Shippers Responsibility.

[skins]

i wanted to bring this back from another similar thread and from recent experience i had and get thoughts.....i think it is ALWAYS the responsibility of the shipper to get the items in the hands of the shippee'. delivery confirmation for anything on ebay or paid with paypal, or shipped from anywhere for that matter, is not good enough. case in point... i bought something on ebay and the sender sent it delivery confirmation only with no insurance. the package arrived damaged and the contents were gone. spoke to ebay and paypal and they both told me to file as "not as described" claim since the package i received was technically not as described. the charges were reversed and i got my money back. incidentally it is also the shippers responsibility to ad insurance to their shipment to protect themselves, it's never left to the shippee's option to pay for insurance since the only one that can make a claim on damaged or lost packages is the shipper. it's a good thing so stay on your toes when dealing with "insurance optional" sellers.

 

[FLYINGSNAIL]

Always Insured And Signature Comformation...

i wanted to bring this back from another similar thread and from recent experience i had and get thoughts.....i think it is ALWAYS the responsibility of the shipper to get the items in the hands of the shippee'. delivery confirmation for anything on ebay or paid with paypal, or shipped from anywhere for that matter, is not good enough. case in point... i bought something on ebay and the sender sent it delivery confirmation only with no insurance. the package arrived damaged and the contents were gone. spoke to ebay and paypal and they both told me to file as "not as described" claim since the package i received was technically not as described. the charges were reversed and i got my money back. incidentally it is also the shippers responsibility to ad insurance to their shipment to protect themselves, it's never left to the shippee's option to pay for insurance since the only one that can make a claim on damaged or lost packages is the shipper. it's a good thing so stay on your toes when dealing with "insurance optional" sellers.

Rule of thumb always insurance on item that i send for full value, signature comformation, and pack well so item won't get damage.

 

[Dartman]

As a shipper there's not much to think about. All shipments go insured otherwise there is 0 protection. USPS delivery and signature confirmation only mean a package was delivered or signed for - not neccessarily by the intended recipient and there's no coverage for loss or damages. I think you did right by filing for a refund (your example). If the seller was stupid enough not to include or at least offer insurance then seller has no recourse.

 

[Irish634]

i think it is ALWAYS the responsibility of the shipper to get the items in the hands of the shippee'. delivery confirmation for anything on ebay or paid with paypal, or shipped from anywhere for that matter, is not good enough.

Let me play devil's advocate on this one...

For sake of argument: The carrier is USPS. The package is small enough to fit in the mailbox. The shipper ships the item with delivery confirmation & has all documentation and provides it. The package IS delivered to the recipient's address and is proven because the delivery driver (postman) was being audited and there were two people present to verify the package was placed in the mailbox and the mailbox closed. Now... the neighbor comes over and steals the package before the recipient gets home to retrieve it.

How does the blame fall to the shipper? (Only looking for opinions...)

Rule of thumb always insurance on item that i send for full value, signature comformation, and pack well so item won't get damage.

My situation may or may not be unique... I leave the house at 6:30 am and get home from work around 6-6:30pm. No one is home all day and by the time I am able to get to the shipping outlet for pickup, they are usually closed. Signature confirmation is nice, but for me it is a huge pain in the a$$. (I can't have personal items shipped to work either).

I do agree about the insurance though. When I ship stuff, I always ship with delivery confirmation and insurance. Insurance is mandatory and is not negotiable. I believe this to be sufficient. But, I will also make every effort to have a satisfied customer should situations arise.

Just my two shiny pennies.
Craig

 

[FLYINGSNAIL]

My situation may or may not be unique... I leave the house at 6:30 am and get home from work around 6-6:30pm. No one is home all day and by the time I am able to get to the shipping outlet for pickup, they are usually closed. Signature confirmation is nice, but for me it is a huge pain in the a$$. (I can't have personal items shipped to work either).

I do agree about the insurance though. When I ship stuff, I always ship with delivery confirmation and insurance. Insurance is mandatory and is not negotiable. I believe this to be sufficient. But, I will also make every effort to have a satisfied customer should situations arise.

Just my two shiny pennies.
Craig[/QUOTE]
Maybe for your 2 shiny pennies, you might have to figure out away to pick up your package, if no one sing for item, will go back to usps offer for you to pick up with your I.D. and I ALWAYS INSURED all my items.

 

[LCCS]

shipping

I had this problem one time when i thought my neighbor stold my package and i installed two cameras. One at the front door and the other at the mailbox. I still use them today. They only cost me about 40.00 each and they were well worth it. I already had the vcr. Lets just say i do not get along with my neighbor anymore, lol lol
Thanx, Ron www.lccsbilliards.com

 

[Irish634]

Maybe for your 2 shiny pennies, you might have to figure out away to pick up your package, if no one sing for item, will go back to usps offer for you to pick up with your I.D. and I ALWAYS INSURED all my items.

That would be fine except I work an hour away from home and by the time I get to the post office or any other shipping outlet (UPS, FEDEX), they are usually closed for the day.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I am just saying it's a huge pain in the a$$ for me to have to take time off from work to go pick up a package 45-60 miles away (depending on what carrier).

