Shane Van Boening's World Record

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
For those who don't like 7 footers, while I get where you are coming from, I got to ask... why stop there? Why not say the only tables that count are 12 footers? While 7 footers give easier shots, at the same time stroke and power control needs to become far more precise and shot planning also changes, sometimes drastically.

I wonder if snooker players feel the same way about American tables that some players seem to feel about 7 footers.
While many snooker players do look down on pool, for me the difference is that pool games evolved with the size of the pool table in mind. Snooker is a pretty easy game when played on a pool table, but made difficult by the 12 foot snooker table and it’s pockets.

But on the 9 foot table, rotation games and straight pool evolved because potting on a pool table is easier. The ease of potting means players started playing games where position play is paramount while still requiring shotmaking accuracy. But on the bar box, it’s basically just the same games transposed to a smaller table. Like snooker played on a pool table.

I do understand the challenges inherent to bar pool even if I don’t enjoy them. And I would definitely be a big underdog to a bar box specialist.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In 2007 or 2008 what ever the last year the Sands Reno tourney was Johnny Archer won 44 games straight. His first 4 matches 11-0.

SVB double dipped JA on the same tourney in the finals to win the last Sands tourney.

best
Fatboy

edit: this was on a 9’ box fwiw
 

raise1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I respect the fact that everyone is entitled to their opinions. However, it amazes me of the disrespect a few people show to the top Pros of what they can do, whether it's on the Bar Box or 9 ft, or 12 ft tables.

If Dave Matlock won 28 straight games of 8-Ball against a "Single" opponent, which is hearsay and different than this game, nobody, and I mean "Nobody" should ever demean what he accomplished, and I don't care if he played on a 4 ft table. That is probably a World Record by itself (but let's see it. And let's see who his opponent was). It would have been an Amazing accomplishment. Just Show me the video, especially show me where there's so much money on the line, and against a top pro like Skyler sitting across you ( and if you don't think the opponent matters, then you have never been in real competition, and you're all talk, which is fine).

It is so obvious to me that there's people who "talk" a very good talk, which is cool, and then there's people who actually "bet", like "Iusedtoberiched", who I respect a whole lot more because he actually "bets" on what he believes in.

Now, if anybody who truly wants to test their faith: I will bet A LOT (I'm willing to bet a minimum of a house), that if your Fargo is less than 590 "Established," you can have all the Breaks, Ball In Hand after the breaks, and play the Ghost against 10-Ball, ON THE BAR BOX, in front of a big crowd AND on TV. I'm willing to do a short race to 25, which is a lot easier. Let's just settle this, if it's so easy. I will take MOST BETS.

It is the "pressures" of being on TV, of playing in front of a big crowd, playing against an great opponent like Sky/Shane/Dennis/Filler/Fedor, sitting across from you, etc.....

It's simple!!!!!!!!!! Anyone who has an established 590 (I will even do up to 610 Fargo or less): You can have all the Breaks, BIH after the breaks, playing 10-Ball against the Ghost, and playing on TV. Let's see what you've got. I will make it happen if you want to bet.

Either bet if you feel like it's easy (easy free money for you) or give respects to the Top Pros. Please don't "disrespect" the accomplishments of the top pros, whether it is on the Bar Box, 9 ft, 12 ft, erc...just because they're not what you want to hear or see. It is so simple to settle this.

Just Bet!!!!!!!

Let's see what YOU have inside and how you can handle the pressures.
 

raise1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In 2007 or 2008 what ever the last year the Sands Reno tourney was Johnny Archer won 44 games straight. His first 4 matches 11-0.

SVB double dipped JA on the same tourney in the finals to win the last Sands tourney.

best
Fatboy

edit: this was on a 9’ box fwiw
Eric, 44 game winning streak is absolutely amazing (and I don't care who accomplished it, and on what, where, etc.. ), so let's give Johnny credits for that.

