Shocking 1st round results at Turning Stone

Rumors were right

I heard rumors that this tourney,(this time) was going to be especially tough. Of the 5 or so "A" speed amateurs I know, 2 decided not to participate this time. I seen names not far from my speed and wondered why they were there. I don't think they have ANY chance; however I certainly don't consider even them , "bangers."
Rumors were in the wind from mid-august, so I was not surprised a few did not want to play, (heck all they would be able to tak about was killing so&so in the 2nd chance tourney).

Mike Zuglan is a class act all around !! :thumbup:
I have never heard anything negative about him from ANYONE around here. He has a deep & rich history in NY. , and that is he is simply the BEST ! :smile: :smile:
 
fat Albert said:
Yes they are seeding players . Also be reminded of anytime you have lost 9 to 2 many times it could have been 9 to 5 or 6 . they are seeded and the difference between 9 2 and 9 6 is not always that much . however the cream usually rises to the top.
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Mike Zuglan's does seed players. ..never has and never will. He refused to when the APB proposed it
 
Disclaimer: I know nothing of the draw process at this year's Turning Stone.

What sticks out to me is:

How do you possibly do a non-influenced blind draw and have only two of the "top known players" match up in round 1? The odds seem astronomical.

Just an observation...
 
Solomon said:
I respect your opinion, but just about every other sport has seeded tournaments. And in the case of top pool players playing in a double elimination tournament, I'm not even sure that it would matter either way (if it were a 1 and out tournament, it may make a difference). Even if 2 non-professionals play each other in the first round, in which a non-professional is guaranteed to make it into the subsequent round(s). As soon as they match up against one of the pros, it's going to be game over for the non-professional. If the tournament is seeded, it makes it easier to cover the better matches.
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Now the Bar Boxes are a different story. This year in Reno there were at least a dozen amateurs with jobs who defeated a pro along the way. Short races, alternate break, small table. Matt Horner a very strong A player from Oregon beat Canadian pro Brian Butler, Mika Immonen and Sal Butera in a row in the 9 ball event after going 2 and out in 10 ball.

JC
 
well Johnny...

Johnnyt said:
Yep, give the best players a couple of matches head start (seeded) on the rest of field. Makes sense to me. 9-0, 9-1, or 9-2...who wants to watch that? Most of the same guys going 0-2 or 1-2 and out every year. Most have not got a ball better in years, but still they come. Anyone ever tell them when you stop hitting your head against the wall it stops hurting, :rolleyes:. Johnnyt
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In the tournament before this last weekend in the mezz tour, I had pretty much identical draw. Won first two matches then played Rodrigo...

I lost to Rodrigo 9-1 in that tournament, in this one I beat him 7-5.

It's not always a lack of skill that leads to losing bad and getting the experience of playing in more events can often make the difference of being able to perform to your level of capability and performing substantially below that level.

If this is the only event they play in year after year, I'm not surprised by a lack of improvement.

I pretty much only played in the swannee every year and while I usually cashed, I would consistently lose to the top pros that I played by playing far below the level I am capable of rather than by truly being beat.

I think it is wrong to jump to the conclusion that it is lack of ability that these matches went the way they went.

Jaden
 
Maybe at a certain level you can benefit from playing the pros even if you are "dead money" but i can assure you a regular c or b player is just throwing money away.

I once played Buddy Hall for two hrs and you know what i learned from the experience? How to rack and that what was up to that point a good safety wasn't worth spit.

Still had fun though :P
 
Solomon said:
I respect your opinion, but just about every other sport has seeded tournaments. And in the case of top pool players playing in a double elimination tournament, I'm not even sure that it would matter either way (if it were a 1 and out tournament, it may make a difference). Even if 2 non-professionals play each other in the first round, in which a non-professional is guaranteed to make it into the subsequent round(s). As soon as they match up against one of the pros, it's going to be game over for the non-professional. If the tournament is seeded, it makes it easier to cover the better matches.
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As soon as they match up against one of the pros, it's going to be game over for the non-professional.
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That's not true, the PRO is favored but not gauranteed to win, anything can happen, the non pro could play waaay above their head and actually win.

But to match a PRO against a Non Pro on purpose, not randomely is playing favorites, it's not fair. The PRO is a great player conistantly and should have to play just like everyone else, they should not get a first round easier match, where they do not have to play another PRO, they shoud earn it, just like anyone else that wants to win the $$$.

It does not matter what other sports do, the point is that it's wrong, it should not be done, that's my opinion of course, but it makes no sense to me at all......
 
banged up said:
I once played Buddy Hall for two hrs and you know what i learned from the experience? How to rack and that what was up to that point a good safety wasn't worth spit.
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Well, you learned not to play Buddy Hall didn't you?
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
Disclaimer: I know nothing of the draw process at this year's Turning Stone.

What sticks out to me is:

How do you possibly do a non-influenced blind draw and have only two of the "top known players" match up in round 1? The odds seem astronomical.

Just an observation...
Click to expand...

Years ago, Mike Zuglan told me he sent the names of the tournament competitors to AzBilliards and had them do a random draw. Not sure if that is how he handles it now. :)
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
Disclaimer: I know nothing of the draw process at this year's Turning Stone.

What sticks out to me is:

How do you possibly do a non-influenced blind draw and have only two of the "top known players" match up in round 1? The odds seem astronomical.

Just an observation...
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same exact thing when I was looking at the brackets on day 1. It was mind boggling.
 
pletho said:
That's not true, the PRO is favored but not gauranteed to win, anything can happen, the non pro could play waaay above their head and actually win.

But to match a PRO against a Non Pro on purpose, not randomely is playing favorites, it's not fair. The PRO is a great player conistantly and should have to play just like everyone else, they should not get a first round easier match, where they do not have to play another PRO, they shoud earn it, just like anyone else that wants to win the $$$.

It does not matter what other sports do, the point is that it's wrong, it should not be done, that's my opinion of course, but it makes no sense to me at all......
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I'm not debating it but..... The pro is "at work" and the recreational player is just out for recreation. A pro makes his living at these events and had no other income where as the recreational player has a job to go to. This scenario could be debated to death but in my opinion it's not that great of an injustice .I don't see where players are complaining so much that they stop doing it
 
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