Shane vs Dechaine

[KMRUNOUT]

Rack your own is bullshit. I hate it. You opponent should have to rack for you and you for him. I hate breaking my own rack. Unless I am playing one pocket. That game is better to be played as RYO.

*What* do you hate about it? *Why* should your opponent have to rack for you, etc.? Do you not rack well? Why is there any difference for one pocket?

Your opinion is great to have, but worth far more with some rationale for why you have that opinion.

Thanks if you are able to clarify.

KMRUNOUT

 

[realkingcobra]

So why belong to a forum at all? Why post? Why read it?

KMRUNOUT

Because that's what spectators do, talk all about what THEY would have done, and how THEY would have done it THIS way or THAT way, and everyone playing should RACK this way or THAT way, WHAT...no JUMP cues allowed!!!...that's just WRONG, and anything else THEY think should be allowed....only...THEY are not the ones playing, not the ones there, not the ones winning or losing. They're on the sidelines for a reason, and that reason is to be able to call players douche bags, a$$holes and anything else they want to throw in, along with CTE aiming systems....and do the Pro's use them, and if they don't...well, they can't play anyway.

This is the first tread I've ever read that was all about how Shane is now a questionable player, maybe even a cheat, and now his character is in question...by WHO, a bunch of ARM CHAIR QUARTER BACKS? It makes me wonder why so many people on here only see Shane as the best "American" pool player...instead of the player that he is, world class in every aspect of the word, but instead feel the need to limit him to being this or that...and now he's a CHEAT in some peoples eyes?...BS!!!! I'll tell you this, it would be hard for ANYONE to live up to the expectations of the peanut gallery, that's for damn sure...because they're the greatest players of all time....just ask them, as they seem to KNOW about every aspect of this sport...only, don't ask them to get up off their a$$ and have to prove it, because that's when they fall flat on their faces, then sit back and complain about how "POOL" is dying in this country!!!

Glen

 

[fcee06]

Jmo

Just get a neutral racker and this kills this conversation. Well on second thought maybe not. then that person would be accused of favoring one player over another. Its a never ending cycle I think. I have seen rack artist(or so they thought) get hijacked. I have seen guys rack the balls loose and get 4 balls broke in on them. The fact of the matter is when you play at the levels of Shane and Mike its just who is at the table has the advantage. If he is racking them bad and making the wing ball, remember that rack and when you get the break, rack em the same way and shoot his liver out is what I say! Just my humble opinion.

FC

 

[fcee06]

Well!

Because that's what spectators do, talk all about what THEY would have done, and how THEY would have done it THIS way or THAT way, and everyone playing should RACK this way or THAT way, WHAT...no JUMP cues allowed!!!...that's just WRONG, and anything else THEY think should be allowed....only...THEY are not the ones playing, not the ones there, not the ones winning or losing. They're on the sidelines for a reason, and that reason is to be able to call players douche bags, a$$holes and anything else they want to throw in, along with CTE aiming systems....and do the Pro's use them, and if they don't...well, they can't play anyway.

This is the first tread I've ever read that was all about how Shane is now a questionable player, maybe even a cheat, and now his character is in question...by WHO, a bunch of ARM CHAIR QUARTER BACKS? It makes me wonder why so many people on here only see Shane as the best "American" pool player...instead of the player that he is, world class in every aspect of the word, but instead feel the need to limit him to being this or that...and now he's a CHEAT in some peoples eyes?...BS!!!! I'll tell you this, it would be hard for ANYONE to live up to the expectations of the peanut gallery, that's for damn sure...because they're the greatest players of all time....just ask them, as they seem to KNOW about every aspect of this sport...only, don't ask them to get up off their a$$ and have to prove it, because that's when they fall flat on their faces, then sit back and complain about how "POOL" is dying in this country!!!

Glen

Thats a wrap!

 

[justadub]

Because that's what spectators do, talk all about what THEY would have done, and how THEY would have done it THIS way or THAT way, and everyone playing should RACK this way or THAT way, WHAT...no JUMP cues allowed!!!...that's just WRONG, and anything else THEY think should be allowed....only...THEY are not the ones playing, not the ones there, not the ones winning or losing. They're on the sidelines for a reason, and that reason is to be able to call players douche bags, a$$holes and anything else they want to throw in, along with CTE aiming systems....and do the Pro's use them, and if they don't...well, they can't play anyway.

