Should a scratch on the 8 be a loss?

[3andstop]

Pocketing the 8 on the break is a win, and pocketing it out of turn is a loss. Simple rules with a simple explanation.

8 ball wasn't a game played as much in a pool room as it was on the little peanut bar tables. On those tables, if an object ball went in you couldn't get it back, so, there aren't too many other choices for outcomes without paying full price to get one ball back on the table.

I haven't played on a bar table in a million years. Last time I did, the cue ball was oversized. You all know better what they do these days.

If you are able to recover object balls, then I think the rule is foolish given the ratio of slate to canyons on those little bar tables. If you still can't get the OBs back without paying for an entire other game, then its a pretty easy decision to make. Regardless, I would have to vote that the rules remain consistant on both bar and full size tables for league purposes. So, the bar table dictates the mandates.

 

[DelaWho???]

For me its part of the game....inbedded really...part of a decent 8 ball safety involves a pocket begging for the cue ball ect....

Although I get and agree with the greater point of the thread that a win should be won and not given as a rule.But then again as a rule,scratching on the 8 is a loss given the rules...in other words..play 9 ball lol.

For me scratching on the 8 is a loss.Period.Its just built into the game and must be anticipated or exploited as such.

(I voted loss btw )

I won a tourney match once by leaving a scratch shot on the 8 for my opponent. I took both racks this way. My opponent was super pissed being the favorite to win.
I also voted for loss of game, it puts added weight on the game winning ball and added pressure on the shooter. You'll get guys dogging the 8 because they are worried about a scratch loss. That added little juice makes the game more exciting.

As for balls dropped on the break determining which set you play, I favor the play what drops rule. I actually think it decreases the break and run chance. If you don't like what was dropped on the break, you must have 1)a bad leave for that set or 2)problem balls or 3) the other set is laid out better.

Banger McCue

 

[CreeDo]

When we do league on bar tables, the table stays open so you don't have to pay to get back a ball. Dunno if I agree with changing rules just to accomodate equipment, especially silly bar tables ... rules and equipment are supposed to change according to what people want. The equipment isn't supposed to dictate to us how to play.

 

[3andstop]

When we do league on bar tables, the table stays open so you don't have to pay to get back a ball. Dunno if I agree with changing rules just to accomodate equipment, especially silly bar tables ... rules and equipment are supposed to change according to what people want. The equipment isn't supposed to dictate to us how to play.

As I said, I haven't played on a bar table in many yrs so I don't know what the heck they are like today.

It wouldn't be changing the rules to accomodate the equipment, rather it would be having to maintain the current rules since the equipment restricts the ability to change the rules.

All I do know is "IF" the majority of bar tables (during league play) require paying to get balls back, then the league rules don't have room for many options unless they want to vary rules from bar to bar. I mean, the 8 could go in early multiple times and I'm sure no one is going to want to pay for it to come out over and over.

All I'm saying is that's the original reason for the rules regarding the 8 and the reason it remains. (although I don't think there is another game in pool with such a wide variation in house rules, excluding league play of course as 8 ball has.)

Personally I think it would make for a better game if the 8 were spotted, but it may not be fair to people used to one way and having to change should they get to Vegas or whatever finals they attend.

 

[8-Ball Player]

If your opponent is good enough he should be able to run the rest of the table, figureing that all of your balls are out of the way, scince your on the 8. Giving your opponent a ball in hand is pretty close to a loss because if HE is on the 8 ball as well, then you have lost. I dont like when there are so many rules against the 8, like....Foul and you lose, scratch and you lose, miss and you lose. If there are none of these rules on the 8 it makes them take more risks, which could conclude in a better winning shot made.

My 2 cents.

 

[matcase]

I think a scratch on the eight should be a loss only if the eight is pocketed on the same stroke. Otherwise, opponent should get ball in hand.

 

[FLICKit]

I think a scratch on the eight should be a loss only if the eight is pocketed on the same stroke. Otherwise, opponent should get ball in hand.

Playin a bit of devil's advocate here. Talk about the rules changing for the 8 ball! It's inconsistent to say spot the 8 when knocked in early, and also scratch on the 8 is not a loss just ball in hand to opponent. BUT, if you do both, make the 8 and scratch, now the rules change and it is a loss.

If you're being consistent there, then the 8 should spot, and the opponent should have ball in hand, since that's what would happen if both events happened but not during the same shot.

In other words to ask some of the same questions as others have but slightly different, why should someone be penalized less for scratching on the 8 ball, just because you lacked the skills to make the 8? Or thus, why should you be penalized more because you scratched on a shot where you actually made the ball (8 in this case)?

 

[MrLucky]

I find it hilarious.......

That some of the folks that say here a scratch on the eight should not be a loss and on other post they say that the eight on the break should not be a win! (is this just to make the game easier?)

I believe in the original 8 ball rules a scratch on the eight is a LOSS! and the 8 on the Break is a WIN!

 

[skins]

the break was always meant as a benefit for the breaker and in no way should they be penalized for any ball action after the break as long as no foul is committed. 8 goes in on the break you should win imo. if it had to be spotted after the break i'd like to see the choice of when it's spotted, after the break or after the intial run, be the choice of the breaker after the break. that could make things interesting.

 

[CreeDo]

lucky: maybe it's hilarious when people say "a rule shouldn't change because it's always been this way!"

It probably seems silly to you that some people that anyone would want to change rules about stuff like 8 on the break, which might happen 1 in 30 times if you're really lucky... it's so rare, someone has to be a real pansy to complain about it, right?! But these days with all the 8 ball leagues, those rare things probably happen every day and can change whether a team makes it to vegas or not, or whether they pull away a lot of $$.

Also, I bet the rules you grew up with and like so much aren't the very first rules of 8 ball, they're probably changed from whatever the 'original' rules were... you might be playing a candyass 'easier' version of 8 ball too (how can it be easier if both players benefit equally, by the way?)

 

[MrLucky]

Lol!

lucky: maybe it's hilarious when people say "a rule shouldn't change because it's always been this way!"

It probably seems silly to you that some people that anyone would want to change rules about stuff like 8 on the break, which might happen 1 in 30 times if you're really lucky... it's so rare, someone has to be a real pansy to complain about it, right?! But these days with all the 8 ball leagues, those rare things probably happen every day and can change whether a team makes it to vegas or not, or whether they pull away a lot of $$.

Also, I bet the rules you grew up with and like so much aren't the very first rules of 8 ball, they're probably changed from whatever the 'original' rules were... you might be playing a candyass 'easier' version of 8 ball too (how can it be easier if both players benefit equally, by the way?)

Sounds like I touched a nerve ! huh? I don't think you will find another version of early 8 ball The folks I learned from had been playing it that way for years, as far as League I play APA and have done so since its inception ! I spoke my feelings and you are welcome to speak yours !

 

[CreeDo]

haha sorry, I probably seem very touchy about it. I'm not, at least not on this rule. I do think winning or losing from a break is silly in any game though.
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