Shipping Insurance, Seller or Buyer Responsibility?

plshrk22

plshrk22

A Holes Billiards
Silver Member
So lets say that I purchased an item (over $1000) and said item was damaged almost beyond repair upon delivery. I immediately contacted the seller to inform of the condition of the package and its contents. I photographed everything before and after I opened it.

Seller is now telling me that I have to wait for USPS to pay the insurance claim to get my money back...

I know if it were me I would refund the money and then hope (pray) that USPS paid me back. As the seller, I am assuming the risk. Or so I thought?

Am I wrong in thinking this way?

**Update**

So the seller contacted USPS and told me that I have to go to the Post Office and file the claim. How am I supposed supply anything about the original purchase or insurance receipt? The packaging was not sufficient and they are not going to do anything for us. The item was a piece of equipment by the way, not a cue.

So I paid for this piece of equipment that was advertised as "mint" and I got something that needs some work, not much, but I didn't pay for something that needs work. I texted the seller and said, "look, Ill have the motor inspected by a shop and if the motor is in working condition then I can deal with the other issues". I then said, Im not happy with the deal but I would end up selling the machine at a loss. I guess I was trying to give him an opportunity to make this deal right and all he said was "ok".
 
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plshrk22 said:
So lets say that I purchased an item (over $1000) and said item was damaged almost beyond repair upon delivery. I immediately contacted the seller to inform of the condition of the package and its contents. I photographed everything before and after I opened it.

Seller is now telling me that I have to wait for USPS to pay the insurance claim to get my money back...

I know if it were me I would refund the money and then hope (pray) that USPS paid me back. As the seller, I am assuming the risk. Or so I thought?

Am I wrong in thinking this way?
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You are correct.

It's on him to refund you and deal with the insurance issue.

Hoping you paid with a credit card. If so call them and initiate a Chargeback. Theyll take back the money from Paypal and then your seller will be left where he should have been all along. He's responsible for delivery.
 
That's what I was thinking. I'm going to give it until Saturday for him to make it right and then initiate the chargeback.
 
The claim of insurance is filed by the person receiving (the buyer) you need to get the proof of insurance form the seller and take the package to the post office for inspection. The payout for the insurance is to the the person receiving the package, not the mailer.

However, if the package arrives obviously mangled and damaged, can't you just refuse delivery and have it returned to the seller and ask for a refund? Since you never took possession of the item they really can't claim you did anything to the package. I also think you might be able to refuse signing for the package that day and elect to get it at the post office, thereby opening the package in front of witnesses.
 
That's not been my experience. Whenever I have shipped something, and purchased insurance, and something happened (missing or damaged), I as the shipper had to make the claim to get reimbursed. Obviously, I agree that the shipper should refund you, and deal with the damage themselves. Hope you get your money back.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

JasBy said:
The claim of insurance is filed by the person receiving (the buyer) you need to get the proof of insurance form the seller and take the package to the post office for inspection. The payout for the insurance is to the the person receiving the package, not the mailer.

However, if the package arrives obviously mangled and damaged, can't you just refuse delivery and have it returned to the seller and ask for a refund? Since you never took possession of the item they really can't claim you did anything to the package. I also think you might be able to refuse signing for the package that day and elect to get it at the post office, thereby opening the package in front of witnesses.
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It is a rather hazy topic - reading 4 different sources seems to say 4 different things. The one thing that is constant is that providing the packaging for inspection is required for the claim. As the seller, why would you refund the money to the buyer before this step has happened? If they don't help with filing the claim you are screwed.

Please understand I am totally on the fence with this one and can see it from both sides, I am just pointing out that it seems both sides need to work together for the claims process and I can see it going horribly wrong if the seller is just expected to issue a refund and 'deal with the claim' on their own.
 
JasBy said:
It is a rather hazy topic - reading 4 different sources seems to say 4 different things. The one thing that is constant is that providing the packaging for inspection is required for the claim. As the seller, why would you refund the money to the buyer before this step has happened? If they don't help with filing the claim you are screwed.