This is the first tread I've ever read that was all about how Shane is now a questionable player, maybe even a cheat, and now his character is in question...by WHO, a bunch of ARM CHAIR QUARTER BACKS? It makes me wonder why so many people on here only see Shane as the best "American" pool player...instead of the player that he is, world class in every aspect of the word, but instead feel the need to limit him to being this or that...and now he's a CHEAT in some peoples eyes?...BS!!!! I'll tell you this, it would be hard for ANYONE to live up to the expectations of the peanut gallery, that's for damn sure...because they're the greatest players of all time....just ask them, as they seem to KNOW about every aspect of this sport...only, don't ask them to get up off their a$$ and have to prove it, because that's when they fall flat on their faces, then sit back and complain about how "POOL" is dying in this country!!!

Glen

I believe there can be a world of difference between being "a cheater" and being someone who takes advantage of what the situation at hand gives them. Meaning if anyone (shane included) is allowed to rack in a certain way that perhaps plays to their own particular strengths, then they will very likely do so.

Does that make shane a cheater, I don't believe so. And I don't believe most folks here are considering him a cheater, Glen. You seem to read into that, I don't. I think most people think very highly of shane. That doesn't mean he isn't capable of racking in a way that benefits him, if he is allowed to do so.

 

[realkingcobra]

I believe there can be a world of difference between being "a cheater" and being someone who takes advantage of what the situation at hand gives them. Meaning if anyone (shane included) is allowed to rack in a certain way that perhaps plays to their own particular strengths, then they will very likely do so.

Does that make shane a cheater, I don't believe so. And I don't believe most folks here are considering him a cheater, Glen. You seem to read into that, I don't. I think most people think very highly of shane. That doesn't mean he isn't capable of racking in a way that benefits him, if he is allowed to do so.

Nothing stops the guy he's playing either, does it? I mean, if Shane's doing something that makes it so he's making balls on the break, then the person he's playing should learn from that...and COPY what he's doing...IF he's doing anything at all...but still the bottom line is, SHUT UP and SHOOT, let your stick to the talking for you!

Glen

 

[justadub]

Nothing stops the guy he's playing either, does it? I mean, if Shane's doing something that makes it so he's making balls on the break, then the person he's playing should learn from that...and COPY what he's doing...IF he's doing anything at all...but still the bottom line is, SHUT UP and SHOOT, let your stick to the talking for you!

Glen

So there shouldn't be any rules at all then? Just do what the other guy does?

 

[realkingcobra]

So there shouldn't be any rules at all then? Just do what the other guy does?

No, actually...ALL the people NOT playing, shouldn't be trying to make up the rules for ALL THOSE that ARE playing....that's what I'm saying. It's because of the PEOPLE that couldn't beat there way out of a wet paper bag...even if it had a hole in it, that DECIDED it was best to have an alternating break, they decided it was best to allow jump cues, they decided it was best to use the magic rack...so THEY would have a chance to beat some PRO...in a SHORT race. THEY are the ONES killing this sport at the PRO levels...because THEY want to be able to play with the Pros as long as they PAY their entry fees, but they ALSO feel they should have a CHANCE to win too.

IF it were up to me, I'd create skill levels, and believe me, if you couldn't pass the test to play with the Pro's....you WOULDN'T be playing the Pros, and they would be playing each other...in much longer races...with NO BUY BACKS, as in SINGLE ELIMINATION format only, then...only the best would come out on top...and would have EARNED the right to be called...the WINNER!!!

Glen

 

[Banks]

No, actually...ALL the people NOT playing, shouldn't be trying to make up the rules for ALL THOSE that ARE playing....that's what I'm saying. It's because of the PEOPLE that couldn't beat there way out of a wet paper bag...even if it had a hole in it, that DECIDED it was best to have an alternating break, they decided it was best to allow jump cues, they decided it was best to use the magic rack...so THEY would have a chance to beat some PRO...in a SHORT race. THEY are the ONES killing this sport at the PRO levels...because THEY want to be able to play with the Pros as long as they PAY their entry fees, but they ALSO feel they should have a CHANCE to win too.

