Shaft weight matter? My jacoby black arrived.

[Bavafongoul]

If Jacoby makes a CF shaft shaft that is 12.3mm, then you deserve and are entitled to get what you ordered.
You did not request a shaft that is 12.6 or. 12.7mm. You paid for a 12.3mm so send it back & ask for a 12.3mm.
Seybert’s is very reputable and you should wind up getting what you originally ordered. Don’t settle for any less.

 

[HawaiianEye]

How close can any of the carbon fiber shaft makers keep to a strict tolerance of weight and diameter?

Do they publish these specifications when you order a shaft?

 

[smoochie]

If Jacoby makes a CF shaft shaft that is 12.3mm, then you deserve and are entitled to get what you ordered.
You did not request a shaft that is 12.6 or. 12.7mm. You paid for a 12.3mm so send it back & ask for a 12.3mm.
Seybert’s is very reputable and you should wind up getting what you originally ordered. Don’t settle for any less.

Thank you, exactly what I was thinking.

 

[jrctherake]

Hello, you know my other thread when I was looking to buy a cf shaft, ended up buying a Jacoby black shaft, prior to buying I asked around and found that mostly the Jacoby black is 3.4 to 3.6 oz, which is nice a low, as low as my Meucci pro shaft.

Also, I know for a fact that the lower the weight, the lower the deflection.

So my Jacoby black arrived from Seybert's but it weights more than 4.1oz, keep in mind its the default length, i.e. 29

So mine is higher in weight, why the inconsistency? does this mean my CF is higher in deflection too? Should I speak to Mr.Jacoby about this, thanks.

EDIT: So I measured the diameter of shaft, I ordered a 12.3mm, my measurement with caliper showed 12.6 to 12.7 around these numbers, so I figure that what added the extra weight, most jacoby blacks are 3.4 to 3.5oz, but mine 4.1oz, so what to do now, should I just keep it even though I ordered a 12.3mm?

Total shaft weight is not a big factor with shafts.

I help with the R&D of a custom cue makers cf cues and I can promise you it is all about the front end design.

He has made shafts that are around 3 oz that were not very low in deflection. Then again, he has made some that are over 4 oz that were super low.

It's really easy to make a shaft to low in deflection with cf.

Deflection is not the enemy in pool.

A shaft with a little deflection is like having a "good girl" with a "little bit of bad".

Perfect mix.....

 

[jrctherake]

The shaft weight is important, especially with maple shafts.
There is a weight proportionality between the shaft & butt.

Match a light shaft with a heavy butt and the feel just sucks.
If the shaft weight is better matched, the outcome is better.

CF and other low deflection synthetic shafts are very different so
weight proportionality could be less important than maple shafts.

When talking deflection properties, the total shaft weight is not a factor.

As for the "feel" of a cue with a shaft that is lighter that say 16 to 17% of total cue weight, it will probably feel to butt heavy. On the other, a shaft the is greater than say 24ish% will start to feel front heavy.

lots of people prefer butt heavy, while other prefer forward heavy cues.

Me? I prefer a balanced cue that does not throw it's weight around. A cue can weight a good bit more than most think and still "feel" great, just like a cue can be on the lighter side and still "feel" great...........if they have a good balance.

A good cf shaft that is made to pair with a certain weight butt will play, like a high end wood shaft that is "made to pair with a particular butt"..........AMAZING!

 

[jtompilot]

My Jacoby Black definitely squirts more than my 12.4 Revo. When I get back home from the road I’ll weigh and measure my 12.3 Black vs Revo 12.4

 

[Bavafongoul]

Over the years and speaking with many cue-makers, I decided the following.
The only unknown variable is whether a particular cue has a large weight bolt.

Original maple shafts should be at the minimum 18-19% of the cue’s playing weight.
Cues with shafts lighter, regardless of the shaft diameter or taper, just feel different.

Personally, even that is too light for me and I use 20% as the minimum & even prefer
shafts weighing 22-23%. All of my ivory jointed cues (6) have shafts that are >20%
of the cue’s playing weight (18.5 -18.7 ozs). Bob and Jerry were very particular when
they selected shaft wood for my cues (4) and well, my TS and EP cue’s came that way.
Great cue-makers know the importance of weight matching the shafts and butt for feel.

