Shorter backswing..
- Thread starter clint3612
- Start date
goettlicher said:
buzzsaw said:
Randy, I didn't say "I don't seem to get the needed distance(s) for a complete follow though" I said distance. I realize your not going to get anything else depending on how far the tip goes beyond the CB. I just said my follow through distance is longer than my back swing, that's all.goettlicher said:
Scott, if you were giving lessons to Mini-me (Verne Troyer), would you have him shoot with a shorter cue? If he was short-stroking the ball, would you teach him to drop his elbow to get more stroke on the ball? If he couldn't reach the table, would you have him stand on a box, use a periscope & bridge, or teach him to cut the legs down until he could reach? (Just stuff I've always wondered about. No intention to market pool equipment for height challenged pool playing individuals.)
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buzzsaw said:
Gotcha. Good shooting....SPF=randyg
mikepage said:
Mike...The first one describes the perfect pendulum swing, with a natural finish. The second one describes dropping the elbow, which causes the tip to finish far past a 'natural finish'. That's what I'm talking about, when I say "make followthrough happen"...pushing the cue farther through the CB intentionally. You can do it, but it doesn't make any change in what happens with the CB...so why do it? My position is that since contact is 1/1000th of a second long, dropping the elbow does nothing to enhance the stroke, and is therefore unecessary.
Scott Lee
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmutz
Scott, if you were giving lessons to Mini-me, would you have him shoot with a shorter cue? If he was short-stroking the ball, would you teach him to drop his elbow to get more stroke on the ball? If he couldn't reach the table, would you have him stand on a box, use a periscope & bridge, or teach him to cut the legs down until he could reach? (Just stuff I've always wondered about. No intention to market pool equipment for height challenged pool playing individuals.)
Just stuff I've always wondered about. No intention to market pool equipment for height challenged pool playing individuals.)
lol, Dont you think its rediculous to expect a player to grab the very end of the cue when the same people will talk about how important balance is?
taller people with longer arms need a longer cue, Same as in golf, a club to short will result in poor fundamentals. or trying to wear shoes thats to tight, all your doing is constraining yourself.. Why dont you play one of these "experts" with them using just the shaft, hey you can grab the very end right? thats how it feels to a tall guy using a toothpick, yet they are expected to play fundamentaly correct, why do I even bother... oooooooooo brother.
SPINDOKTOR
Originally Posted by bsmutz
Scott, if you were giving lessons to Mini-me, would you have him shoot with a shorter cue? If he was short-stroking the ball, would you teach him to drop his elbow to get more stroke on the ball? If he couldn't reach the table, would you have him stand on a box, use a periscope & bridge, or teach him to cut the legs down until he could reach? (Just stuff I've always wondered about. No intention to market pool equipment for height challenged pool playing individuals.)
Just stuff I've always wondered about. No intention to market pool equipment for height challenged pool playing individuals.)
lol, Dont you think its rediculous to expect a player to grab the very end of the cue when the same people will talk about how important balance is?
taller people with longer arms need a longer cue, Same as in golf, a club to short will result in poor fundamentals. or trying to wear shoes thats to tight, all your doing is constraining yourself.. Why dont you play one of these "experts" with them using just the shaft, hey you can grab the very end right? thats how it feels to a tall guy using a toothpick, yet they are expected to play fundamentaly correct, why do I even bother... oooooooooo brother.
SPINDOKTOR
spindoktor...I don't think anybody is arguing that taller people MAY benefit from a longer cue, but that it is far from mandatory. My position is that taller people can still play effectively with a regular length cue...they just have to hold the cue in a different place. It has absolutely nothing to do with the cue's "balance point". You keep mentioning playing with a 'toothpick', but the weight of the cue has nothing to do with the length. A taller player might feel more comfortable with a 21oz cue vs. an 18oz cue. It's all in how they are able to swing the cuestick through a natural pendulum swing. You used Shaq as an extreme example, and I noted that I'd already successfully worked with tall players (6'5") who used a regular length cue (58"-59").
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
S
Snoogi
Guest
I think an earlier post somewhere stated that the tools gotta be similar or something close to make reasonable comparison..difference in a few inches is still fine but not extreme as in between a full cue and just the shaft..or toothpick..JMO.SPINDOKTOR said:
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I think if you are shortening your backstroke because you feel you are losing control of your stroke, you should just shorten your bridge and still take as full a stroke as your bridge length will allow. For me, when I shorten my backstrokes, it causes muscle tension and causes me to play tentatively. Just try to relax and let your stroke out, eventually your stroke will groove itself on a straight path.