Please understand I am totally on the fence with this one and can see it from both sides, I am just pointing out that it seems both sides need to work together for the claims process and I can see it going horribly wrong if the seller is just expected to issue a refund and 'deal with the claim' on their own.
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This is where I was bit in the butt as a seller...USPS denied the claim as the buyer wouldn't/didn't do his part in submitting the claim...
 
Insurances are very clear as to who the insured is...and what is covered...and at what level.

This isn't Sam's Shipping, it is a multi billion dollar operation and the failure to set things up right can have huge negatives for the bottom line.

Opine all we want, I bet the answer is clear and easily found, re: both to whom a claim is payable and which party must file the claim.
 
Exactly opposite of how the real world works. Seller always has to initiate because they are the insured.

If i was the seller, i would not refund until the claim was processed, but i would communicate well with the buyer throughout the process. I just dont trust anyone with all the scams out there.



JasBy said:
The claim of insurance is filed by the person receiving (the buyer) you need to get the proof of insurance form the seller and take the package to the post office for inspection. The payout for the insurance is to the the person receiving the package, not the mailer.

However, if the package arrives obviously mangled and damaged, can't you just refuse delivery and have it returned to the seller and ask for a refund? Since you never took possession of the item they really can't claim you did anything to the package. I also think you might be able to refuse signing for the package that day and elect to get it at the post office, thereby opening the package in front of witnesses.
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jcrack_corn said:
Exactly opposite of how the real world works. Seller always has to initiate because they are the insured.

If i was the seller, i would not refund until the claim was processed, but i would communicate well with the buyer throughout the process. I just dont trust anyone with all the scams out there.
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Whenever I have purchased insurance on multiple thousand dollar cues that I am shipping, I always hold the money until the package arrives safe and sound. In the back of my mind I am ready to refund if something happens in shipping or the package is lost. Shipping anything is a risk but it should never fall on the buyer. Why should the buyer have to wait for months to get his money back?

I am more than happy to help with this claim and will take to the PO to investigate but like I said, I don't want to wait months to receive my money back. Nothing against the seller but this product was not packaged properly and that is the cause of the damages. I have saved everything to take to the PO or send back to the seller.
 
I went through this a few years ago. The item was shipped and insured thru USPS.
It was damaged beyond repair during shipment. I tried to file the claim from my
end, but was told by Customer Service that the recipient had to submit the item
and packaging to his post office and file the claim there. A few weeks later he
received a check from USPS. The P.O. kept the damaged goods.
 
Because some buyers are scammers and will swap the cue/item for a cheap one and try to use that for the claim, or just outright lie because they have changed thier mind.

I had to do a several thousand dollar claim with usps in the mid 90s for a laptop and it took many months to be paid..the high dollar claims are investigated and in the real work no one is made whole overnight, some level of vetting the claim (as a buyer, shipper, and carrier) is appropriate

plshrk22 said:
Whenever I have purchased insurance on multiple thousand dollar cues that I am shipping, I always hold the money until the package arrives safe and sound. In the back of my mind I am ready to refund if something happens in shipping or the package is lost. Shipping anything is a risk but it should never fall on the buyer. Why should the buyer have to wait for months to get his money back?

I am more than happy to help with this claim and will take to the PO to investigate but like I said, I don't want to wait months to receive my money back. Nothing against the seller but this product was not packaged properly and that is the cause of the damages. I have saved everything to take to the PO or send back to the seller.
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I stand corrected, thier website says either party can make the claim....thx for the info

Str8PoolPlayer said:
I went through this a few years ago. The item was shipped and insured thru USPS.
It was damaged beyond repair during shipment. I tried to file the claim from my
end, but was told by Customer Service that the recipient had to submit the item
and packaging to his post office and file the claim there. A few weeks later he
received a check from USPS. The P.O. kept the damaged goods.
Click to expand...
 
In the case of a lost shipment, I always refunded immediately and then processed the insurance claim myself. Nothing for the buyer to do.

In the case of damage that needs inspection, if I were the seller I'd find out what is required of the recipient (most likely taking the damaged package to the post office) and then refund.
 
Fob

In government contracting it is dependent on the terms of the contract. The government prefers FOB DESTINATION, meaning the seller is responsible for the deliverable untill it has been accepted by the buyer. FOB ORIGIN would mean that as soon as the transport company picked it up, the responsibility is on the buyer. Being a contracting nerd, everything should be agreed upon up front. Whenthere are ambiguities, anything can happen.
 