I personally prefer the USPS because I live in a small town and I know my postman personally, and he always signs for me and puts items like that in my garage or he'll drop it off later in the evening on his way home. UPS or FedEx won't do that and for good reason.

My other 2 shiny pennies
Craig

 

[skins]

Let me play devil's advocate on this one...

For sake of argument: The carrier is USPS. The package is small enough to fit in the mailbox. The shipper ships the item with delivery confirmation & has all documentation and provides it. The package IS delivered to the recipient's address and is proven because the delivery driver (postman) was being audited and there were two people present to verify the package was placed in the mailbox and the mailbox closed. Now... the neighbor comes over and steals the package before the recipient gets home to retrieve it.

How does the blame fall to the shipper? (Only looking for opinions...)

i believe it always falls on the shipper unless the shipper says he'll hand deliver the item himself. the shipper has all responsibility to take all precautions to make sure the package is delivered as intended and must take insurance to back himself even if it's offered and somehow not accepted by the recipient. since the recipient cannot make a claim on a lost or damaged package it makes it obvious that the USPS, UPS, FedEx, DHL all agree that the resposibility fall on the shipper for the package getting to it's destination as intended. if that doesn't happen, they're the only one that can make a claim and start all over again.

 

[TATE]

i wanted to bring this back from another similar thread and from recent experience i had and get thoughts.....i think it is ALWAYS the responsibility of the shipper to get the items in the hands of the shippee'. delivery confirmation for anything on ebay or paid with paypal, or shipped from anywhere for that matter, is not good enough. case in point... i bought something on ebay and the sender sent it delivery confirmation only with no insurance. the package arrived damaged and the contents were gone. spoke to ebay and paypal and they both told me to file as "not as described" claim since the package i received was technically not as described. the charges were reversed and i got my money back. incidentally it is also the shippers responsibility to ad insurance to their shipment to protect themselves, it's never left to the shippee's option to pay for insurance since the only one that can make a claim on damaged or lost packages is the shipper. it's a good thing so stay on your toes when dealing with "insurance optional" sellers.

Yep. The notion of offering insurance to the buyer as optional is backwards. I buy insurance as a shipper to cover myself. If the shipping company screws up, I am the one getting paid, and if I am not insured, it is me getting screwed.

Chris

 

[cueaddicts]

Skins,

I totally agree about it being the seller's responsibility, but I think one of the issues with one of the earlier threads deal with the conundrum of some overseas transactions. What if, for the purpose of alleviating duties on their end, a buyer INSISTS upon a low declared value and thus not able to fully insure. How do folks feel about that scenario ?? Would it then be the seller's responsibility to issue a full refund or purchase price ?? Should a seller refuse the buyer's request and lose the deal ??

(Let's not get into the fact that some insurance purchased won't cover an item once it leaves the US....OR....some carriers insurance (e.g. FedEx) will not reimburse for actual value of a collectible or one-of-a-kind item. Those are separate issues altogether.)

And, in case people haven't noticed, eBay is chock full of auctions for items where the shipping insurance is OPTIONAL.

Sean

These are interesting points, and I look forward to people's responses.

 

[skins]

Skins,

I totally agree about it being the seller's responsibility, but I think one of the issues with one of the earlier threads deal with the conundrum of some overseas transactions. What if, for the purpose of alleviating duties on their end, a buyer INSISTS upon a low declared value and thus not able to fully insure. How do folks feel about that scenario ?? Would it then be the seller's responsibility to issue a full refund or purchase price ?? Should a seller refuse the buyer's request and lose the deal ??

(Let's not get into the fact that some insurance purchased won't cover an item once it leaves the US....OR....some carriers insurance (e.g. FedEx) will not reimburse for actual value of a collectible or one-of-a-kind item. Those are separate issues altogether.)

And, in case people haven't noticed, eBay is chock full of auctions for items where the shipping insurance is OPTIONAL.

Sean

These are interesting points, and I look forward to people's responses.

YES!! refuse the deal or make another arrangement. don't become an accomplice to their dishonesty. they're not the only fish in the "cue" sea.
as far as Ebay sellers making insurance optional, it could be because they're getting beat up for lower shipping costs from buyers. they may truly think that when the package is out of their hands they have nothing to do with it anymore so by making it optional the seller thinks the shipping costs may "look" more reasonable to buyers. just a guess.
skins - insures all packages for his protection

 

[manwon]

i wanted to bring this back from another similar thread and from recent experience i had and get thoughts.....i think it is ALWAYS the responsibility of the shipper to get the items in the hands of the shippee'. delivery confirmation for anything on ebay or paid with paypal, or shipped from anywhere for that matter, is not good enough. case in point... i bought something on ebay and the sender sent it delivery confirmation only with no insurance. the package arrived damaged and the contents were gone. spoke to ebay and paypal and they both told me to file as "not as described" claim since the package i received was technically not as described. the charges were reversed and i got my money back. incidentally it is also the shippers responsibility to ad insurance to their shipment to protect themselves, it's never left to the shippee's option to pay for insurance since the only one that can make a claim on damaged or lost packages is the shipper. it's a good thing so stay on your toes when dealing with "insurance optional" sellers.