I can't argue that no additional action on the CB occurs with an xagerated follow through but for me this is the only way I've found to stroke through the ball. Otherwise I feel I'm punching it. Therefore with this added motion I do get additional action and accuracy via a better stroke.Scott Lee said:
The same kind of motion Ray Martin had on the stroke JohnnyP pointed out.
I've heard that a karate guy breaking a board he aims past the board. The board is broke but the fist or foot continues way past the breaking stage.
Hope this makes sense. We talked about it in my lesson.
pooltchr said:
Considering the source, ill just laugh...
Then again, like I said earlier I may swing by to talk with Scott, may Challenge him to a game, and If he were to beat me then Id consider taking some lessons, so practice up buddy, the Doktor is comming to town... SPINDOKTOR
JohnnyP said:
Well I did watch that video.
Ray's stroke?
Old school perfect. Get's through his cueball in great shape. Nothing that I had never watched before. It was interesting about the elbow drop statement. Ray tries to tell the people the correct way although he does drop his elbow on a few follow shots. It's a #3 elbow drop so it dosen't mean much for Ray.
Wish I could run as many balls as Martin still does....SPF=randyg
S
Snoogi
Guest
I shorten a paragraph from a book (pool player's edge)..quick fixes-swing. There're 6 headings, I'll just extract 2..
Loosing control: The primary reason players lose control over the cue stick as they attempt a shot is pulling back too far on the cue before their delivery. To correct an errant backswing, shoot a few racks with a very short bridge so that you can't pull the cue back as far (too far will pull your cue off your bridge). You'll gain quick control over your cue. You can then slowly work your way up to a longer backswing without loss of control, until you arrive in your comfort zone.
Crossing over: Most players, even pros, have abit of crossover in their strokes, which they've learned to compensate for with slight aiming and cueing adjustments. Begin every practice session and match with a few long straight in shots using a center ball hit. This method is called finding center ball (it seems easy theoretically), and it forces you to check your body to make sure you're delivering the stroke you want.
There was a very short period I pull back very far about 12 inches bridge gripping the butt end, I've adjusted back to normal..
Not sure about others but the above methods did helped me in some ways..
Loosing control: The primary reason players lose control over the cue stick as they attempt a shot is pulling back too far on the cue before their delivery. To correct an errant backswing, shoot a few racks with a very short bridge so that you can't pull the cue back as far (too far will pull your cue off your bridge). You'll gain quick control over your cue. You can then slowly work your way up to a longer backswing without loss of control, until you arrive in your comfort zone.
Crossing over: Most players, even pros, have abit of crossover in their strokes, which they've learned to compensate for with slight aiming and cueing adjustments. Begin every practice session and match with a few long straight in shots using a center ball hit. This method is called finding center ball (it seems easy theoretically), and it forces you to check your body to make sure you're delivering the stroke you want.
There was a very short period I pull back very far about 12 inches bridge gripping the butt end, I've adjusted back to normal..
Not sure about others but the above methods did helped me in some ways..
Thank you Randy for the comment. What's a level 3 drop? Like 0 is no drop, 10 is to the floor?
Did you ever see his hand come toward his chest? It just goes straight forward.
I sometimes forget to take my cell phone out of my chect pocket, and I've launched it onto the table a couple times.
Did you ever see his hand come toward his chest? It just goes straight forward.
I sometimes forget to take my cell phone out of my chect pocket, and I've launched it onto the table a couple times.
clint3612 said:
The best advice I ever got was concerning rhythm.
The second best advice came from Tony Robles. He said: "WHATEVER YOU DO, MAKE SURE THAT YOUR FINAL STROKE COMES BACK TO SAME EXACT PLACE AS YOUR HAND DID ON YOUR FINAL PRACTICE STROKE.
My advice: Now if you take loose practice strokes, letting your arm come back to a point where everything seems natural on your final practice stroke, you will find that this point may be over reached on your final stroke because it is TOO long. If you go beyond that natural point, your wrist will begin to twist and all kinds of weird shit may happen.
I apologize for giving out one of Tony's secrets, so I will add that he has been the best instructor that I have had. Well worth my money.