The seller has to generate the claim with parcel post shipments i.e.,USPS, FedEx, UPS.
The buyer may have to get involved I can't remember, but the claim is on the seller.
When shipping LTL, the consignee files the claim.

Update:

Doesn't sound right


:smile:
 
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Pass Thru Charges Are What Every Seller Should Use.......

In general business practice, the buyer is entitled to receive the full value of what he bought. Since the buyer and seller both know that shipping is fraught with risk, insurance should have been discussed between the two respective parties prior to sale consummation.

Having said that, it is the seller's responsibility and if insurance was procured, adequate amount or not, the seller has to make the buyer whole and deal with the issues such as 3rd party claims, Furthermore, any insurance that was procured and paid for by the seller legally limits all claims to the seller whom executed the insurance by paying for it and the item's recipient has no legal standing with the shipper as anyone that's received a damaged item will attest.

If the seller wants to make insurance optional, it in no way relieves them of legal responsibility to have to deliver a pool cue as described regardless of the buyer declining to pay more for additional insurance.

The seller has an inherent legal responsibility in a purchase contract to deliver the item purchased undamaged. If it arrives undamaged and is not as described, well, that constitutes a case of fraud and poses entirely different circumstances than what's being discussed.

Anyway, imagine that you purchase furniture and it arrives upon delivery with noticeable damage.......it's the seller's responsibility to resolve the claim with the shipper, not the purchaser of the furniture. Unless something being sold is/was being sold for local pick-up only and it's stated the buyer is/was responsible for shipping and insurance, the seller has to get the item to the buyer undamaged. Ergo and as a court would accordingly adjudicate, the seller can obtain the amount of insurance they deem fit to protect the seller's liability in case the cue was indeed damaged during shipping. The seller also has the option of making the cost of insurance the responsibility of the buyer and quote whatever additional cost they so choose to cover full reimbursement of the buyer's purchase amount in case the cue was damaged during shipping.

This is just basic contract law......."Quid Pro Quo"........and if the buyer does not receive that through no fault of their own, i.e., they did not cause nor contribute to the pool cue's damage, it's the seller's responsibility to make the buyer whole.

However, it becomes a can of worms when the damage cannot be verified since its he said she said scenario....delivery was accomplished without any signed receipt like UPS will do.......the buyer says when they got home the carton was bent but the delivering company has no record of any such damage being reported by the driver, it becomes he said she said.......As long as the seller obtained insurance, if the claim is denied and the delivering company remains steadfast insisting the carton was delivered undamaged, then the seller does not guarantee the outcome of the dispute which is between the purchaser and the delivering company.

While the aforementioned might seem prejudicial towards the seller, it has to remain that way in order to balance the purchase terms that are skewed towards protecting the buyer against damaged goods. The seller does not actually complete delivery and the mere selection of a common carrier does not make them underwrite, nor substitute for, the "availability" of the insurance solely on the buyer's word. Some persons have been known to lie, exaggerate and in fact, have larceny in their hearts and would cheat the seller......maybe they damaged the cue while examining it or the cue rolled off the table or their dog ate the homework......oh, wrong excuse.........but you get the point.

The buyer needs to report the damage to the shipping company and the seller simultaneously but if the shipping company denies the claim because they say the carton arrived safely, well, that's a can of worms. People will post the seller should make the buyer whole....but how.....reverse the purchase but what if a trade was involved and the traded cue was sold........we can add lots of twists to this as you can imagine......but the basic issue would be did the cue arrive undamaged......buyer say the butt was broken, the carton was bent.....delivery company says no way, they left it as a doorway delivery since no one answered the door but the carton was perfect shape......Hmn.

That's why signed receipts limit some of these risks but there's always the potential for problems so buy from ethical sellers, use escrow when the price justifies the additional costs if you're concerned, and Paypal which puts a hold on the seller's funds until the buyer acknowledges receipt of the item as described.....absent that, there are risks to pretty much anything we do when shipping is involved.

Matt B.
 
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