However, it IS 100% different when you play heads up against probably The World's Best opponent like Skyler sitting across you, and with so much money on the line.

Money and pressures totally change everything.
 

raise1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And by the way, ask any top pros, 10-Ball Bar Box is a lot harder than 10-Ball on 9 ft tables. It's the "clusters" that they have to maneuver on the bar box.

The "Hardest" game of them all for the "Pros" that we are familiar with on the 9 ft tables is actually APA Rule 8-Ball (take what you make).

15-Balls Rotation is the best, but we don't play it here.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm pretty sure SVB had an 8 pack during the match and Sky a 7 pack.

The 26 games won in a row was impressive, but not a huge package. In fact two of the commentators had a bet on the high package with a line of 8 1/2. The under won the $100 bet.

EDIT: I just checked the stats page for the match. It does say 10 consecutive break and runs for SVB. But I swear that during the match they concluded that it was only 8.



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They did.... said he started his run at a score of 64-70. I think they later changed that to 62-70.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can't believe any serious pool player would pooh-pooh Shane's 26 game streak.

Isn't it funny how the thread started on Shane's 26 racks and then moved to praising Matlock's 28 racks?
Yeah....and where is the video....I want to watch it.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don't worry. I know you can't beat him. But pool on any table is still pool. I'd prefer they play on 10 ft tables. But most amateur pool players in USA play on bar tables, and not only is there nothing wrong with it, if you think it's child's play, then become the bar table champ yourself


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You dont seem to understand the point at all.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I know it was a different thread, but there was a lot of bitching going on about how the 7 ft Diamond table had cushions that were too reactive. I'm watching this match on YouTube right now, and it sure looks like it playing okay to me.
They aren’t consistent. I’m one of the loudest “bitchers” about excessive bounce and wrong angle of Diamond cushions. Yet, sometimes I play on Diamonds that seem really nice. And other times they are horrible. (All blue labels). Over the years, I’ve hypothesized that the weather conditions make a large difference in play to the Diamond tables, when compared to GC and other commercial tables.
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Calling a BB a "kiddie table" was the point I was addressing with that post.


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I love to play on the barbox. I agree that him calling it the 'kiddie table' isn't good. I missed that post before my previous post to you. I understand why you were upset more now. But still, SJM is one of the good guys.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
The conversation should really stay away from the use of "barbox". Quite frankly a true to form BB is wildly different than a diamond 7ft.

Actual barbox pool is 'kiddy' in nature. Even I can string decent B&R packages together.

Oh, and not a "world record". Requires to be done in world competiton for that distinction. He may have claim to an entry in the Guiness Book of World Records though.
 

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
The conversation should really stay away from the use of "barbox". Quite frankly a true to form BB is wildly different than a diamond 7ft.

Actual barbox pool is 'kiddy' in nature. Even I can string decent B&R packages together.

Oh, and not a "world record". Requires to be done in world competiton for that distinction. He may have claim to an entry in the Guiness Book of World Records though.

It takes someone getting near a 600 Fargo Rating to be able to string a decent number of racks in a row even on a Valley table. I play on both Valley and Diamonds regularly and the average league player struggles to run out on any table. I've ran a 5 pack on a Valley. But that's only 1 time. SVB is on video running an 8 pack against Earl on a Valley table I believe. But to me it was very enjoyable to watch, because I knew that I definitely couldn't do that.


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buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They aren’t consistent. I’m one of the loudest “bitchers” about excessive bounce and wrong angle of Diamond cushions. Yet, sometimes I play on Diamonds that seem really nice. And other times they are horrible. (All blue labels). Over the years, I’ve hypothesized that the weather conditions make a large difference in play to the Diamond tables, when compared to GC and other commercial tables.
"When compared to other commercial tables"? What other commercial tables are there in wide circulation? Valley? And to be fair, you have to use 7 footers as your example because that's what is being discussed.

