shot quiz

Bottom right all the way. I'd never play to put the cb on the same side as the 8 unless I had to. Place the cb in a spot that gives you a thick enough cut to come to the side without the 8 ball. The degree of cut you need on the 7 varies from player to player. I also think trying to follow to the side without the 8 ball is a jitter bug risk because of how close the 7 sits to the short rail.

Dave
 
 

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Jude Rosenstock said:
In my opinion, the only correct shot is going off the side-rail with bottom right english. It's the simplest and most predictable approach to getting shape on the 7. Is it touchy? Sure. You have to avoid the side-pocket but the 6 is slightly off the rail, this shouldn't be very difficult to do. With the 6 closer/on the rail, perhaps you'll have to give yourself a smaller angle (right handed players will need to stretch) but you should still be able to draw past the side pocket and get shape.

I know this isn't the most fun position in the world but if you want to compete, you have to be comfortable with drawing off that rail and avoiding the scratch. Every other position-route here may have a smaller scratch percentage but also dramatically lowers your chances of running out.


If banking the 6 is remotely considered, it's because you need to work on your draw. That's simply not a good shot to play and completely wrong if you're playing on tight equipment. Yes, it can work but your success-rate is compromised.

Going forward with inside is out of the question too. It's too wild. You're going to cross the width of the table twice and hope to get an angle you can work with? It can be done but not consistently. If the 8ball were somewhere else, this route is perfectly reasonable but you can't even play for the bottom right corner which means you're going to have to juice it up a little more and hope for something else. This is a route you play when your desperate. You have BIH, you're in control. Make your decisions accordingly.

Using just follow is also problematic. You're forcing through the 6 and creating a new angle. It's perfectly reasonable to bend too much and not get the desired angle or not bend at all and leave yourself really long. Regardless, you're working harder than you need to.
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Clearly the best choice .... If you don't get out from that position, it's time to go bowling. :smile:
 
I agree with the simple draw/spin shot coming off the side rail and across the table for position on the 7-ball in the top right pocket. Putting the CB about a diamond out from the side rail and about two diamonds up from the end rail makes it easily reachable even for medium-sized people. Any decent player should be able to draw (with right spin) the CB a diamond or two below (to the right of, in the picture) the side pocket from that starting position.
 
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I've since tried various options people have posted and nothing comes close to drawing back with a smidge of right.

Follow with left - position is far to difficult I found to avoid having the 8 blocking the 7. I tried smashing the crap out of it to come 6 rails, past the 8, onto the bottom short rail and again to the bottom long rail and I can't make it. I came up short 3 out of 5 attempts and was left with a safe on the 7. I don't like those odds one bit.

Pure follow - my speed of the shot was crucial. I hit it 2 hard twice and it curved a little too much leaving me a very tough cut on the 7. I didn't hit it hard enough just the once and was left with long shot on the 7. It gave me a nice angle on the 7, and I did infact run out but it was harder than it should have been. Wouldn't have liked the shot on the 7 one bit in a match situation.

Draw with lots of left - for this the 6 has to be touching the rail (which I assumed it was for all shots). I tried coming over to the other long rail and having some spin transfered to bring me closer to the 7. Speed was tough. I left plenty of angle on the 6 and over ran quite a bit. On other attempts the spin was lost and didn't transfer to the long rail leaving me a long or even no shot on the 7.

Slight draw - I got desperate and tried zig zagging from long rail to long rail desperately trying to avoid scratching. No one should ever try this method, ever! You rely on luck, and its better just to pocket the 6 and play safe.

Cross bank - my banking isn't the strongest. Add that in with 4 inch pockets and I made 1 of 5. :( if you are a top banks player then this becomes a plausible option. If you are a top banks player you should be quite familiar with how to draw a CB back 5ft :) anyone that would choose this over drawing back in a match needs to give me their dealers number...seriously.

I ran out 5 of 5 times drawing back with a little right. Each time not even coming close to scratch; I didn't hit it hard enough to reach the bottom long rail but if I did I would have been no where near the side pocket.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
In my opinion, the only correct shot is going off the side-rail with bottom right english. It's the simplest and most predictable approach to getting shape on the 7. Is it touchy? Sure. You have to avoid the side-pocket but the 6 is slightly off the rail, this shouldn't be very difficult to do. With the 6 closer/on the rail, perhaps you'll have to give yourself a smaller angle (right handed players will need to stretch) but you should still be able to draw past the side pocket and get shape.

I know this isn't the most fun position in the world but if you want to compete, you have to be comfortable with drawing off that rail and avoiding the scratch. Every other position-route here may have a smaller scratch percentage but also dramatically lowers your chances of running out.


If banking the 6 is remotely considered, it's because you need to work on your draw. That's simply not a good shot to play and completely wrong if you're playing on tight equipment. Yes, it can work but your success-rate is compromised.

Going forward with inside is out of the question too. It's too wild. You're going to cross the width of the table twice and hope to get an angle you can work with? It can be done but not consistently. If the 8ball were somewhere else, this route is perfectly reasonable but you can't even play for the bottom right corner which means you're going to have to juice it up a little more and hope for something else. This is a route you play when your desperate. You have BIH, you're in control. Make your decisions accordingly.

