never spends time in the weather... not sure what could have caused it. I did have the shafts turned down to 12.75 wondered if that might have anything to do with it.
 
Where is this wobble happening..... Is the tip coming off the table or is it just a slight taper wobble which is a slight roll in the middle of the shaft.
 
TDub said:
Bout the middle of the shaft, tip is not coming off the table...
Click to expand...

I've seen this before, so I think I can help.
It sounds like what you have is a warped shaft...:)
I assume that we are talking about a wood shaft, and wood can warp, especially
if it involves anything billiard related....don't ask me why.

If you have any questions, or would like my opinion on shaft replacement, let me know.
I can help with that as well.
 
TDub said:
I was wndering if any of you could shed some light on what might cause shafts to warp? I recently bought a custom, my first one mind you, and the shaft now has a slight wabble in it. I have a great job keeping it in my case and it never spends time in the weather... not sure what could have caused it. I did have the shafts turned down to 12.75 wondered if that might have anything to do with it.
Click to expand...

Did you check for the wobble immediately after having the shaft turned down?

I don't like to turn down shafts for that reason.

Kim
 
The cuemaker turned it down... but i think that has something to do with it..

whammo57 said:
Did you check for the wobble immediately after having the shaft turned down?

I don't like to turn down shafts for that reason.

Kim
Click to expand...
 
shaft warp

if the shaft was turned down and was not sealed can cause this,it lets the wood draw moisture even in the open air.
 
treed said:
if the shaft was turned down and was not sealed can cause this,it lets the wood draw moisture even in the open air.
Click to expand...

Shafts that have been played for some time are hardly ever perfectly straight or round. Anyone that puts on tips knows that fact.

It is dangerous to try to turn down a shaft with lathe tools but some are successful and do it well. The problem is.... if the shaft is not perfectly straight or round, you take more off one side than the other and multiply the condition for the worse. If your tooling chatters, you make garbage.

The other way to do it just cut the tip and ferrule to the desired diameter and then sand the shaft to match. This can have the same bad effect as with tooling.

The small diameter tip hype is running rampant. I sold a cue to a player that wanted a full 13 mm shaft. I watched him effortlessly and consistantly make full table draw shots with it. A small diameter tip is simply not necessary to apply hairy english. It has a Kamui black med tip and he made me cut the tip down half way. (It hurt me to cut $10 off of a $20 tip)

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
Shafts that have been played for some time are hardly ever perfectly straight or round. Anyone that puts on tips knows that fact.

It is dangerous to try to turn down a shaft with lathe tools but some are successful and do it well. The problem is.... if the shaft is not perfectly straight or round, you take more off one side than the other and multiply the condition for the worse. If your tooling chatters, you make garbage.

The other way to do it just cut the tip and ferrule to the desired diameter and then sand the shaft to match. This can have the same bad effect as with tooling.

The small diameter tip hype is running rampant. I sold a cue to a player that wanted a full 13 mm shaft. I watched him effortlessly and consistantly make full table draw shots with it. A small diameter tip is simply not necessary to apply hairy english. It has a Kamui black med tip and he made me cut the tip down half way. (It hurt me to cut $10 off of a $20 tip)

Kim
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I needed to hear, I think in the future I willl go back to 13mm... thanks for all your input everyone.
 
You are probably worrying over nothing. Wood has a way of moving, period. A shaft may have a bit of taper roll one day due to humidity, or whatever, and be straight again the next. The best way to straighten it, and keep it straight as possible, is to hang it up by the tip end, when not in use. The diameter of the shaft, has nothing to do with it being straight.
My guess is, your shaft would have this problem even if you did'nt have it turned down. Taking a 1/4mm. off of a good shaft is nothing. Sounds to me like that shaft got taken from a square to a shaft way to fast in the first place. Either that, or this is'nt the first time it's moved thruout the process.
 
treed said:
if the shaft was turned down and was not sealed can cause this,it lets the wood draw moisture even in the open air.
Click to expand...

Even if you are sealing the wood no sealer is a barrier for moisture. A sealer may slow down the moisture moving into or out of the shaft. So I think if a shaft showes the warp after turning down it was either somehow bad work or the shaft wasn't stored long enough or in a wrong way before manufacturing.
 
danutz said:
The best way to straighten it, and keep it straight as possible, is to hang it up by the tip end, when not in use.
Click to expand...

I gotta say, I don't know too many that go home after league and hang their cue up....now I need to build a closet just for my cue storage.
97% of shafts out there have a WOBBLE, and I would go out on a limb to say it wasn't due to not hanging the cue up. Most cuemakers store their shafts while making them, in a cart just standing on end in their shop.
Also, if it was just done by a cuemaker, take it back, give them a chance to make it good, personally, a slight wobble in the middle won't ever be a reason to miss a shot, JMO.
I'm not trying to be condesending, and I hope it doesn't come out this way, but...
The Taper Roll?, IMO, there is no such thing as taper roll. If anyone believes it does exist, then explain what it really is, and how it happens? Any other material in the world that you machine that same taper into, doesn't do that, only a wood shaft, so if anything, it should be called maple roll or ash roll or purpleheart roll, etc. right? The Taper has nothing to do with it, it's just a term some cuemakers/sellers have come up with to sell a cue with shaft that has a slight warp in the middle. Simple as that.