IF it were up to me, I'd create skill levels, and believe me, if you couldn't pass the test to play with the Pro's....you WOULDN'T be playing the Pros, and they would be playing each other...in much longer races...with NO BUY BACKS, as in SINGLE ELIMINATION format only, then...only the best would come out on top...and would have EARNED the right to be called...the WINNER!!!

Glen

So, the Pros have never had any input on what they'd like in the game? I find that hard to believe. I seriously doubt a bunch of APA players are deciding the rules and equipment for the DCC. Speaking of.. bringing in skill levels.. do you think that nobody would take advantage of that? Single elim would NOT(sorry, you started it) mean that "the best" comes out on top. Unless we're talking a day-long race, and even then somebody could be having a bad day.

Let me backtrack a minute.. so you're complaining that pool chumps are creating and pushing the Diamond Tables, Magic Rack and so on, despite the opposition of the players, but everything's all well and good when you say that you'd implement a different qualification system?

The thing that kills it at the Pro level is that nobody wants to freakin watch pool(at least not the way it's done now). That's why you have to get additional participants into the tournaments. Either that, or find some damn players that actually have money.. good luck with that! Speaking of.. back to work for me, you go ahead and tell us all how we're ruining the game for a couple dozen people. :thumbup:

No buybacks, gotta win your way there and single elimination.. hell, sounds like you want them playing in a big APA tournament. :nanner:

Ps - Why couldn't more people play with them... afraid one of those "non-pro" types would end up being "the best"? Boy would that be an ego-crusher.. and alternating breaks is something the Pros oppose? I'm sure they always enjoy having a pack dropped on em without the chance of firing back.

 

[justadub]

No, actually...ALL the people NOT playing, shouldn't be trying to make up the rules for ALL THOSE that ARE playing....that's what I'm saying. It's because of the PEOPLE that couldn't beat there way out of a wet paper bag...even if it had a hole in it, that DECIDED it was best to have an alternating break, they decided it was best to allow jump cues, they decided it was best to use the magic rack...so THEY would have a chance to beat some PRO...in a SHORT race. THEY are the ONES killing this sport at the PRO levels...because THEY want to be able to play with the Pros as long as they PAY their entry fees, but they ALSO feel they should have a CHANCE to win too.

IF it were up to me, I'd create skill levels, and believe me, if you couldn't pass the test to play with the Pro's....you WOULDN'T be playing the Pros, and they would be playing each other...in much longer races...with NO BUY BACKS, as in SINGLE ELIMINATION format only, then...only the best would come out on top...and would have EARNED the right to be called...the WINNER!!!

Glen

Wasn't Mike "playing" in that match? Isn't he "a pro"? I think he can shoot his way around quite nicely, don't you? He was the one questioning the rack, not we, the unwashed and apparently unwelcome peasants in the fields....

If the rack is supposed to be a certain way, as determined by the people running the tournament (who, I suppose, aren't all "pro's" like you insist on, yet they are willing to do the work and put up the money so I believe they might be allowed a say in things) why can't a player question it? I mean, why can't "a pro" player question it?

That's what this was all about, despite your recent derail. (I realize you're pretty good at "derailing" and re-railing", heh heh.)

 

[Neil]

............

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Because that's what spectators do, talk all about what THEY would have done, and how THEY would have done it THIS way or THAT way, and everyone playing should RACK this way or THAT way, WHAT...no JUMP cues allowed!!!...that's just WRONG, and anything else THEY think should be allowed....only...THEY are not the ones playing, not the ones there, not the ones winning or losing. They're on the sidelines for a reason, and that reason is to be able to call players douche bags, a$$holes and anything else they want to throw in, along with CTE aiming systems....and do the Pro's use them, and if they don't...well, they can't play anyway.