Using just follow is also problematic. You're forcing through the 6 and creating a new angle. It's perfectly reasonable to bend too much and not get the desired angle or not bend at all and leave yourself really long. Regardless, you're working harder than you need to.
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100% agree.

I tend to hit that shot pretty soft will maximum spin. I think hitting it softer allows the spin to grab more, and avoids the scratch in the side.
 
I totally agree with what Jude R. said in his post. Just put the cb in the triangle formed by the 6, the 9, and the last w of www. in the logo in the diagram. Anywhere in that triangle that you can reach and the draw should be automatic with a little right english. The cb should come up past the side pocket and go to the lower rail with no problem.

If you can not do this shot easily, time to practice it. Start with just using a smooth draw stroke. The harder you hit it, the less angle you will get off the first rail.
 
Pidge said:
I've since tried various options people have posted and nothing comes close to drawing back with a smidge of right.

Follow with left - position is far to difficult I found to avoid having the 8 blocking the 7. I tried smashing the crap out of it to come 6 rails, past the 8, onto the bottom short rail and again to the bottom long rail and I can't make it. I came up short 3 out of 5 attempts and was left with a safe on the 7. I don't like those odds one bit.

Pure follow - my speed of the shot was crucial. I hit it 2 hard twice and it curved a little too much leaving me a very tough cut on the 7. I didn't hit it hard enough just the once and was left with long shot on the 7. It gave me a nice angle on the 7, and I did infact run out but it was harder than it should have been. Wouldn't have liked the shot on the 7 one bit in a match situation.

Draw with lots of left - for this the 6 has to be touching the rail (which I assumed it was for all shots). I tried coming over to the other long rail and having some spin transfered to bring me closer to the 7. Speed was tough. I left plenty of angle on the 6 and over ran quite a bit. On other attempts the spin was lost and didn't transfer to the long rail leaving me a long or even no shot on the 7.

Slight draw - I got desperate and tried zig zagging from long rail to long rail desperately trying to avoid scratching. No one should ever try this method, ever! You rely on luck, and its better just to pocket the 6 and play safe.

Cross bank - my banking isn't the strongest. Add that in with 4 inch pockets and I made 1 of 5. :( if you are a top banks player then this becomes a plausible option. If you are a top banks player you should be quite familiar with how to draw a CB back 5ft :) anyone that would choose this over drawing back in a match needs to give me their dealers number...seriously.

I ran out 5 of 5 times drawing back with a little right. Each time not even coming close to scratch; I didn't hit it hard enough to reach the bottom long rail but if I did I would have been no where near the side pocket.
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Your results appear to be identical to what I stated earlier in this thread. Thanks for giving all of the options a try. I know for some players out there, this isn't a very comfortable situation. Everyone has different physical attributes and some of those attributes can limit your options. Personally, I think if you don't feel comfortable playing this with bottom right because you're short, you have to get a longer cue, an extender or learn to shoot left-handed. This has to be in your arsenal. This example happened to be a wide-open table with only minor difficulty. There are layouts that will absolutely force you to take this route (personally I feel this one does) and if you're expectations are high, you have to be able to execute it.
 
HawaiianEye said:

Not trying to pick a fight, but I would bet that if you had ten top pros set this shot up, not a single one would play it the way you have it diagramed unless they were showing off a little. Too many rails, too much cb travel, too much need for speed control. All these factors increase the chances of failure, and failure on that line can be devastating.
By using a thick enough cut to allow enough draw/right spin to avoid the side scratch, your only worry here is going long or short with a speed control failure, but going long or short with this line still puts you in a "playable" spot. With the line you show, going short could leave you either behind the 8, 50 yard line underneath, or 50 yard line on top.
Using the rails is always good advice, but anytime you add additional rails and increase the distance your cb need to go, you only multiply the odds against you.
When I'm watching somebody play/practice trying to judge their speed, things I look for are where the player places the cb with ball in hand, and how they tend to play variations of this exact shot. And if they ALWAYS go with inside English/follow, even when they don't need to, I'll usually draw my wooden sword.
DISCLAIMER: I've been known to misjudge a player on more than one occasion.:thumbup:

Dave
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BeiberLvr said:
100% agree.

I tend to hit that shot pretty soft will maximum spin. I think hitting it softer allows the spin to grab more, and avoids the scratch in the side.
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That's dead-on accurate. Hitting it softer does two things. For one, it gives the draw a little more opportunity to take effect before contacting that first rail AND when it does contact that rail, it'll grab more. Softer is better so long as it's hard enough to cross the middle of the table. Another fine advantage to taking the softer route is, if you're unsure about avoiding the scratch, you can eliminate the possibility by simply not reaching that second rail. If you're confident about where you're going to contact that second rail, then you can play to get perfect and then you get to see players like Mika rack for you.
 
keep it simple

I agree with Jude. My only contribution is that type of equipment and table size makes a difference. If this was a bar box and I was feeling any sense of doubt about the cross side I wouldn't hesitate to just play short of the side and cut the 7 in. On a 9 foot diamond with tight pockets I have a bigger positional target to shoot at and am less likely to overrun and end up with a thin cut, etc. Point is that size matters.