I have in the past sold many items on eBay. I always give the purchaser the option of paying for insurance. Except on high dollar items, where I make the Insurance mandatory.

However, any seller that is not insuring high dollar item's is just looking for trouble and they will find it. But belief it or not, many eBay buyers are the first ones to complain about shipping charges. Packaging, freight, and by the way also insurance, are expenses that the buyer will pay for one way or another.

 

[Dartman]

Let me play devil's advocate on this one...
For sake of argument: The carrier is USPS. The package is small enough to fit in the mailbox. The shipper ships the item with delivery confirmation & has all documentation and provides it. The package IS delivered to the recipient's address and is proven because the delivery driver (postman) was being audited and there were two people present to verify the package was placed in the mailbox and the mailbox closed. Now... the neighbor comes over and steals the package before the recipient gets home to retrieve it. How does the blame fall to the shipper? (Only looking for opinions...)

I don't think it's a matter of "blame" as the shipper can prove the item was shipped and delivered (DC). The problem is that the recipient did not physically receive the item and if there was No insurance the USPS won't accept a loss claim. In this case the shipper is out the item as well as having to refund the amount paid by the buyer. IMO if there's any "blame" it's for not insuring the shipment.

To put a twist on your example let's suppose there Was insurance as well as DC. I'd be curious as to how the USPS would handle the claim considering that delivery was confirmed as you stated. Probably a question better directed to someone at the Post Office but my quess would be they would accept the claim and pay based on insured value.

I think that ultimately the seller is liable to the buyer for delivery of goods "as described" whether the carrier (USPS, UPS, DHL, etc) loses it, breaks it or someone steals it. All the more reason to CYA with insurance.

 

[cueaddicts]

I don't think it's a matter of "blame" as the shipper can prove the item was shipped and delivered (DC). The problem is that the recipient did not physically receive the item and if there was No insurance the USPS won't accept a loss claim. In this case the shipper is out the item as well as having to refund the amount paid by the buyer. IMO if there's any "blame" it's for not insuring the shipment.

To put a twist on your example let's suppose there Was insurance as well as DC. I'd be curious as to how the USPS would handle the claim considering that delivery was confirmed as you stated. Probably a question better directed to someone at the Post Office but my quess would be they would accept the claim and pay based on insured value.

If buyer says something didn't arrive but deliver confirmation says it did, then there would be no claim allowed. USPS delivered the shipment. About the only think you might get from them is if the driver remembers anything....left at door, gave to neighbor, whatever. That's why it's best to spend the extra buck or so and go signature delivery, that way there's no question.

 

[Dartman]

I'll have to get the lowdown next time at the PO as it would be good to know the official position of the USPS with these scenarios.

We rarely ship anything USPS but when we do it's only postage plus insurance. We do not use delivery or signature confirmation. If the customer doesn't receive delivery in a reasonable time we are entitled to an insurance claim without having to deal with any confirmation issues. We reship the order knowing that we will be paid by the insurance.

 

[Dartman]

many eBay buyers are the first ones to complain about shipping charges. Packaging, freight, and by the way also insurance, are expenses that the buyer will pay for one way or another.

I agree that the buyer typically pays the shipping expense but frown on some of the shipping charges I see on eBay. Understandably there is packaging, time, gas, etc to get a package shipped but some of those clowns selling small stuff for "cheap" seem to make it up with astronomical shipping charges. Flat rate priority mail is only $8 and change regardless of the box weight. Tack on insurance of $3-$5, 2 bucks for gas/time and shipping shouldn't be over $15 - yet some charge a lot more.

 

[cornerstone]

My situation may or may not be unique... I leave the house at 6:30 am and get home from work around 6-6:30pm. No one is home all day and by the time I am able to get to the shipping outlet for pickup, they are usually closed. Signature confirmation is nice, but for me it is a huge pain in the a$$. (I can't have personal items shipped to work either).

I do agree about the insurance though. When I ship stuff, I always ship with delivery confirmation and insurance. Insurance is mandatory and is not negotiable. I believe this to be sufficient. But, I will also make every effort to have a satisfied customer should situations arise.

Just my two shiny pennies.
Craig

Maybe for your 2 shiny pennies, you might have to figure out away to pick up your package, if no one sing for item, will go back to usps offer for you to pick up with your I.D. and I ALWAYS INSURED all my items.[/QUOTE] If you go fed ex or usps you will see that they dont sell insurance , it is (declaired value) i have been doing the run around with both of these companys. the guy behind the counter may call it insurance,but it is not!they have the choice to cover or not. also it is always (my) responsiblity when i ship ,(unless special request shipping)Unless the reciver requesT that i ship a differant way or out of country requires that i declair it a special way! thgat is trying to avoid the charges by the gov . then it is on there head once it leaves