People need to understand that wood can be a sponge for moisture, and it can have internal stresses and will move either slightly or in a big way depending how it's treated. It is possible for a shaft to warp once you take a bit off, especially if it was sealed in a set condition then recut, thereby opening the wood back up to the world and the conditions are now different. Winter to summer/summer to winter, dry to humid / humid to dry. I don't know who in this thread has ever built a cue or shaft, but I have some that are in my shop that move all the time. A couple are straight in the winter, but are warped in the summer humidity, then I have some that are totally opposite. I keep them around just to be able to really tell when the humidity changes.
I would bring the cue back and see what the maker will do to correct the wobble
Just my ramblings,
Good Luck,
Dave
Part-time hobbiest cue-maker
 
TDub said:
I was wndering if any of you could shed some light on what might cause shafts to warp? I recently bought a custom, my first one mind you, and the shaft now has a slight wabble in it. I have a great job keeping it in my case and it never spends time in the weather... not sure what could have caused it. I did have the shafts turned down to 12.75 wondered if that might have anything to do with it.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Just a guess, I think maybe the cue guy sanded the shaft and did not turn it down. If he tried to take some spine off the middle as well with too aggressive of a grit paper, the shaft may have pancaked a little. Not warped but elliptical when viewed in cross section in the questioned area. If you take a caliper and measure the diameter and spin it around in the questioned spot this will reveal if it is pancaked or not.

If that is the case you can't fix it. You just have to play with it and forget about it, or replace it if it bothers you.

The difference between 13mm and 12.75 is not much. Before anyone could ever think about turning a shaft with this scenario they would need to have the exact taper bar that matches perfectly and then they would have to carefully touch off at a point downstream of the joint as you can't mess around with a joint dia. ( very tough to blend into an existing contour with a CNC even if you have the G Code )

As a cue repair person for many years I encounter people who want to change their shaft taper because they have some Idea it will give them more action or they have small hands. My advise is that I will do it but I don't advise them to. It can lead to problems.

JMO,

Rick
 
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Are you seeing the wobble when you roll the shaft by its self?? If not it may be that the joint needs to be faced.
 
Dave38 said:
I gotta say, I don't know too many that go home after league and hang their cue up....now I need to build a closet just for my cue storage.
97% of shafts out there have a WOBBLE, and I would go out on a limb to say it wasn't due to not hanging the cue up. Most cuemakers store their shafts while making them, in a cart just standing on end in their shop.

The Taper Roll?, IMO, there is no such thing as taper roll. If anyone believes it does exist, then explain what it really is, and how it happens? Any other material in the world that you machine that same taper into, doesn't do that, only a wood shaft, so if anything, it should be called maple roll or ash roll or purpleheart roll, etc. right? The Taper has nothing to do with it, it's just a term some cuemakers/sellers have come up with to sell a cue with shaft that has a slight warp in the middle. Simple as that.

Just my ramblings,
Good Luck,
Dave
Part-time hobbiest cue-maker
Click to expand...

Dave, while i respect your opinion, i also disagree with it. These "shaft carts" are no better than leaning them in the corner. Other's can do as they wish, i will hang my wood on center, big end down;) Try it, you may find, as many others already know, it's the only way to go. As far as the taper roll goes, if a shaft is turning concentric on both ends, why does it necassarily have to be warped? Would'nt it be more likely that there was some tool push, and or uneven sanding done? IMO, if the shaft is concentric end to end, it is not warped, and can be fixed, in most cases.

Scott < who thinks wood can be stubborn, has a mind of it's own, and needs to be trained to stay straight from day one.:thumbup:
 
TDub said:
I was wndering if any of you could shed some light on what might cause shafts to warp? I recently bought a custom, my first one mind you, and the shaft now has a slight wabble in it. I have a great job keeping it in my case and it never spends time in the weather... not sure what could have caused it. I did have the shafts turned down to 12.75 wondered if that might have anything to do with it.
Click to expand...

with pro tapered shafts there's usually a little wobble in the shaft when you roll it anyway. idk why but it's almost always there. it doesn't really bother me as long as it isn't severe. anyway sounds like maybe having the shaft turned down was a mistake. maybe they took off too much at once or maybe it just wasn't meant to be.
 
danutz said:
Dave, while i respect your opinion, i also disagree with it. These "shaft carts" are no better than leaning them in the corner. Other's can do as they wish, i will hang my wood on center, big end down;) Try it, you may find, as many others already know, it's the only way to go. As far as the taper roll goes, if a shaft is turning concentric on both ends, why does it necassarily have to be warped? Would'nt it be more likely that there was some tool push, and or uneven sanding done? IMO, if the shaft is concentric end to end, it is not warped, and can be fixed, in most cases.

Scott < who thinks wood can be stubborn, has a mind of it's own, and needs to be trained to stay straight from day one.:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Scott,

Hanging wood is ok and storing shafts in a vertical cart is ok also.

If shaft wood were a viscous dense material like glass or slate they would have a problem in both situations either with elongation or vertical sagging at the bottom. Lucky they are an organic fibrous structure and don't react in such a way. JMO. I could be wrong.

Yes, glass is viscous. If you inspect thick plate glass that has been in a vertical position for 50 years or more, you will find it is thicker at the bottom than it is at the top or bottom. Viscosity giving way to gravity over time.

BTW, I don't think any of us have to worry about our stored shaft stock 50 years from now.:speechless:

Rick
 
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Shaft Follow up

I just wanted to follow up with everyone, I did contact the cuemaker about the wobble. I really wasnt concerned about it but it did frustrate me considering the cue was only 5 months old. It didnt really affect my game other than I knew it was there. Anyway, the cuemaker told me that he stood behind his stuff and would make another free of charge. Now that is service... could not beleive it considering I was going to pay for another anyway... This was my first custom and the way I was treated and the way the cue came out, I am totally hooked and am ready to buy another.
 
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