And his other point- some of these ideas are fun, but they aren't practical. Banks? Five railers? Even if I play short of the side on a diamond there is simply no way I'm going to miss a cut on the 7 as often as you're going to get in to trouble with these approaches. I love the creativity, but if the solution to the problem has more chance for error than the original problem it's time to accept a little less excitement and go with the boring route. Like he said, if this is truly the right percentage play for you then now you know where to practice.
 
AtLarge said:
I agree with the simple draw/spin shot coming off the side rail and across the table for position on the 7-ball in the top right pocket. Putting the CB about a diamond out from the side rail and about two diamonds up from the end rail makes it easily reachable even for medium-sized people. Any decent player should be able to draw (with right spin) the CB a diamond or two below (to the right of, in the picture) the side pocket from that starting position.
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Shot it a bunch of times tonight. Draw is not even necessary; right spin alone suffices. I'm sure my first-time choice in a game, however, would have been some of both.
 
I would shoot the 6 and go 3 or 4 rails from what ever angle i felt comfortable with. My objective with be to go a couple rails between the 8 and 9 to the bottom rail. Leaves more room for error which leaves more pocket options. Most scenarios I saw were for playing the 7 in the bottom corner. Not always best to leave yourself a one pocket option. If your comfortable playing rails and angles. Play for two or three pocket options. That way if you come up short or long you have another option and can stroke more freely.
 
The obvious shot is what Jude is saying BUT it does not gaurantee an out. It looks simple, but there is LOTS of room for error. You need to be precise with your draw off the rail, or you will overshoot the shot or undershoot the shot. More often than not, if you are not real familiar with a table, you will over shoot this shot and leave yourself a backward cut which sucks...............

Shooting with top left and med plus speed will get you where you need to be in 3 rails and in a natural angle for not only the 7 ball, but it will set you up for a good angle on the eight also.........after you make the 7.

I would shoot this shot all day long, try it, you will see what I mean, it's more predictable than the draw shot, which looks easy and it's the first option most see, but it's not in my opinion a guaranteed out shot. The follow 3 rails shot has to be hit real bad to get screwed up.....

I guess the options could change depending on the type of table, a bar table, a ninefoot table, an 8 foot table a 6 foot table or a 10 foot table.........

Follow is so much more predictable......... and more accurate.......
 
pletho said:
The obvious shot is what Jude is saying BUT it does not gaurantee an out. It looks simple, but there is LOTS of room for error. You need to be precise with your draw off the rail, or you will overshoot the shot or undershoot the shot. More often than not, if you are not real familiar with a table, you will over shoot this shot and leave yourself a backward cut which sucks...............

Shooting with top left and med plus speed will get you where you need to be in 3 rails and in a natural angle for not only the 7 ball, but it will set you up for a good angle on the eight also.........after you make the 7.

I would shoot this shot all day long, try it, you will see what I mean, it's more predictable than the draw shot, which looks easy and it's the first option most see, but it's not in my opinion a guaranteed out shot.

Try the 4 rail it has large margin for error also.Place cb 3" from spot high left.
Long rail.end rail opp.side rail.back to first rail.Try it! 6FOOT7FOOT9FOOT HUUP
1BANANNA....:D
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Edge to A and Left visual Sweep monte!! bank it out!! just kidding not really but you dont even need the english.

Give yourself a 15 degree angle and hit 3 tips of Draw. Little Joe Villapondo would be proud.

Or put the CB on the same long rail and hit the 4 railer in between the 9 and 8.
 
I like playing this with inside 3 rails, focusing on coming off the 3rd rail only a little bit and settling for a slightly longer shot on the 7 in the upper right corner. If I over hit the ball by a mile, the cue ball ends up in reasonable shape in the middle of the table. If I under hit the ball I just end up with a slightly longer shot, maybe a little jacked up on the rail. In any case, I am guaranteed a natural angle to get to the 8.

I wouldn't pick the outside english shot because I am right handed and will have to reach for the shot and there is a lot that can go wrong such as getting a poor or too little of an angle while jacked up on the rail or scratching. Under pressure, these situations tend to betrays us the most often. With inside, all I have to do is make the 7, which I will (and in the unlikely event I do miss, its a natural 2 way), so there is no reason not to take that path over a slightly riskier path.
 
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Am I missing something here? I'm right handed, and only 5'6" on a good day, and I would have no problems shooting this shot with low/right spin.

Are some of you guys thinking the 9-ball is the CB?
 
BeiberLvr said:
Am I missing something here? I'm right handed, and only 5'6" on a good day, and I would have no problems shooting this shot with low/right spin.

Are some of you guys thinking the 9-ball is the CB?
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Put it on video :thumbup:

I'm 5'9 and I have to pretty much lay on the table to stroke in the shot. Maybe I'm doing it completely wrong, so lets see the vid :)

Wow I didn't think a shot would drum up such conversation and differing opinions lol!
 
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