This is the first tread I've ever read that was all about how Shane is now a questionable player, maybe even a cheat, and now his character is in question...by WHO, a bunch of ARM CHAIR QUARTER BACKS? It makes me wonder why so many people on here only see Shane as the best "American" pool player...instead of the player that he is, world class in every aspect of the word, but instead feel the need to limit him to being this or that...and now he's a CHEAT in some peoples eyes?...BS!!!! I'll tell you this, it would be hard for ANYONE to live up to the expectations of the peanut gallery, that's for damn sure...because they're the greatest players of all time....just ask them, as they seem to KNOW about every aspect of this sport...only, don't ask them to get up off their a$$ and have to prove it, because that's when they fall flat on their faces, then sit back and complain about how "POOL" is dying in this country!!!

Glen

I'm confused. You say all this, but you were one of the ones directly criticizing *Mike Dechaine's* post. I didn't think you played in this tournament...but Mike did. How are you not doing precisely what you just got through criticizing above? I have little doubt you are an outstanding table mechanic. But since you don't (as far as I know) play pro level pool and didn't compete in the bigger money rounds of the DCC 9 ball, you are hardly in a position to condemn the people posting their criticisms if you started out in this thread by *being one of them*.

Perhaps I misunderstood one or more of your posts...

KMRUNOUT

 

[Joe T]

No, actually...ALL the people NOT playing, shouldn't be trying to make up the rules for ALL THOSE that ARE playing....that's what I'm saying. It's because of the PEOPLE that couldn't beat there way out of a wet paper bag...even if it had a hole in it, that DECIDED it was best to have an alternating break, they decided it was best to allow jump cues, they decided it was best to use the magic rack...so THEY would have a chance to beat some PRO...in a SHORT race. THEY are the ONES killing this sport at the PRO levels...because THEY want to be able to play with the Pros as long as they PAY their entry fees, but they ALSO feel they should have a CHANCE to win too.

IF it were up to me, I'd create skill levels, and believe me, if you couldn't pass the test to play with the Pro's....you WOULDN'T be playing the Pros, and they would be playing each other...in much longer races...with NO BUY BACKS, as in SINGLE ELIMINATION format only, then...only the best would come out on top...and would have EARNED the right to be called...the WINNER!!!

Glen

I totally see where you're coming from with most of this. I agree there should be some kind of test to acheive pro status, can't stand the idea of my mother sending in her entry into the same tournament as me
Short races, jump cues out the window. Single? Double ah toss up but longer races perhaps with 2 out of 3 short sets to keep some intensity?
Don't agree with what you say about magic racks or alternate breaks though. Magic rack makes things a lot fairer with less argueing fo sho. And I do think alternate breaks is the way to go for both fairness and I may be in the minority here (usually am) but I think alternate break gives the better player a better shot at winning. I know if I'm playing someone better than me that I know my best chance of winning is to keep them in their chair and because I'm good enough to do that I think I have a better chance with winner breaks. I think we see more upsets with winner breaks than we do with alternate breaks. The 2 arguements I usually hear about alternate breaks are too tough to come back and people wanna see packages. My thoughts are you come back the exact same way you fell behind just like most other sport do, winner breaks allows for errors to be made up for easier. People wanna see packages, me too, I wanna see 2 players trading runouts to the end, that would be gr8 and more interesting than runaways, imo.

 

[hunger strike]

Will an opponent ever question a rack? Ever? Yes.

Give the guy a break... He called the guy out for not racking properly. If you have ever gambled or played in a decent tournament this is something that comes up all the time. The guy is pretty young if i'm not mistaken and we all know learning how to handle these situations with tempered emotions comes with age for most.

Calling the guy a "douche" and a "*****ass" is way out of line imo. You should all be ashamed of yourselves :angry:

Knowing that on a long enough time line every single player will be questioned about the rack, we have to accept that it will happen. Sharking or not, it will happen as sure as breathing. The things said about Shane's opponent here are waaaay out of line, and if MD wants to defend himself on here, it is no surprise that he does so. Calling him little guy, and all the other ugly stuff. Would you say this stuff to his face? I doubt it. Shane and MD can beat almost everyone on here, so let's be cool what we say about both.