I am not saying a pool cue that has a light weight original maple shaft would not be to the
preference of some players. The bottom line has always been play with what you like and
that especially applies to cues. I’ve found that those type cues just have a distinctly different
feel and balance that I really do not care for at all. Again, weight bolts are the biggest variable
so you need to know what is in the butt of your cue to start with. Two of my customs were made
sans any weight bolt so the target cue weight could be met. IMO, having closely matched specs
on the cues in any collection, regardless if it’s 2 or 20, makes playing with the cues more enjoyable.
Additionally, it enables you to switch cues easily and also compare & contrast different cue-makers.

Now obviously, a 13mm shaft would tend to be heavier than a 12.5mm shaft. And a shorter taper also
tends to be heavier than a long taper. Plus a piloted joint shaft has extra weight because of the brass.
Yes, there are variables that will come to mind but my cues are flat faced ivory so the shaft weight is
comprised of tip, ivory ferrules, collar rings and wood. The connection point between the two halves of
a cue is a topic for a different thread and gosh knows, there’s a potpourri of opinions about joint types.

Anyway, returning to the topic of shaft weight, carbon fiber and low defection shafts are a different breed
of animal but original maple shafts, now that is something I feel comfortable and qualified to opine about.
Just review the cues made by the best names in cue-making for the past 75 years. It coincides with this.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Also, I know for a fact that the lower the weight, the lower the deflection.

Correction: the less mass in the first 6 inches of the shaft lower the deflection.
The weight between 6" adn 29" is basically irrelevent wrt deflection, but useful in setting the balance point.

 

[The_JV]

As to whether you should return the shaft you have received... Without question yes. If you ordered a 12.3 shaft and did not receive that product, then return it. Not that it's acceptable if it were wood, but we're talking about a CF shaft that is wrapped and finished to a spec. I highly doubt that spec is +/- .3mm. If it were that would mean an acceptable deviation range of 12 to 12.6. That nuts...

As far as how the Black compares to the Revo... I have hit comparably sized shafts from both manufacturers and I prefer the Jacoby. I find the revos have more of a twangy (a scientific unit of measure of unpleasant vibration), hit. That said, I don't play with any CF shaft and will most likely never will. Just not my cup of tea. However the closest thing I found to a satisfactory hit with CF was the 11.8mm Jacoby Black. If you're in the market it's definitely worth a test hit.

 

[HueblerHustler7]

for my cue 3.4 or 3.5 oz would be way to light but that because I like a more forward balanced cue. Put it on and try it out see how your stroke feels or if it feels to front heavy or makes the cue over all weigh to much for you. You can specify to most dealers to find your a shaft in their stock that is close to the weight you like sometimes not, but may be worth asking.

 

[Quesports]

for my cue 3.4 or 3.5 oz would be way to light but that because I like a more forward balanced cue. Put it on and try it out see how your stroke feels or if it feels to front heavy or makes the cue over all weigh to much for you. You can specify to most dealers to find your a shaft in their stock that is close to the weight you like sometimes not, but may be worth asking.

I find this thread quite enlightening concerning shaft weight to overall percentage of cue weight.

I own a few cues and one special Mike Bender that a close friend gave me as a gift. The cue is quite a bit lighter than what I am used to.

As it is set up now the butt weighs 15.15 ozs. If I added a 4.0 ozs carbon shaft the cue gets closer to the weight I am used too. Which is nearer to 19.50 ozs. But that means the shaft weight becomes approximately 26% of the overall weight. That seems like it would change the balance point quite a lot.
Given the information described in earlier posts. Would 26% be way to forward balanced??? There are a full set of weight bolts so I can tinker with it but I welcome any thoughts anyone has..

 

[HueblerHustler7]

I find this thread quite enlightening concerning shaft weight to overall percentage of cue weight.

I own a few cues and one special Mike Bender that a close friend gave me as a gift. The cue is quite a bit lighter than what I am used to.

As it is set up now the butt weighs 15.15 ozs. If I added a 4.0 ozs carbon shaft the cue gets closer to the weight I am used too. Which is nearer to 19.50 ozs. But that means the shaft weight becomes approximately 26% of the overall weight. That seems like it would change the balance point quite a lot.
Given the information described in earlier posts. Would 26% be way to forward balanced??? There are a full set of weight bolts so I can tinker with it but I welcome any thoughts anyone has..