Yet.... it looked PLENTY consistent on the video posted. I'm guessing what is not consistent is your play on a Diamond table. It sounds like you have yourself convinced it's the tables fault when you play poorly on them.

Show me in the video where the table looked inconsistent or "too bouncy" in any way. I'll even give you the entire land of YouTube to show me. What you may be experiencing when you find diamond table not to play well, is what RKC mentioned.... you may be experiencing the mechanic that set it up in the first place.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Eric, 44 game winning streak is absolutely amazing (and I don't care who accomplished it, and on what, where, etc.. ), so let's give Johnny credits for that.

However, it IS 100% different when you play heads up against probably The World's Best opponent like Skyler sitting across you, and with so much money on the line.

Money and pressures totally change everything.
I understand completely, as much as anyone. Great accomplishment by SVB.

I been around pool 36 years, not my first rodeo.

Best regards
Fatboy
 
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arnaldo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
. . . I've long said that David Matlock was the best I ever saw on a bar table and I will repeat that now. NO ONE ELSE has done anything like that during the fifty plus years I've followed this game and its top players.
Jay, over those many years you've likely analysed or arrived at specific conclusions about Dave's bar table strategies and execution -- beyond his natural talents -- that set him so far apart from competitors. I think emerging players (and even seasoned ones) could benefit from hearing about what you've concluded, if you'd care to share some of the insights.

Arnaldo
 

JusticeNJ

Four Points/Steel Joints
Silver Member
Not a record. Dave Matlock not only won 28 straight racks, but he ran a 28-pack in doing so in bar table eight ball. That said, I don't think any feat performed on a bar table belongs in the record books.
If that was any another sport, we’d still be accusing him of doping to this day.
 
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iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
"When compared to other commercial tables"? What other commercial tables are there in wide circulation? Valley? And to be fair, you have to use 7 footers as your example because that's what is being discussed.

Yet.... it looked PLENTY consistent on the video posted. I'm guessing what is not consistent is your play on a Diamond table. It sounds like you have yourself convinced it's the tables fault when you play poorly on them.

Show me in the video where the table looked inconsistent or "too bouncy" in any way. I'll even give you the entire land of YouTube to show me. What you may be experiencing when you find diamond table not to play well, is what RKC mentioned.... you may be experiencing the mechanic that set it up in the first place.
We can agree to disagree. There are plenty of high level players that feel the same as I do. Some even post here about it. My experience is not due to mechanic setups. I've experienced at the DCC myself, at Tunica, and at tables fresh from the Diamond factory delivered to NJ, PA, and other places I'm forgetting now. Its both on the 9' and the 7' tables. Lots of other threads about it, no need to hash on about it further in this thread.

Edit to add, I can't remember the match, but it was in the past few weeks, maybe even this match, where the commentators were stating how bouncy the rails were. And it was quite obvious watching the match. I actually wanted to make a note of it to talk about it on the forum, but figured it would be a waste of time, and not worth the effort. And now that you ask about "video proof", I can't for the life of me remember which match it was! ha ha, that's life. I can't recall if it was a live match or a youtube match.
 
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kling&allen

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
I've liked Dr. Dave's TDF metric for comparing play on various table sizes. A standard 9 footer is 1.0. A 7 ft. Diamond with pro-cut pockets, like that used in the SVB v. Sky match, is 0.85. A Valley bar box is 0.77. So SVB's 26-game win streak is the "equivalent" of a 22-game streak on a standard 9'ft table. Likewise Matlock's 28-game run is the "equivalent" of a 21-game run under the TDF approach.

I think that Matlock's run came during the mudball era, with a heavy cue-ball that (for most at least) is harder to control. Likewise I think (without evidence) that 860/860HR and bouncy rails make it easier to runout regardless of table size. The old greats (Crane, etc.) often complained about how easy the game became once plastic balls, fast cloth, and 9 foot tables were introduced. Has Earl or the like ever commented on the relative difficulty of 9-ball on today's equipment versus that from the 1980s?

 
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