You may like the forward balance! balance point of the cue it typically measured with the shaft on and from the bumper up. Also the forward balance may just end up be comfortably countered by gripping slightly further back on the cue. Also check if you can add weight into the back of the cue, that way you can maybe get it to the exact weight and balance you feel most comfortable stroking with. You'd be suprised how .2 oz adjustment and balance change can transform your stroke. Takes time a patience but once you find what fits your stroke best it can be a powerful tool, almost like the cue is tailored to you sort of speak and becomes part of you.

 

[The_JV]

What is the pitfall to having a forward balanced cue...? I'm trying to think of one, but honestly can't.

I'm an open bridge type of player so I could see an extreme bottom heavy cue being awkward if I had to choke up on the grip. That said, I've never encountered a cue that gave me any sort of issue. In terms of balance anyway.

I'm wondering if balance is yet another needless thing pool players obsess about...?

 

[Mick]

I'm wondering if balance is yet another needless thing pool players obsess about...?

Give this dude a prize.

 

[The_JV]

Give this dude a prize.

oh oh..... what did I win...?

 

[MitchAlsup]

What is the pitfall to having a forward balanced cue...? I'm trying to think of one, but honestly can't.

Having a forward balanced cue alows the cue to naturally slide through your fingers letting gravity do all the work (of holding the shaft in your bridge). {Much like simply holding the cue a couple inches farther back does the same.}

 

[The_JV]

Agreed.... Still left wondering about a potential pitfall

 

[Fore Rail]

Jacoby makes their Black shaft in 11.8 - 12.3 & 12.7mm. Doesn't surprise me totally that OP received one that is 12.7mm. Now the weight being at 4.1 is plus in my book especially on a shaft without an insert. I have seen up close and personal a couple uni-loc Jacoby blacks that weighed in the neighborhood of 4.2 oz.

Having said I wouldn't get caught up in shaft weight, butt weight, balance points etc. It will draw you crazy eventually. I have a couple OB Phoenix shafts one weighs 3.2 oz the other 3.4 - kinda light eh? Butt is 16 oz with a .8 bolt installed. Balance point is 18 inches from the butt without the bumper installed. Now here's the kicker, with a 1 5/8 inch - 1.2oz cue max shaft extension the balance point only moved forward an inch.

Find something that you like, get used to it, play good pool & have fun!! Don't sweat the details.

Seyberts will take good care of you OP if you want to return that shaft & get another with specs more to your liking.

 

[ShootingArts]

A post saying that Jacoby makes a 12.7 shaft also makes a 12.6 very likely to be a nominal 12.7 shaft, somebody grabbed from the wrong bin or shelf. I would ship it back before it gets too much mileage on it. Seyberts will take it back inside a month regardless I believe but not using something you know you are going to return and cleaning it up as much as possible including chalk on the tip is just courtesy.

About balancing point, perhaps just my opinion but what matters is the balance point from the tip. We call out balance point from the butt not counting bumper, but what matters is from the tip. I recently went from a 30" shaft to a 29" shaft and haven't noticed a difference. I have not put the new shaft on the scales either, or the old one to refresh my memory. The cue doesn't have a noticeable change in balance point so I am good. Maybe I shifted my grip hand a bit on my wrapless cue, maybe not. When people try my cue all notice it is light, very few notice it is long. The balance point is 21" with my wooden shaft, exactly the same from the tip as the common 19" balance point on a 58" cue.

The only cues I find annoying are ones that are so butt heavy that the shaft wants to float up from an open bridge.

Hu

 

[smoochie]

Yes I agree with most of you who told me to ship it back cause it isn't what I ordered, I ordered a 12.3mm and I received larger diameter, anyway I talked to seyberts in mail and I'm entitled to a return policy of 60 days, but they said that they can't provide a return label and I must ship it by myself? I never did this before I just want to clarify and make sure that I am not doing the wrong thing here, am I entitled to a return label from them or are we just miscommunicating? maybe they think I just want to return the item only, but they don't know that I got issues with it being larger diameter than my order?